Preview AFL Round 2 - Geelong v Hawthorn, MCG, 3:10PM Monday 9 April

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Is Scarlett that big a loss when against the Hawks?

Recently we seem to have gone with the Lonergan/Taylor match up anyhow. Obviously Scarlett is important, but I dont consider him to be our best defender anymore, especially when it comes to matching up on Franklin. Heck, Mackie has done a decent job on him in the past as well. For this particular game though, I would much rather have lost Scarlett then Say Taylor.

Scarlett is a big loss. Last season, it was like he was wearing a magnet under his guernsey because (almost) every forward entry, Scarlett was there to pick off the kick into the forward line. He floated around Geelong's backline taking marks at will. It was very frustrating to see Hawthorn's midfielders fall into the same trap time and time again of kicking it in his general vicinity, but that was down to Scott's coaching.
 

Phil McCreviss

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what I'd like to know from a Hawthorn supporter is who will control Hawkins in terms of matching him in the air and for strength?

Who will play on Podsiadly and be able to nullify his marking?

Orren Stephenson played poorly but he played against the biggest player the game has even seen and he now gets to face up to Hale who stands his own height and weight.
McCauley is still a prospect so it's hard to judge him so early on but I know what we will get from West and that 2nd efforts and competitiveness along with an ability to push forward and sniff a goal or two so we could have you covered in the ruck which is going to be pivotal.

The reality is that no backline can hold Pods and Hawkins if they get supply from your midfield. If you watched our game on Friday night, we had the same issue with Cloke and Dawes....but we managed.

I think if a midfield gets on top, either backline can be exposed. If Pods kicks 6 or Hawkins kicks 4 it's purely because your midfield has beaten ours and if that happens, you deserve the win.

Isolating Hawkins and Pods as individual matchups isn't a worry for us as I am sure Franklin by himself isn't for you.
 

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Re: Can we talk about the Hawthorn game now?

I still wouldn't play Gillies though, I agree with your assessment on him at the moment.

Question for thejester and Pure_Ownage:

When on earth would you play Gillies? Scarlett played 21 games in his third year. Gillies played two.

According to you he's not (yet) even up to VFL standard but when given the opportunity to offload him to Hawthorn a few months ago, presumably for a reasonable draft pick, the Cats declined. (What an amazing opportunity to palm a sub-VFL-standard dud off to one of the biggest rivals for AFL supremacy.)

I read your posts and think you're both astute. I watch the Cats draft, trade and develop players and think they're astute too.

But the club and you can't both be right in this instance. Has the club got it wrong by keeping him?
 
Re: Can we talk about the Hawthorn game now?

Question for thejester and Pure_Ownage:

When on earth would you play Gillies? Scarlett played 21 games in his third year. Gillies played two.

According to you he's not (yet) even up to VFL standard but when given the opportunity to offload him to Hawthorn a few months ago, presumably for a reasonable draft pick, the Cats declined. (What an amazing opportunity to palm a sub-VFL-standard dud off to one of the biggest rivals for AFL supremacy.)

I read your posts and think you're both astute. I watch the Cats draft, trade and develop players and think they're astute too.

But the club and you can't both be right in this instance. Has the club got it wrong by keeping him?

Not against Hawthorn, against a weaker opposition where it's less likely to lose us the game.

Anyway, on the rest, I am more than happy to admit, as I am sure jester is, that the club has better knowledge than us as they have more first hand knowledge of the player available to them whereas we merely watch the guys play. So the club may well be right and we'll both be happy if they are.

I don't think the club did the wrong thing keeping him. Look, the reality is the position of our list didn't make trading him a good idea. He is the succession plan for fullback, we haven't drafted any other key defenders, and Laidler who was about the only viable option went 12 months earlier, and with retirements that key defender is likely to be needed very soon. Imagine if we had traded him and he cut the mustard at hawthorn while 12 months later with retirements we've got a hole we need a key defender to fill. Our list wasn't in a position of depth in that particular position for the trade to be a good idea, we simply have to run it to the end with Gillies. I think what jes and I are saying is based on what we've seen in the vfl last year, and nab this year, we have concerns about his lack of improvement, and whether he will make it. Doesn't mean we made the wrong decision in trade week though.
 
The reality is that no backline can hold Pods and Hawkins if they get supply from your midfield. If you watched our game on Friday night, we had the same issue with Cloke and Dawes....but we managed.

I think if a midfield gets on top, either backline can be exposed. If Pods kicks 6 or Hawkins kicks 4 it's purely because your midfield has beaten ours and if that happens, you deserve the win.

Isolating Hawkins and Pods as individual matchups isn't a worry for us as I am sure Franklin by himself isn't for you.

Very good post, the reality is both forward lines are very dangerous and if either gets consistent quick ball in to 1-1s, that team will probably win the game.

The midfield battle will determine the outcome.
 
why not play Gillies this week?

It's not a final, we are down one key defender and Gillies is the most obvious player to replace him with the exact same size.
He's had senior footy experience, it's not as if he's a complete dud or anything because from his previous senior matches...he did fine.

He'd have support around him and I reckon he'd be a very good chance at getting a call up (if he's fit).


Was injured in the VFL game and sat in a tracksuit for the second half. would be doubtful I would think based on that information.
 

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that's true Phil.

Where do you feel Hawthorn's weakness could be as of right now?

I see a lack of leg speed in the middle as a big worry and it's been the case with Geelong for a few years until Duncan and Christensen popped up and took the pressure away from Corey and Bartel.

we used to lack midfield pace, and people still believe it a fact cause our pace isnt with the household names. it still needs to improve, but the likes of
Isaac Smith, Shane Savage, Liam Shiels....and Cyril have plenty of leg speed.
Burgoyne and Birchall also provide some reasonable pace/explosiveness out of the congestion, and we have in the past season had Buddy, Whitecross and Puopolo push into the centre bounces as well.

Pace isnt where this game will be won or lost. Should be another cracker!!

Ins for Hawks will be Shiels and i reckon Roughead will be in as well....two massive ins for us!!
 

Phil McCreviss

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that's true Phil.

Where do you feel Hawthorn's weakness could be as of right now?

I see a lack of leg speed in the middle as a big worry and it's been the case with Geelong for a few years until Duncan and Christensen popped up and took the pressure away from Corey and Bartel.

I think quick ball movement in to forward line can expose us but that's the case for any team. Our area of improvement over summer is body size and depth. Some of our rookies are more seasoned and now know how to deal with the physical aspect of the game.

I don't agree with the lack of leg speed issue. IMO leg speed is massively overrated in today's game. The very reason why I can't see Carlton winning a flag. Give me a footballer who reads the ball wall and wins contested possession any day over a whippet who runs fast. Pace doesn't win flags as the Cats have proved time and again.
 

FoxC

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we used to lack midfield pace, and people still believe it a fact cause our pace isnt with the household names. it still needs to improve, but the likes of
Isaac Smith, Shane Savage, Liam Shiels....and Cyril have plenty of leg speed.
Burgoyne and Birchall also provide some reasonable pace/explosiveness out of the congestion, and we have in the past season had Buddy, Whitecross and Puopolo push into the centre bounces as well.

Pace isnt where this game will be won or lost. Should be another cracker!!

Ins for Hawks will be Shiels and i reckon Roughead will be in as well....two massive ins for us!!

If anything I think Hawks already have more pace than Geelong, and our two speedsters Wojcinski and Varcoe are both out. Will be tough to beat you without Scarlett as well.
 

Commando

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Picked hawks over 25pts, the run will probably come to an end sadly, bit of rain would help geelongs cause, alot of rain actually!
 

Commando

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odds on that would be quite juicy ;) am guessing around $3.50 or so (not that I condone gambling mind you
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Dont bet in geelong games, to my financial detriment
 
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Is Scarlett that big a loss when against the Hawks?
It's not so much about who Scarlett takes one on one (although the luxury of knowing he can shut down someone like Rough or Hale if need be is handy) but more about how he organises our defense as a group and the places he positions himself at the crucial times to best assist his team mates in coping with the deadly Franklin and Rioli.
 

DrEvil

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what I'd like to know from a Hawthorn supporter is who will control Hawkins in terms of matching him in the air and for strength?

Who will play on Podsiadly and be able to nullify his marking?

Orren Stephenson played poorly but he played against the biggest player the game has even seen and he now gets to face up to Hale who stands his own height and weight.
McCauley is still a prospect so it's hard to judge him so early on but I know what we will get from West and that 2nd efforts and competitiveness along with an ability to push forward and sniff a goal or two so we could have you covered in the ruck which is going to be pivotal.

We are secretly hoping Hawkins will control himself by kicking poorly. :)
But seriously we do not have matches for those two and can only contain them by limiting the supply from midfield.
 

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I fancy us here, overall I thought we showed plenty on Saturday Night and we are a better side than Hawthorn.

Interesting night at selection, no logical replacement for Scarlett, maybe use Mackie in his role and bring Hunt in to play Mackie's role. Need a big game form the midfielders. Christensen will hopefully start in 21. Smedts sub.
 
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we used to lack midfield pace, and people still believe it a fact cause our pace isnt with the household names. it still needs to improve, but the likes of
Isaac Smith, Shane Savage, Liam Shiels....and Cyril have plenty of leg speed.
Burgoyne and Birchall also provide some reasonable pace/explosiveness out of the congestion, and we have in the past season had Buddy, Whitecross and Puopolo push into the centre bounces as well.

Pace isnt where this game will be won or lost. Should be another cracker!!

Ins for Hawks will be Shiels and i reckon Roughead will be in as well....two massive ins for us!!

You may well be right although Clarko would be thinking the Hawks are odds on to win this one with out him and he may look to ease him back in something a little less demanding.
I could see it as a win for Geelong if he played this week at the expense of a bit of pace.
 

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I think the fact that we will go in as raging under-dogs works heavily in our favour.
We will, as always, have our work cut out for us but it is certainly not beyond us.
Make no mistake though...Hawthorn will start this game as if it's a GF!! As did Freo. We need to ensure we at least break even in the first 1-15 minutes.
If we win the centre clearances (which we can do) I just don't see how they can hold our forwards. I do expect to see a return of flooding. They will need their mid-field pressing back hard and then breaking, to isolate Franklin/Rioli on the rebound which is their strength.
More than ever I see this as a battle of mid-fileds rather than tactics.
Who ever wants it the most, wins.

PS I like Mitch Brown in for Scarlo to stretch them.
 
You may well be right although Clarko would be thinking the Hawks are odds on to win this one with out him and he may look to ease him back in something a little less demanding.
I could see it as a win for Geelong if he played this week at the expense of a bit of pace.

I don't see Roughead playing on Monday. He's had a half a game of NAB Cup against Fremantle and a VFL game against Sandringham which was more than 2 weeks before the Geelong game.

I'd say that the Hawks would want to get more miles into Roughead's legs before bringing him back into the seniors. I'd pencil him in for round 3 against the Crows, not for round 2 against Geelong.
 
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I can see this one going right down to the wire. A 2-0 start would be disappointing but not the end of the world - we'll definitely be up for the Hawks game though so if we lose there won't be any excuses.

Scarlett, Hunt and Wojcinski missing will rob our backline of stability. Mackie was pretty good on Pavlich for most of Saturday night and will likely have another big job next week.

I seem to remember Taylor Hunt effectively tagging Rioli in a game last year - can anyone confirm this?

FWIW, The Age today believes Podsiadly and Kelly's reports will be thrown out.
 

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Very good post, the reality is both forward lines are very dangerous and if either gets consistent quick ball in to 1-1s, that team will probably win the game.

The midfield battle will determine the outcome.
This^^ It is not only about getting the ball out of the middle as such, it is about getting in there quickly and well directed. If Geelong get well on top here and you convert, we will be in trouble. The games (other than the finals last year) between us have often been decided in the last 10 minutes with you guys running down our score late. I dont think that will be an issue this time but time will tell. Pods and Hawkins will be hard for ANY defence to stop with quick movement and like your defence, ours will have to work as a team to minimise their effect.
 

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Re: Can we talk about the Hawthorn game now?

Your points are good EXCEPT for Hawkins, SJ, Selwood. Maybe you didn't read properly, or you are too riled, but I nominated Hawkins as our #1 player as far as fear factor for Hawthorn, specially if he kicks accurately. I have never been critical of individual players, care to check all my posts, and never will, but what I said about SJ is true, you have to accept there's going to be brilliance mixed with moments of stupidity and frustration. Selwood is super courageous, and again I named him as a player they will fear, but he is no X factor, which we will need.

You are correct about my support being shithouse if it is based on having to think we are always going to win. I base my SUPPORT as well by buying memberships each year for the past 15 years for 5 members of my family, in cluding myself, and attending all Victorian games unless work prevents me.

If what I write incites other viewpoints as to why we could get up this week, great, that's what we're here for. But nothing you've said makes me think we have the team this week to get up. As I have said, and others too, I think we will be better once our X factors are back, and the season drags on. We could still be there a bouts in September.

BTW, are you a fully paid up supporting member and attend games? I have caught up with several people on BF at games. Better way to exchange levels of support.

Why not accept that some people express their feelings about our team almost always thinking we will win. I envy that. A minority like me need help.

Yes I am a paid member, and I go to as many games as work allows (I work saturdays)
 
I can see this one going right down to the wire. A 2-0 start would be disappointing but not the end of the world - we'll definitely be up for the Hawks game though so if we lose there won't be any excuses.

Scarlett, Hunt and Wojcinski missing will rob our backline of stability. Mackie was pretty good on Pavlich for most of Saturday night and will likely have another big job next week.

I seem to remember Taylor Hunt effectively tagging Rioli in a game last year - can anyone confirm this?

FWIW, The Age today believes Podsiadly and Kelly's reports will be thrown out.
THunt had the job on Burgoyne but got injured in the equivalent game last year. Not sure if he played the second time.
 
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We need to ensure we at least break even in the first 1-15 minutes.
Yep. Things is our starts have been a HUGE issue against the Hawks lately as well. Early in '10 they had 4 quick goals on the board before we scored.

Early last year they had 5 in a blink on the board before we had one. In our final it could have been the same if they were accurate like the above games. Were something like 2 6 before we settled.

Has just got to stop.
 
Re: Can we talk about the Hawthorn game now?

We will not have our usual ruck dominance, we no longer have the Ablett factor, Scarlett is critical in defence against the most potent attack in the AFL, and the player Hawks hate most, Lingy, gone. And then our X factors, Varcoe, Wojo, Menzel all unavailable!!

Glad to get that off my chest. No, I doubt that we'll get the 4 points next Monday, but would be a very meritorious win if we did.

We haven't managed to get over you guys for a few years but even with some weaker sides, injuries etc, we have always had pretty good games. That's just the nature of Hawks v Cats - a bit like Pies v Essendon where the ladder often doesn't matter.

You guys seem really pessimistic this week but if anything is going to shake you awake it is a game against us. I think we are obviously running a bit better right now but it will only take a nice passage of play against us for you guys to click at anytime.

Doubt there will be much in it again.

Good luck. Love (and hate) the games against you blokes.
 
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