AFL experience as a coach

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Feb 14, 2017
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He must have started playing at age 40.
 

Jack_1870

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Oct 21, 2015
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Channel 9 have a policy that you can not commentate on the Ashes unless you actually played in an Ashes series (with the exception of Mark Nicholas)
Look how that worked out,we were left with insipid and boring commentators like Michael Clarke and other relics from a bygone era.
We could of been listening to Gerard Whateley,Isa Guha ,Alison Mitchell,Ricky Ponting,all far superior to aforementioned.
It would be foolish and narrow minded to think only a coach with AFL experience can coach.
 

ChrisHunt313131

Team Captain
Oct 9, 2016
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I respect Cornes’ view and think it could be a factor to an extent when things going badly - but I don’t see it an issue at Brisbane due to Fagan being a respected football manager for a long period before becoming senior coach. Jury out on Bolton but hope he can turn the Blues around.
 

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Aug 14, 2001
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Probably helps to relate to players if you’ve played at the top level. Guys like Clarko and Bevo were never stars and could probably relate pretty well to the blokes on the fringe worried about getting their next contract.

I have no doubt there’s potential for a great coach who never played like in other codes but given it’s the norm in AFL I wonder if it’s something that sits in the back of players’ minds.
 
Aug 25, 2005
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Was it Tony Lockett who said the opinions of people who never played in the AFL are worthless?

Until someone like Bolton leads a club to a premiership, doubts will remain in some quarters.

Coach|Club(s)|Career|M|W|L|D|Win %|Best
\Fagan, Chris|Br|2017-2018|37|8|29|0|21.6|16th*
\Bolton, Brendon|Ha,Ca|2014-2018|64|19|45|0|29.7|14th
\McCartney, Brendan|WB|2012-2014|66|20|46|0|30.3|14th
\Riley, Mark|Me|2007|9|3|6|0|33.3|caretaker
\Craig, Neil|Ad,Me|2004-2013|177|93|84|0|52.5|3rd
\Brittain, Wayne|Ca|2001-2002|46|18|28|0|39.1|6th
\Kinnear, Col|Sy|1989-1991|66|23|42|1|35.6|7th
\Todd, John|WC|1988-1989|45|20|25|0|44.4|5th
\Hammond, Bob A.|Sy|1984|8|3|5|0|37.5|caretaker
\Cahill, John|Co,PA|1983-1998|91|46|43|2|51.6|4th
\Jordon, Ray|NM|1976|1|0|1|0|0.0|fill-in
\Thomas, Hughie|St|1944-1945|38|8|28|2|23.7|9th
\Cassidy, Jim|WB|1926|8|1|7|0|12.5|sacked
\Melling, Ted|Fi|1919|9|4|4|1|50.0|caretaker
\Brown, Vic|Un|1913|18|0|18|0|0.0|10th
\Hickinbotham, Dave|Ge|1910-1911|36|18|16|2|52.8|5th
\Strickland, Bill|Co|1904-1908|13|8|5|0|61.5|3rd
\Worrall, John|Ca,Es|1902-1920|279|165|110|4|59.9|5 flags
Yeah, I know, SANFL etc. Don't want to start an argument about the definition of "top level" here.
I don't recall Lockett ever saying that.

I do recall him.
Channel 9 have a policy that you can not commentate on the Ashes unless you actually played in an Ashes series (with the exception of Mark Nicholas)
Look how that worked out,we were left with insipid and boring commentators like Michael Clarke and other relics from a bygone era.
We could of been listening to Gerard Whateley,Isa Guha ,Alison Mitchell,Ricky Ponting,all far superior to aforementioned.
It would be foolish and narrow minded to think only a coach with AFL experience can coach.
Bad analogy.

There comes a point in sport, when you're being asked to do things that are somewhat unnatural and put yourself in positions that put you at extreme risk.
There are also times when your coach questions your ability and even your commitment.

These are the times when players, will have the thought creep into their minds that "what does this bloke know? He never even played."

Up until that point, it's not a problem.
 
So Kane Cornes thinks Brendan Bolton not playing at the highest level is a giant elephant in the room when it comes to his coaching.

Without turning this into a discussion about Bolton himself, do you actually think not playing AFL is a serious issue for any AFL level coach?

Me personally I don’t think so. Obviously it’s not footy but in the NBA you’ve got Greg Popovich who’s one of the greatest coaches ever, never played a single NBA minute. Then in soccer you’ve got Jose Mourinho who never played at the highest level but did learn off some all time greats. I think that as long as you have good mentors, you can motivate players and you understand the game well you can succeed.

One of my mates makes the argument that footy is different because you’re asking blokes to run through a wall for you basically and how is any AFL player going to listen to the words of someone who hasn’t experienced it in the AFL.

I think in the future we’ll probably see more coaches coming from less traditional backgrounds as we realise that a lot of players turn out to be rubbish coaches.



Thoughts?
Neil Craig (ADEL), Chris Fagan (BRIS), Allan Joyce (HAW) - three AFL coaches, 2 of who enjoyed success and as far as I know they did not play at the highest level, while Fagan is proving to be the missing link at Brisbane
 

blitzer

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 27, 2006
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Its an interesting one. I'd say its definitely possible to be a good coach without playing AFL. That said if you are coaching a bottom team and stuck in the doldrums for years on end, it could start to become an additional issue. It could also mean that players lose confidence in their coach a bit quicker "what would he know, he's never played AFL" type thinking.

Overall I'd say its a slight weakness, that can definitely be overcome.
 

big_e

Existential crisis management consultant
Apr 28, 2008
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Was it Tony Lockett who said the opinions of people who never played in the AFL are worthless?

Until someone like Bolton leads a club to a premiership, doubts will remain in some quarters.

Coach|Club(s)|Career|M|W|L|D|Win %|Best
\Fagan, Chris|Br|2017-2018|37|8|29|0|21.6|16th*
\Bolton, Brendon|Ha,Ca|2014-2018|64|19|45|0|29.7|14th
\McCartney, Brendan|WB|2012-2014|66|20|46|0|30.3|14th
\Riley, Mark|Me|2007|9|3|6|0|33.3|caretaker
\Craig, Neil|Ad,Me|2004-2013|177|93|84|0|52.5|3rd
\Brittain, Wayne|Ca|2001-2002|46|18|28|0|39.1|6th
\Kinnear, Col|Sy|1989-1991|66|23|42|1|35.6|7th
\Todd, John|WC|1988-1989|45|20|25|0|44.4|5th
\Hammond, Bob A.|Sy|1984|8|3|5|0|37.5|caretaker
\Cahill, John|Co,PA|1983-1998|91|46|43|2|51.6|4th
\Jordon, Ray|NM|1976|1|0|1|0|0.0|fill-in
\Thomas, Hughie|St|1944-1945|38|8|28|2|23.7|9th
\Cassidy, Jim|WB|1926|8|1|7|0|12.5|sacked
\Melling, Ted|Fi|1919|9|4|4|1|50.0|caretaker
\Brown, Vic|Un|1913|18|0|18|0|0.0|10th
\Hickinbotham, Dave|Ge|1910-1911|36|18|16|2|52.8|5th
\Strickland, Bill|Co|1904-1908|13|8|5|0|61.5|3rd
\Worrall, John|Ca,Es|1902-1920|279|165|110|4|59.9|5 flags
Yeah, I know, SANFL etc. Don't want to start an argument about the definition of "top level" here.
Can we have the list of great AFL/VFL players who have been s**t coaches, too?
 
Can we have the list of great AFL/VFL players who have been s**t coaches, too?
One stand out at Geelong was Polly Farmer. Unbelievably great and ground breaking player, but an appalling coach; was more concerned about the horses and his bets than anything on the field.

An interesting question (probably already posed, but I haven't scanned every post) - What would / could an Alistair Clarkson achieve with the current Carlton team???
 
Jan 19, 2008
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The best project managers tend to have never done the job, they know how to put together a team of professionals, use there relevant expertise and lead/manage to complete the task.

Can concur, I am a project manager. Have successfully managed lots of projects where I had no clue about the actual work.

Coaching/management/leadership is a different skill. How many people do you know who were good at their job so got made manager and are terrible at managing people?
 

Blueyboy74

Club Legend
Aug 17, 2009
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In itself maybe not but it's a tough gig for an untried coach to head to a club with the worst list in the league, a veterinarian come Football Manager, a List Manager with question marks at previous role, Assistant coaches without many runs on the board, an invisible President and a young CEO previously in charge of commercial sales at his former club. Not saying it won't work but would think an untried coach with no AFL playing history would be far less risky with proven, experienced support surrounding him.
 

Plat

All Australian
Jan 24, 2018
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Says a lot about the playing group if they choose not to play hard because the coach has no AFL experience.
 

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Occidental

Club Legend
Oct 2, 2016
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Neil Craig (ADEL), Chris Fagan (BRIS), Allan Joyce (HAW) - three AFL coaches, 2 of who enjoyed success and as far as I know they did not play at the highest level, while Fagan is proving to be the missing link at Brisbane
Allan Joyce was no star player, but he did manage 49 senior games for Hawthorn.
He then moved to the VFA and captain coached Preston to back to back flags.
 

yeahmate

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Jun 9, 2006
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Senior coach needs to command respect from the playing group. Much more likely to get respect initially from a bunch of footballers if the coach was a good player himself so I reckon Bolton would have been behind the 8-ball to start with and have to win respect other ways instead. Doesn't help when you're not winning though
 

Ron The Bear

Up yer arse, AFL
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Can we have the list of great AFL/VFL players who have been s**t coaches, too?

Hall of Fame players with worse coaching records than Bolton

Coach|M|W|L|D|Win %|Club(s)|Career
\Murray, Kevin|34|0|34|0|0.0|Fi|1963-1964
\Dixon, Brian|44|6|37|1|14.8|NM|1971-1972
\Hart, Royce|53|8|45|0|15.1|WB|1980-1982
\Foote, Les|36|5|30|1|15.3|St|1954-1955
\Smith, Ross G.|22|3|17|2|18.2|St|1977
\Fitzmaurice, Tom|26|6|20|0|23.1|Ge,NM|1928-1934
\Coventry senior, Syd|36|8|26|2|25.0|WB|1935-1937
\Ditterich, Carl|44|11|33|0|25.0|Me|1979-1980
\McKenna, Guy|88|24|64|0|27.3|GC|2011-2014
\Cazaly, Roy|82|22|58|2|28.0|Sy,Ha|1922-1943
\Watson, Tim|44|12|31|1|28.4|St|1999-2000
\Baldock, Darrel|62|18|44|0|29.0|St|1987-1989
 

big_e

Existential crisis management consultant
Apr 28, 2008
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Hall of Fame players with worse records than Bolton

Coach|M|W|L|D|Win %|Club(s)|Career
\Murray, Kevin|34|0|34|0|0.0|Fi|1963-1964
\Dixon, Brian|44|6|37|1|14.8|NM|1971-1972
\Hart, Royce|53|8|45|0|15.1|WB|1980-1982
\Foote, Les|36|5|30|1|15.3|St|1954-1955
\Smith, Ross G.|22|3|17|2|18.2|St|1977
\Fitzmaurice, Tom|26|6|20|0|23.1|Ge,NM|1928-1934
\Coventry senior, Syd|36|8|26|2|25.0|WB|1935-1937
\Ditterich, Carl|44|11|33|0|25.0|Me|1979-1980
\McKenna, Guy|88|24|64|0|27.3|GC|2011-2014
\Cazaly, Roy|82|22|58|2|28.0|Sy,Ha|1922-1943
\Watson, Tim|44|12|31|1|28.4|St|1999-2000
\Baldock, Darrel|62|18|44|0|29.0|St|1987-1989
You will earn yourself a spot in the BF HoF one day, Ron.
 
Senior coach needs to command respect from the playing group. Much more likely to get respect initially from a bunch of footballers if the coach was a good player himself so I reckon Bolton would have been behind the 8-ball to start with and have to win respect other ways instead. Doesn't help when you're not winning though
If they didn't respect the fact he'd been part of Hawthorns success then the issue ain't Bolts

Kornes just going with his usual s**t for clicks, gotta have an opinion on everything to be in the footy media these days, and if you don't have one, make one up
 
Allan Joyce was no star player, but he did manage 49 senior games for Hawthorn.
He then moved to the VFA and captain coached Preston to back to back flags.
Thanks. Should have Google searched before posting
 
May 8, 2007
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vic
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Probably the ultimate 'Coach who never played' is Alan Jones. Sure, you might think he's a complete **&%#$**, but he's obviously very smart and charismatic. He didn't have a great sporting background, but when he was a teacher, he coached the school rugby teams.

He got the job as NSW Rugby Union Manager in the early 80s - I think it may have been a voluntary position, as Union was still (technically) amateur.

He then got the gig coaching the local Manly side, that went on to win the comp. (No mean feat, considering that Randwick were a de-facto NSW side and had won 5 or 6 in a row and would go on to win most of the premierships after Jones left Manly).

Jones then got the job Coaching Australia. They won the Grand Slam against the British teams in 1984 (never been done by an aussie team before) and won the Bledisloe in NZ. Later on, he had a year coaching Balmain in the NRL, which wasn't a success.
 
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