AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[BringBackTorps]

Daily Telegraph J. Halloran 19.3.19

Halloran, a sports' journalist & winner of the Walkley Award (a prestigious award for journalism), is a self-described NRL fan, long term resident of Sydney, & mother of several children in Auskick & jnr GR RL in Sydney.

She states:-

. "there is a real disconnect between the NRL & the grassroots", whilst enrollments in Club Auskick are rising strongly.

. "From my experience as a mum, it is clear Auskick is light years ahead, & Rugby League is being left behind...".

."Where we live, the AFL via Auskick has well & truly won the trust of many parents. It is not Penrith, but it was once a rugby league first 'burb".

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Can be done if they pick the right location. Not sure about the groundsman, but he can always be sacked and replaced by someone more pleasant.They already did that before the start of last season (sack the Australian Football hating former groundsman) - that's why the GABBA playing surface was...

www.bigfooty.com

(Scroll to my post #477)

A similar pattern is occuring for GR club AF in the Gold Coast- Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor (excluding the Ipswich District RL comp.). In this corridor, GR jnr & snr AF Club, & school comps. AF, have either overtaken RL in 2020- or will do so very shortly.

In Greater Brisbane, male contact RL nos. have collapsed (excluding Ipswich District RL comp.).
In 2020, in the Rugby League Brisbane Juniors comp. (RLBJ), the QRL stated, for U6-U12, there were only c. 5000 players, in 498 teams (& c.10%+ of these 5000 players are enrolled in the RL clubs' non-contact tag comp.). C. 5000 is extraordinarily low for Greater Brisbane, pop. c.2.1m.

For further info. on the RLBJ comp. U13-18 team nos., which are FAR more dismal & shocking than the U6-U12 RLBJ nos., see this link below

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Seems to me that RL has had a large influx of Pacific Islanders / Kiwis. All the big stars when I lived in Sydney were Australians/ Aboriginals. The diversity of player type has changed. Maybe this is good for the growth of the game not sure. AFL is/was the best footy code in OZ.

www.bigfooty.com

(Scroll to my post#110)

 

[BringBackTorps]

Daily Telegraph P. Rothfield 3.8.20

Rothfield said, re the NRL

"Poker machine funding is dying. Licenced clubs that were once handing over $7m grants to prop up their footy teams can no longer afford to do it...".

Play Nice - 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

Something for the RL trolls to think about! https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-audience-plummets-by-more-than-1-million-since-restart-20200725-p55fdn.html NRL audience plummets by more than 1 million since restart By Adrian Proszenko and Sam Phillips July 26, 2020 — 10.51am The NRL has...

www.bigfooty.com

(Then scroll to my point 3)

Many NRL clubs & GR RL clubs in Qld., NSW, & ACT rely very heavily on their affiliated licenced clubs to survive- any slashing of these funds would imperil them.

Many AFL clubs & GR AF clubs also rely on poker machines to survive- but not to the same extent as the NRL & many GR RL clubs.





wwos.com P. Gould 4.9.19

Gould said, mainly referring to some NRL clubs in Sydney

"...the majority of our clubs trade in a position of insolvency. Most lose money, many are supported by poker machine money from private clubs, whose days are numbered (he was probably referring to statistics that poker machine gambling has, generally, a much older demographic). 2 minutes 18 seconds- 2 mins. 36 secs.

He also said "GWS will become a juggernaut....". 4 mins. 45 secs.- 5 mins 30 secs.





Whilst the Broncos are a financial powerhouse & could survive without its pokies, Gold Coast Titans, Nth. Qld. Cowboys., & many Qld. GR RL clubs may be threatened- due to most poker machine revenues coming from an ageing demographic.

 

[madmug]

Daily Telegraph P. Rothfield 3.8.20

Rothfield said

"Poker machine funding is dying. Licenced clubs that were once handing over $7mgrants to prop up their footy teams can no longer afford to do it"..

Play Nice - 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

Something for the RL trolls to think about! https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-audience-plummets-by-more-than-1-million-since-restart-20200725-p55fdn.html NRL audience plummets by more than 1 million since restart By Adrian Proszenko and Sam Phillips July 26, 2020 — 10.51am The NRL has...

www.bigfooty.com

(Then scroll to my point 3)

Many NRL clubs & GR RL clubs in Qld., NSW, & ACT rely very heavily on their affiliated licenced clubs to survive- any slashing of these funds would imperil them.

Many AFL clubs & GR AF clubs also rely on poker machines to survive- but not to the same extent as the NRL.

On your last point, many GR ARF in Qld, NSW & ACT have relied on income from pokies.

They've never had large crowds so needed other income streams to attract players from 'down south' & run their clubs.

Pokies arrived in QLD some 30 years or so ago. many clubs became cashed up at that time. Not so sure their going all that well now.

On that point, not sure how that affects SA clubs, but WA & Tas clubs don't have them, so one would think thats a part of the reason they've seen such falls in salary caps, as crowds have fallen. Probably worse with Covid 19 effects.

 

[Freomaniac]

On your last point, many GR ARF in Qld, NSW & ACT have relied on income from pokies.

They've never had large crowds so needed other income streams to attract players from 'down south' & run their clubs.

Pokies arrived in QLD some 30 years or so ago. many clubs became cashed up at that time. Not so sure their going all that well now.

On that point, not sure how that affects SA clubs, but WA & Tas clubs don't have them, so one would think thats a part of the reason they've seen such falls in salary caps, as crowds have fallen. Probably worse with Covid 19 effects.

If you are talking about South Australia.

The SANFL clubs heavily rely on pokies.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The NSW LNP govt. has a Lower House majority, & also an Upper House Majority (with support of the cross benches), in its plan to introduce a compulsory Pre-Commitment Card for any one who wants to gamble on poker machines in NSW.

The social cost of pokie gambling in Australia has been estimated to be $4.7b pa (not including the many billions lost by pokie gamblers in Aust. every year).
Poker machines are, deliberately, heavily overrepresented in the lowest socio-economic areas- they cause massive harm.

"Gamblers across the State [NSW] lost $2.17b to poker machines from June 2020 to November 2020... Punters in Western Sydney lost the most cash..."

" Why does NSW have 10% of the world's pokies?".
(See last link below for full quotes, my post#3435).

Cash will no longer be able to be used on pokies by any one, anywhere in NSW- only the Card (which will have photo ID) will be able to operate the machines.

The Card will have to be applied for by gamblers from the NSW govt., & the gambler must nominate the maximum amount he is willing to lose- once over the loss amount, the Card automatically prevents any further gambling on poker machines in NSW.
Relatives can apply to the govt. to have their family members, who have a history of former large losses, banned from being issued a Card.

Experts have predicted that the Card will slash the amount of overall gambling on pokies, & thus the huge profits of the pokie Clubs.

Many NRL clubs in NSW & Qld. (& possibly NRL Raiders) are very heavily reliant on funds from their affiliated poker clubs to survive.
Slashing the revenues & profits (huge % derived from pokies!) of pokie clubs may be an existential threat to many NRL clubs.

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Thanks for that. It looks like the numbers have been pretty stable for the three codes between 2016 and what the 2020 line up of teams was going to be pre-Covid. in essence the code of AF is stronger than what it has been for some time due to GWS involvement, but not as strong as what it was...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#286).

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Bullshit. I might listen if you offer up an actual clinical opinion from a medical or psychological expert, but I won't be convinced by some BF random. Why? If pokies are so harmless, the size of the establishment shouldn't matter. Utter trash. You've failed to actually read my opinion and...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#303)

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

A few more results like this weekend and I might be shifting to NRL :(

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post #340, point 2)

A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

1. This is a Doctoral Thesis presented by Dr K. Perry in 2017 to Western Sydney University. WARNING: Very long read. Some light holidays' reading, involving the creation of GWS, & its strategies, & challenges, to build, over time, a large fan base in WS. WS has a high % immigrant & working...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#3435)

 

[RUNVS]

The NSW LNP govt. has a Lower House majority, & also an Upper House Majority (with support of the cross benches), in its plan to introduce a compulsory Pre-Commitment Card for any one who wants to gamble on poker machines in NSW.

The social cost of pokie gambling in Australia has been estimated to be 4.7b pa (not including the many billions lost by pokie gamblers in Aust. every year).

" Gamblers across the State [NSW] lost $2.17b to poker machines from June to November 2020" (See last link below).

Cash will no longer be able to be used on pokies by any one- only the Card (which will have photo ID) will be able to operate the machines.

The Card will have to be applied for by gamblers from the NSW govt., & the gambler must nominate the maximum amount he is willing to lose- once over the loss amount, the punter can no longer gamble on any machines in NSW.
Relatives can apply to the govt. to have their family members, who have a history of former large losses, banned from being issued a Card.

Experts have predicted that the Card will slash the amount of overall gambling on pokies, & thus the huge profits of the pokie Clubs.

Many NRL clubs in NSW & Qld. (& possibly NRL Raiders) are very heavily reliant on funds from their affiliated poker clubs to survive.
Slashing the revenues & profits (mainly derived from pokies) of pokie clubs may be an existential threat to many NRL clubs.

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Thanks for that. It looks like the numbers have been pretty stable for the three codes between 2016 and what the 2020 line up of teams was going to be pre-Covid. in essence the code of AF is stronger than what it has been for some time due to GWS involvement, but not as strong as what it was...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#286).

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Bullshit. I might listen if you offer up an actual clinical opinion from a medical or psychological expert, but I won't be convinced by some BF random. Why? If pokies are so harmless, the size of the establishment shouldn't matter. Utter trash. You've failed to actually read my opinion and...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#303)

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

A few more results like this weekend and I might be shifting to NRL :(

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post #340, point 2)

A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

1. This is a Doctoral Thesis presented by Dr K. Perry in 2017 to Western Sydney University. WARNING: Very long read. Some light holidays' reading, involving the creation of GWS, & its strategies, & challenges, to build, over time, a large fan base in WS. WS has a high % immigrant & working...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#3435)

Don't care too much about the Rugby League implications but that is great news. I mean I would rather poker machines and gambling advertisements get banned outright but this is a step in the right direction.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Rusted on league losers will outrate AFL surely

 

[Aussie in exile]

Don't care too much about the Rugby League implications but that is great news. I mean I would rather poker machines and gambling advertisements get banned outright but this is a step in the right direction.

Yep. COUNTRYWIDE i would like to see all pokie machines removed from ALL CLUBS and if sport teams go to the wall from ANY SPORT so be it

 

[madmug]

Yep. COUNTRYWIDE i would like to see all pokie machines removed from ALL CLUBS and if sport teams go to the wall from ANY SPORT so be it

Problem is that the pubs will pick up the patrons from clubs.

About the only 'value' of pokies in clubs is that the profit goes into the sports clubs, not some pub owners pocket or some big conglomerate which owns whole chains of pubs.

I think the card system will help the problem gamblers & this will cause a reduction in the numbers of pokies everywhere.

 

[TheKITC]

Imagine if the Lions had enjoyed the consistent success of the Storm, even with that success the Storm barely register on the radar in Melbourne.

Come again? The Storm are a well entrenched and popular side. Sure the media doesn't cover NRL even 5% of what it does AFL here, but they've got plenty of support.

4th highest membership in the league last year, 4th highest average home attendance (2019, because COVID).

Fantastic club in spite of how 'grassroot' NRL folk treat them like a red headed step-son. In a lot of ways, they are the envy of a lot of or most other clubs.

 

[madmug]

You’ll find that is only the people in NSW who have spent the past 20 years hating Greg Inglis, Cam Smith, Cooper Cronk & Billy Slater

Bit like the Victorian attitude to West Coast Eagles I guess.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Come again? The Storm are a well entrenched and popular side. Sure the media doesn't cover NRL even 5% of what it does AFL here, but they've got plenty of support.

4th highest membership in the league last year, 4th highest average home attendance (2019, because COVID).

Fantastic club in spite of how 'grassroot' NRL folk treat them like a red headed step-son. In a lot of ways, they are the envy of a lot of or most other clubs.

4th in the league for attendances eh? What was their home average, 15k-18k?

 

[Freomaniac]

The Fury and GCU were busts but for Gold Coast cash wasn't the issue it was their Jabba the Hutt owner. The main issue in all this was later expansion sides coming.

1) The second Melbourne team should have always been South Melbourne (what have Heart/City ever done aside from become Melbourne Lite and Easy?).

2) WSW should have come in before the Giants came into the AFL which would have helped with the next TV rights deal.

3) Canberra and Tasmania should have had teams after the Asian Cup in 2015 which would have been a decent boost to the TV deal.

4) The third Victorian side should have been Geelong/Vic Country and if Western United last 5 years I'll give anyone who likes this post $100.

5) And while I'll hold off on Macarthur for now I still think Wollongong should have gotten in over them.


Expansion was crucial for the sport and the FFA/A-League f’ed it royally every single time because they wanted to play it safe or they cared about "metrics". Seriously fu** David Gallop if he gets another gig as the boss of a major sporting code I hope they fall into oblivion considering what's happening to League and Soccer right now.

I agree with most of this....

I wanted Gold coast united to Stay in the A-league as it would of still be 2 queensland sides.

Again.... I didnt mind what the FFA did around that 2013-17 period.

Again.... that 40 million a year in TV money was enough to Fund all 10 teams.

I wouldnt mind a Canberra Team in the A-league. They could share the same ground as the ACT brumbies and Canberra raiders. Tamania would also have suitable grounds too.

I always wanted for the A-league to go from 10 teams with 27 rounds to 14 sides in which each opponent has their 13 opponents twice or a 26 round season.

Also I think This West Melbourne or Western united side will survive more than 5 seasons.

 

[TheKITC]

4th in the league for attendances eh? What was their home average, 15k-18k?

I'm not sure what your point is? League average is ~15k (massively propped up by the Broncos), theirs was ~18k. The stadium they play in only holds 30k.

 

[Freomaniac]

Problem is that the pubs will pick up the patrons from clubs.

About the only 'value' of pokies in clubs is that the profit goes into the sports clubs, not some pub owners pocket or some big conglomerate which owns whole chains of pubs.

I think the card system will help the problem gamblers & this will cause a reduction in the numbers of pokies everywhere.

Again... I don't mind both of these.

I don't mind SANFL clubs owning pubs and pokies at their stadium or just outside of it. At least it goes to the SANFL clubs pockets than a corporate company.

I don't mind a card system.... A limit of $50 a day.

Don't get me wrong I play the occasional pokie machine but never drop $50 or a $100 note for the hell of it. Rather buy a pub meal and a drink instead

 

[Bring-Back-Powell]

Not a chance.

The Queenslanders I came across haven’t even heard of Australian Rules Footy.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

I'm not sure what your point is? League average is ~15k (massively propped up by the Broncos), theirs was ~18k. The stadium they play in only holds 30k.

18 whole K? In Melbourne? Soon they'l be demanding use of the G.

That's after 20+ years and countless premierships/top 4 finishes and being the only NRL team in Vic, sorry mate that is ordinary.

 

[TheKITC]

18 whole K? In Melbourne? Soon they'l be demanding use of the G.

That's after 20+ years and countless premierships/top 4 finishes and being the only NRL team in Vic, sorry mate that is ordinary.

I think you are getting very confused by trying to compare AFL with NRL, apples and oranges. It's far from ordinary in NRL.

By your line of thought though, Hawthorn averaged 31k at home in a stadium that holds 100k in 2019, 10th in the AFL and only marginally better than teams like Melbourne, St. Kilda and the Dogs. Even after all of their years of premierships/top 4 finishes. They must be an ordinary club yeah?

 

[Lip Gallagher]

I think you are getting very confused by trying to compare AFL with NRL, apples and oranges. It's far from ordinary in NRL.

By your line of thought though, Hawthorn averaged 31k at home in a stadium that holds 100k in 2019, 10th in the AFL and only marginally better than teams like Melbourne, St. Kilda and the Dogs. Even after all of their years of premierships/top 4 finishes. They must be an ordinary club yeah?

Stadium size has absolutely nothing to do with it, the Storm are the only NRL side in Australias second largest city, they have had success up the ying yang and are still irrelevant in Melbourne, when and if they start cellar dwelling their tiny supporter base will likely halve, of course the NRL cannot afford for that to happen.

 

[Madas]

S

The NSW LNP govt. has a Lower House majority, & also an Upper House Majority (with support of the cross benches), in its plan to introduce a compulsory Pre-Commitment Card for any one who wants to gamble on poker machines in NSW.

The social cost of pokie gambling in Australia has been estimated to be $4.7b pa (not including the many billions lost by pokie gamblers in Aust. every year).
Poker machines are, deliberately, heavily overrepresented in the lowest socio-economic areas- they cause massive harm.

"Gamblers across the State [NSW] lost $2.17b to poker machines from June 2020 to November 2020... Punters in Western Sydney lost the most cash..."

" Why does NSW have 10% of the world's pokies?".
(See last link below for full quotes, my post#3435).

Cash will no longer be able to be used on pokies by any one, anywhere in NSW- only the Card (which will have photo ID) will be able to operate the machines.

The Card will have to be applied for by gamblers from the NSW govt., & the gambler must nominate the maximum amount he is willing to lose- once over the loss amount, the Card automatically prevents any further gambling on poker machines in NSW.
Relatives can apply to the govt. to have their family members, who have a history of former large losses, banned from being issued a Card.

Experts have predicted that the Card will slash the amount of overall gambling on pokies, & thus the huge profits of the pokie Clubs.

Many NRL clubs in NSW & Qld. (& possibly NRL Raiders) are very heavily reliant on funds from their affiliated poker clubs to survive.
Slashing the revenues & profits (huge % derived from pokies!) of pokie clubs may be an existential threat to many NRL clubs.

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Thanks for that. It looks like the numbers have been pretty stable for the three codes between 2016 and what the 2020 line up of teams was going to be pre-Covid. in essence the code of AF is stronger than what it has been for some time due to GWS involvement, but not as strong as what it was...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#286).

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

Bullshit. I might listen if you offer up an actual clinical opinion from a medical or psychological expert, but I won't be convinced by some BF random. Why? If pokies are so harmless, the size of the establishment shouldn't matter. Utter trash. You've failed to actually read my opinion and...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#303)

Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

A few more results like this weekend and I might be shifting to NRL :(

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post #340, point 2)

A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

1. This is a Doctoral Thesis presented by Dr K. Perry in 2017 to Western Sydney University. WARNING: Very long read. Some light holidays' reading, involving the creation of GWS, & its strategies, & challenges, to build, over time, a large fan base in WS. WS has a high % immigrant & working...

www.bigfooty.com

(See my post#3435)

Sorry I may have missed part of the thread but is this card a real thing that is legislated and ready for rollout or still a concept ?

 

[madmug]

S

Sorry I may have missed part of the thread but is this card a real thing that is legislated and ready for rollout or still a concept ?

It'll be a miracle if it happens. The pokies lobby has had a strangle hold on NSW politics like forever.

It showed its reach when the Tasmanian opposition ran the last election on a policy of reigning in the pokies. They pumped millions into the election against 'free choice' & the 'anti jobs' rubbish.

They swamped the media, drowning out any real policy discussion or about anything else!

 

[BringBackTorps]

1.

Sorry I may have missed part of the thread but is this card a real thing that is legislated and ready for rollout or still a concept ?

The Card is still being reviewed, draft legislation has been drawn up by the NSW govt.- so not yet law.

The NSW Libs. (with a few exceptions) are proposing, & will pass the Card.

NSW National's Leader J. Barillaro is against it, & the NSW ALP appears split. Both may not want to upset the "cheap parma a pot parasites" in the regions & Sydney's WS. (As ALP Leader, J. Gillard wanted the Card introduced around Aust.).

The Greens, One Nation, & other cross benches in the NSW Upper House have formally stated they will support the Card's introduction, so it should pass through (LNP does not have a majority in the Upper House).

The pokie lobby will again argue the Card will cost c. 25k job losses in Clubs & pubs etc.
This analysis has been thoroughly debunked by other economic experts, with research showing much more than 25,000+ new jobs will be created in other industries by people spending their former losses elsewhere.

This 21.2.21 article states there will be fierce opposition by the pokie industry to protect their profits. Australians have net losses of $13b pa to poker machines.

"T. Stolz, a former ClubsNSW Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Finance manager, blew the whistle last year on the extent of money laundering through poker machines in pubs & Clubs"

"J. Field, an Independent in NSW's Upper House, said the govt. had previously indicated as much as 20% of money going through the NSW poker machines might be inked to organised crime".

T. Stolz believes the legislation will not be passed.

Whistleblower warns NSW gambling card at risk due to industry’s ‘massive' lobbying power

Proposal, recommended by Bergin report into money laundering at Crown casinos, is expected to trigger huge lobbying effort

www.theguardian.com

2. This is a detailed academic study, from the ANU in December 2019, providing an overview of the massive harm to marriages, & families, & society generally, that is being caused by the huge losses involved in gambling.

https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2020/3/ANU_Gambling_Support_Study.pdf

 

[Mara Singha]

Fantastic club in spite of how 'grassroot' NRL folk treat them like a red headed step-son. In a lot of ways, they are the envy of a lot of or most other clubs.

You’ll find that is only the people in NSW who have spent the past 20 years hating Greg Inglis, Cam Smith, Cooper Cronk & Billy Slater

NRL devotees dislike Melbourne Storm because they ruined the 2009 and 2007 seasons and the club and players of the time have shown no contrition.

 

[madmug]

NRL devotees dislike Melbourne Storm because they ruined the 2009 and 2007 seasons and the club and players of the time have shown no contrition.

As if the players knew the clubs salary cap position. They just work their arzes off to play & win.

Why would they say sorry? They'd be disappointed/upset. Thats about it.

 

[GC2015]

Not a chance.

The Queenslanders I came across haven’t even heard of Australian Rules Footy.

What part of Queensland were they from? It's a very diverse state with all kinds of interests and priorities.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in south east QLD who is unaware of the AFL.