News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[danster168]

melbourne have had 7 father son selections in the last 25 years.

yeah, rookies and tokens. we're the least advantaged club in the league on this front. 1 highly rated f/s 15 years ago and 0 nga's (1 stolen). And Viney wasnt a top 5 prospect

Our flag was legit. Only fitting that it was against the gifted dogs.

 

[mpal6]

how about my dees? 1 father/son and 0 nga's in 25 years. and 1 taken away from us in Mac Andrew so back to 0.

and yep the dogs and lions are the 2 clubs who have both had crazy advantages. u really think Dees will get 2x number 1 picks in the next 50 years? 0 chance. 200 years is accurate.

I've already said Father Son is potluck. It's hard to make an argument for any club on that front. Lions were running empty for 20 years before netting 3 in quick succession. Dees were robbed of Mac Andrew I agree - you should've got him.

Your argument of 2xAshcrofts was the sole reason we won premierships is another fallacy in my view. I've just highlighted the fact that someone else got a better hand than us and it didn't guarantee anything. Dogs continued to add one more father son in Jordan Croft as well but the needle didn't move for them in terms of finals or premiership.

I'd concede that the father son is a nice icing on the cake for us which has been baking for a while. Our benefit came in the shape of all the 18/19/20 year olds who we recently drafted turning out not only pretty good but able to play finals, perform at a high level and hold their own. That goes beyond the 3 father sons and into the wider group from open draft like Wilmot, Lohmann, Morris etc.

You won't get much argument from me if you go down the path of "oh but if you paid more here for player X, then you won't be able to draft player Y". That's the rules which were put on table by AFL and we followed it.

 

[danster168]

I've already said Father Son is potluck. It's hard to make an argument for any club on that front. Lions were running empty for 20 years before netting 3 in quick succession. Dees were robbed of Mac Andrew I agree - you should've got him.

Your argument of 2xAshcrofts was the sole reason we won premierships is another fallacy in my view. I've just highlighted the fact that someone else got a better hand than us and it didn't guarantee anything. Dogs continued to add one more father son in Jordan Croft as well but the needle didn't move for them in terms of finals or premiership.

I'd concede that the father son is a nice icing on the cake for us which has been baking for a while. Our benefit came in the shape of all the 18/19/20 year olds who we recently drafted turning out not only pretty good but able to play finals, perform at a high level and hold their own. That goes beyond the 3 father sons and into the wider group from open draft like Wilmot, Lohmann, Morris etc.

You won't get much argument from me if you go down the path of "oh but if you paid more here for player X, then you won't be able to draft player Y". That's the rules which were put on table by AFL and we followed it.

yeah, but if your club didn't know that they were getting gifted 2x no.1 picks plus a first rounder in fletcher, then you wouldn't have been able to take some higher upside picks like Logan Morris as you would've needed more mids.

Let's say the Dees got given Harley Reid and Sam Lalor for super cheap i.e.the level that Brisbane got gifted, imagine the doors that it would open up for us. We could take higher upside swings at the draft, bring in players in free agency because they see a bright future, we can get aggressive at the trade period knowing that we have 15 years of service locked in. We could open up salary cap space because we have 3 rookie contracted best 22 player. Like it's an absolute joke and I was the first person on Bigfooty to repeatedly say that the Father/son and nga nonsense needed to go, like about 15 years ago for the f/s. And I was about 15 years ahead of the curve because now people are finally realising that it's ruined the comp.

So take out Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher, and say a Logan Morris and 1-2 senior players and you guys are a 6-10 team. It's far beyond just the players that you got for cheap. On the flip side add Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher and Morris to 10 teams in the afl and they all surpass you guys on the ladder.

You really think it's a coincidence that the teams near the top of the ladders are those most benefited from the awful system. Coll/Dogs/Gold Coast and Brisbane.

 

[mpal6]

yeah, but if your club didn't know that they were getting gifted 2x no.1 picks plus a first rounder in fletcher, then you wouldn't have been able to take some higher upside picks like Logan Morris as you would've needed more mids.

Let's say the Dees got given Harley Reid and Sam Lalor for super cheap i.e.the level that Brisbane got gifted, imagine the doors that it would open up for us. We could take higher upside swings at the draft, bring in players in free agency because they see a bright future, we can get aggressive at the trade period knowing that we have 15 years of service locked in. We could open up salary cap space because we have 3 rookie contracted best 22 player. Like it's an absolute joke and I was the first person on Bigfooty to repeatedly say that the Father/son and nga nonsense needed to go, like about 15 years ago for the f/s. And I was about 15 years ahead of the curve because now people are finally realising that it's ruined the comp.

So take out Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher, and say a Logan Morris and 1-2 senior players and you guys are a 6-10 team. It's far beyond just the players that you got for cheap. On the flip side add Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher and Morris to 10 teams in the afl and they all surpass you guys on the ladder.

You really think it's a coincidence that the teams near the top of the ladders are those most benefited from the awful system. Coll/Dogs/Gold Coast and Brisbane.

Every decade there is one system or event that enables whoever staying on top end up staying there longer. Consider Hawks threepeat phase or Geelong or Richmond running steady on top - there was Gold Coast and GWS launch, with top picks draft gold robbed off teams who needed the most sitting at the bottom of the ladder - Lions being one of them.

Similarly when Gold Coast and GWS had the revolving door phase - the teams down south benefited from it on a regular basis. Even you got Steven May out of it, I can make a list of players/picks that got shifted down which led to a talent transfer back to Victorian teams. Again, not a peep, since the talent drain is happening in the right direction - north to south - it's good for the game. No big noise, just musing around why AFL is knowingly losing money on a failed mission.

The moment benefit started flowing upstream and Lions or Gold Coast (thanks to Hardwick) or sydney teams start gaining, the steady crescendo has built up over the last few years. It didn't even start when Jamarra or Sam Darcy happened - the precision around this complaints are quite amusing to be honest.

I'm looking forward to Tassie phase now, coz whoever is at the bottom is going to feel that bottom of the ladder phase a bit longer thanks to Tassie plundering the drafts in succession and creating a new wave across where the picks/players are going to land.

 

[danster168]

Every decade there is one system or event that enables whoever staying on top end up staying there longer. Consider Hawks threepeat phase or Geelong or Richmond running steady on top - there was Gold Coast and GWS launch, with top picks draft gold robbed off teams who needed the most sitting at the bottom of the ladder - Lions being one of them.

Similarly when Gold Coast and GWS had the revolving door phase - the teams down south benefited from it on a regular basis. Even you got Steven May out of it, I can make a list of players/picks that got shifted down which led to a talent transfer back to Victorian teams. Again, not a peep, since the talent drain is happening in the right direction - north to south - it's good for the game. No big noise, just musing around why AFL is knowingly losing money on a failed mission.

The moment benefit started flowing upstream and Lions or Gold Coast (thanks to Hardwick) or sydney teams start gaining, the steady crescendo has built up over the last few years. It didn't even start when Jamarra or Sam Darcy happened - the precision around this complaints are quite amusing to be honest.

I'm looking forward to Tassie phase now, coz whoever is at the bottom is going to feel that bottom of the ladder phase a bit longer thanks to Tassie plundering the drafts in succession and creating a new wave across where the picks/players are going to land.

We got Steven May by handing over pick 6. So we actually used fair trade value. We didn't get him for cheap.

What system kept Richmond, Hawks and Geelong at the top?

Mentioning Gold Coast and GWS launch is totally irrelevant. We're talking about good teams being gifted flags and success with multiple pick 1's. We're not talking about lower teams being disadvantaged. That's a complete seperate issue and I think you know that hence changing the topic.

The dogs being gifted what they've got and not winning a flag is a disgrace. The Pies winning them with Darcy Moore, Daicos x 2, Quaynor etc. is what teams should do with that level of good fortune. The lions are doing what they are expected to do.

If we scrapped it all together or allowed 1 f/s or NGA pick every 15 years then it would be a much more even comp.

And no doubt the AFL corrupt. They should've handed us compensation for the Mac Andrew debacle.Not getting Mac Andrew has cost us 1 flag, a top 5 draft pick and years trying to find a key defender replacement. Absolute bs

 

[Atomboy]

1GWS GiantsAaron CadmanOriginally North Melbourne's pick, traded to GWS
.2Brisbane LionsWill AshcroftFather-Son selection (matched North Melbourne's bid).
3North MelbourneHarry Sheezel
4North MelbourneGeorge WardlawOriginally Essendon's pick.
5EssendonElijah Tsatas

He was rated a clear #1 pick, GWS obviously couldn’t be bothered bidding on him.

 

[mpal6]

We got Steven May by handing over pick 6. So we actually used fair trade value. We didn't get him for cheap.

What system kept Richmond, Hawks and Geelong at the top?

Mentioning Gold Coast and GWS launch is totally irrelevant. We're talking about good teams being gifted flags and success with multiple pick 1's. We're not talking about lower teams being disadvantaged. That's a complete seperate issue and I think you know that hence changing the topic.

The dogs being gifted what they've got and not winning a flag is a disgrace. The Pies winning them with Darcy Moore, Daicos x 2, Quaynor etc. is what teams should do with that level of good fortune. The lions are doing what they are expected to do.

If we scrapped it all together or allowed 1 f/s or NGA pick every 15 years then it would be a much more even comp.

And no doubt the AFL corrupt. They should've handed us compensation for the Mac Andrew debacle.Not getting Mac Andrew has cost us 1 flag, a top 5 draft pick and years trying to find a key defender replacement. Absolute bs

You handed over pick 6 for co-captain Steven May and Kade Kolodjashnij. It was a contracted Steven May so Gold Coast could've shut up shop if you didn't. May was a major defensive pillar in your 2021 premiership. Directly due to you benefiting from a talent drain out of an expansion club. You can dress it up in whatever terms but it was a Victorian club benefiting from interstate outpost club unable to hold on to their players.

Richmond was similar - Prestia and Lynch propping up their premiership years - it was timely when they both crossed over to provide top talent coverage for Richmond. They were keen to move and Richmond did all they can to have them. Well played, got their triple premiership along the way.

Geelong ? I'll stop at Jezza Cameron - I won't bother keep listing everyone they are able to attract every year. It's credit to their list management team and the targeted way they go after players who would be more than certain to come across to them.

Hawks were more in reference to able to stay on top longer as the talent went in big chunks to expansion clubs. Bottom clubs during that window stayed down for longer. Hawks traded players in the interim just like we are doing - bringing in Hale, Lake etc to keep that premiership window open much longer during mid-2010s. I'd say the other clubs who could've added some elite talent to challenge them properly missed it due to top talents all funneled away i.e addition of Gold Coast and GWS. I see the same now happening during Tasmania's add. Whoever is at the bottom will struggle longer to rebuild during Tasmanis's initial years - just like Lions did during 2010-2018 years.

 

[mpal6]

He was rated a clear #1 pick, GWS obviously couldn’t be bothered bidding on him.

Wardlaw was the consensus top pick that year, if not for hamstring concerns and go home factor.

 

[danster168]

You handed over pick 6 for co-captain Steven May and Kade Kolodjashnij. It was a contracted Steven May so Gold Coast could've shut up shop if you didn't. May was a major defensive pillar in your 2021 premiership. Directly due to you benefiting from a talent drain out of an expansion club. You can dress it up in whatever terms but it was a Victorian club benefiting from interstate outpost club unable to hold on to their players.

Richmond was similar - Prestia and Lynch propping up their premiership years - it was timely when they both crossed over to provide top talent coverage for Richmond. They were keen to move and Richmond did all they can to have them. Well played, got their triple premiership along the way.

Geelong ? I'll stop at Jezza Cameron - I won't bother keep listing everyone they are able to attract every year. It's credit to their list management team and the targeted way they go after players who would be more than certain to come across to them.

Hawks were more in reference to able to stay on top longer as the talent went in big chunks to expansion clubs. Bottom clubs during that window stayed down for longer. Hawks traded players in the interim just like we are doing - bringing in Hale, Lake etc to keep that premiership window open much longer during mid-2010s. I'd say the other clubs who could've added some elite talent to challenge them properly missed it due to top talents all funneled away i.e addition of Gold Coast and GWS. I see the same now happening during Tasmania's add. Whoever is at the bottom will struggle longer to rebuild during Tasmanis's initial years - just like Lions did during 2010-2018 years.

Yeah, we handed over pick 6, a very good pick for Steven May. It was either May or Ben King. Why are you talking about offering up pick 6 for Steven May when Brisbane cough up picks in the 20's for a pick 1? lol. Embarrassing to even compare.


Did Rich get Presita and Lynch for free? That's news to me. Did Geelong get Jeremy Cameron for free? What are you even talking about! You've literally just proven my point. Normal teams get better by paying reasonable value at the draft or trade. Brisbane just get gifted father/sons by the afl who conveniently waited until they'd cashed in before changing the ridiculous rules.