AFL Round 23: Sydney v Hawthorn Saturday 7:25pm AEST @SGC

Who wins?

  • Sydney

    Votes: 9 15.0%

  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 48 80.0%

  • Draw

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .

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Bradkli said:
That umpiring was utterly disgusting!!! it was borderline cheating and sydney still couldn't win.
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Are you nervous because as a Geelong supporter there is a strong chance you'll be playing Sydney in Sydney next week and may be on the end of one of those umpiring performances?
 

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Plugger35 said:
Hawthorn supporters complaining about umpires.

Welcome to our world you spoilt brats, we've been shafted like this for over 5 years.
Click to expand...
Never complain never explain and unlike st kilda we find a way to win. This game proves everything I have said about umpiring. It's never the difference the players ultimately win and lose u the game. Let this be a lesson u remember. Hopefully u will blame ure club for all its inadequacies rather than take the soft option
 
mick500 said:
Welcome to the club. Like the last time we played you in a final in Melbourne.
Click to expand...
Unlike some teams we still find a way to win. Umpires never the difference in the end. If you are good enough u win
 
Plugger35 said:
Now Hawthorn supporters know how we felt down in Tassie a few years ago when the umpires dragged you across the line.

"Not 15" "Not 15" nek minnut turnover goal to Hawthorn.
Click to expand...
But but but... we didnt lose
 
Plugger35 said:
Now Hawthorn supporters know how we felt down in Tassie a few years ago when the umpires dragged you across the line.

"Not 15" "Not 15" nek minnut turnover goal to Hawthorn.
Click to expand...
Just tu further illustrate my point Mcartin has a shot for goal late in the qtr to take the lead and missed morrison has the same opportunity and drills it
 
Last edited:
KevDawg said:
So, both officials agreed it was touched.
I rewound to hear what Ray says. “I called it touched off the boot. I have to review it”.
Can you help me to understand where the umpire ruling is that states that he HAS TO review it? Maybe I’ve missed that?
The bunker is allowed to call goals back when they are contended, aren’t they?
Click to expand...
If the umpire that called touched is the one that gives the all clear, I think it makes sense to review it. It would be like the manager of the business signing off on his own pay rises. The third umpire has the ability to review only after a goal. As soon as a kick out has been taken, there is no recourse. In my opinion, this was handled perfectly.
 
blue harvest said:
The ball came out, that's all that has to happen. Swans player then grabbed it and didn't get it out.
Click to expand...

Good umpires can pick a double decision , GOOD UMPIRES!!!!

By double decision I mean that in a split decision, in that split second, two infringements from the tackler and the tackled cancel out the free, and its a ball up .

When an umpire can't define that, he either doesn't understand or he doesn't see, its rare but sometimes you'll see something left alone then on replay you can see that, the ball up was the right call.

Ray made some calls, especially when he free kicked against Hawthorn, in the dying minutes in Sydney's forward line, for a shot at goal , we were lucky it missed or I can't remember I had gone into insane fury mode, my son who normally goes mad just stood up and said shrugging his shoulder , look who paid it.

Ray Chamberlain umpires on the edge , right on the edge, and will jumpcall anything almost like he follows his own rule like a pre programed machine .

Then he misses the football spirit of it, doesn't understand, others may be a bit that way too.
Like accidental and incidental touching which penalties for these things need close scrutiny . Ray loses the 50/50 totally. That tiny bit of judgement.

That's when he is deeply fixated in his own preconceived practice, when he calls frees in his own brain, not what the actual occurrence is or the rules which are damned well double edged swords!.
That too is the AFL'S fault, and its NON black and white set up of rules.

That is what the AFL grey rules have created for the poor bloody umpires . Its a fact, and you can't condemn them you also can't have prancing ego's umpiring either!

They are caught in this grey area of blindness and split second decision making, now that is normal for footy, but its not normal when it becomes 50% correct and 50% wrong every week.
Two clubs about the same , last night , and one gets 30 frees and the other gets 17 , that is abnormally way off target.

5 extra frees, from dubious calls is bad enough, but probably reasonable across most games. These guys mainly do a good job

Ray ? I am lost with him.

13 Extra frees says something to me when at least the first 2 to 3 goals scored were from free kicks that were snap called.

Then of course last night at the death knell, a Sydney player is totally caught and seconds ticked over before he ridded himself of the ball, he had it for about a year , and was caught NO FREE??????? It should have been a Hawthorn free kick.

THE PLAYER WAS CAUGHT COLD! What the hell is that rule then??????

Also last night the commentators were saying that the umpires were "targeting"... "in the back"... TARGETING?....... WHY?????????????

Isn't the rule the same every week????????????????????????????????????????

So 13 extra frees.
Any one could ask were there any of the 30 that weren't there really and created a problem for a team, not the opposition the free, or could they ask if any of the other 17 frees the other way, had a dubious free kick or two called???

And before Sydney BF folks get angry with my whinging, your BIG BUD , gets NOTHING from umpires, out of ten infringements on him he scores 1 or 2 free kicks and he gets infringed a hell of a lot.

Ray is the absolute worst , deliberate or not , but he may be a victim of the crappy grey rules.

I'll add this too, since Gerard Healy in "On The Couch" mentioned the look of the game referring to the horrible pack forming scrums and wrestling,
(What? About 8 weeks ago maybe???)

I have noticed the game has opened up a bit more, some wrestling and packs still, but nothing like the rolling mauls we've seen for the last few years.

If thats better, then we've solved the congestion problem, so what about the ridiculousness of some of the rules.

Define a push in the back

define a "caught with" or "dropping the" or "holding the " or "illegal disposal"

I saw a fist hit a ball, maybe last nights game or one of the others but the fist hit, it wasn't a throw but it got called a throw, ump didn't see, but why don't we have a law one way or the other that says , no attempt to hit the ball off the palm of the other hand, is a throw but an attempt to handball is play on?
Or the other way ,
YOU PUNCH THE BALL OFF YOUR PALM, OF YOUR OTHER HAND, WITH A FIST, CLEAR AND DECISIVELY OR ITS A FREE KICK . Have one thing or the other not guess work. Flick pass was banned years ago, have a think on that?

Like I have seen also in the arm punch or touching the back , I was under the impression that defenders ( OR A PLAYER DEFENDING FROM BEHIND) could use their elbow bent in front of their body to resist player in front from shoving onto him , or he shoving forward.

Look closely, , I have seen many players get done for in the back when having their arm folded against their body,, and then many players give an elbow shove take a mark and its paid. Sometimes?

WELL WHAT IS THE RULE AND HOW DAMNED SPECIFIC DOES THE TOUCHING HAVE TO BE, WE PLAY CONTACT GAME, MAKE A DECISION AFL!

Define deliberate out of bounds ? When it accidentally goes over in play close to the boundary in close contact, sometimes from half a metre out or less on the full off a players leg or shin or boot, ACCIDENTLY! btw.

Some times players don't even see it happen to them.

Then we get the horrible spectacle of players screaming deliberate at umpires, unfortunatly Sydney used that tactic all night last night , it is p155 weak.

That type of out of bounds should be abandoned, and Umpires should only call a deliberate kick if they really feel its deliberate. The boundary play we see in never ending succession these days show every one that most of these players can precision kick , if they don't or hit it accidently how is it deliberate? Really stupid rule.

Define 50m penalties???????????????????? They were brought in to stop heavy aggressive potential injury giving tackles and attacks from players on other players, the 50's for running past the kicker too close is a frustrating joke , that even the bloody commentators are talking about.

Did you BF folk see the nonsense 50M free against Robbie Grey , and how his opponent may have deliberately set himself off around the man on the mark to set Grey up, DISGRACEFUL CALL!
And in the spirit of the game, a terribly unfair rule.

50's, for back talking Umpires is a nonsense too, can you imagine the stress at that level playing and being frustrated by stupid rules and making a point, then copping a school boy punishment , what utter nonsense.
These umpires get paid well enough to shut up , and adjudicate.

I for one believe strongly in Umpires' having a beer with the boys after a game, but never ever become part of what the fans want to see, we want to see good adjudication, with competent ONE WAY OR THE OTHER RULES, and unmicrophoned umpires, which is a TV phenomenon that is terrible and only for the callers in the press box to play games with.

I'll bet there are some Sydney folk out there who reckon they copped a couple of frees, that may, should not have been Hawthorns way , but remember , there were 13 that went toward Sydney's advantage.

This happens!
And one way or the other, it all needs to be fixed properly , fans only get frustrated with over kill by the bureaucratic AFL, who also need a good look at too.
 
MF said:
Let's be honest... Hawthorn are top 4 courtesy of a soft draw and are pretty lucky even to be in the 8. Scraped home tonight against a side missing their full forward, centre half forward, full back, number 1 ruckman, best midfielder this season and a rising star winning defender. They're basically on par with North.
Click to expand...
Champion Data’s 2018 fixture rankings, worst to best:
1. Fremantle
2. Richmond
3. West Coast
4. Hawthorn
5. St Kilda
6. GWS
7. Melbourne
8. Adelaide
9. Western Bulldogs
10. Essendon
11. Carlton
12. Brisbane
13. Geelong
14. Sydney
15. Port Adelaide
16. Gold Coast
17. North Melbourne
18. Collingwood
 
Rusty Brookes said:
I missed the first half (I went to see the Meg - and as a Hawks supporter that might have been one of the better moves of the night). The second half was tough and hard - bloody over the moon over our kids (Morrison was terrific in that last quarter). I've found another bottle of Captain Morgan and life is good tonight.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Morrison last quarter was fantastic. And Nash’s tackle was great as well.

This morning I also found a bottles of St Andrews Cabenet and a bottle of Gentleman’s Jacks ........ they were empty though
 

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Spook said:
Champion Data’s 2018 fixture rankings, worst to best:
1. Fremantle
2. Richmond
3. West Coast
4. Hawthorn
5. St Kilda
6. GWS
7. Melbourne
8. Adelaide
9. Western Bulldogs
10. Essendon
11. Carlton
12. Brisbane
13. Geelong
14. Sydney
15. Port Adelaide
16. Gold Coast
17. North Melbourne
18. Collingwood
Click to expand...
That was based on data from before the season started. It's since been updated and you got a dream run compared to many other top 8 sides (and even some non top 8 sides) .

Well done on making the most of it, but the fact remains... You're top 4 and possibly top 8 by way of a ridiculous AFL equalization measure that shouldn't exist.
 
MF said:
That was based on data from before the season started. It's since been updated and you got a dream run compared to many other top 8 sides (and even some non top 8 sides) .

Well done on making the most of it, but the fact remains... You're top 4 and possibly top 8 by way of a ridiculous AFL equalization measure that shouldn't exist.
Click to expand...
Can you show us the updated version please?
 
MF said:
Sure...

This is the revised rankings for the run home published 3 months ago...

Western Bulldogs

Adelaide

St Kilda

Essendon

Brisbane

GWS

Gold Coast

Fremantle

Melbourne

West Coast

Sydney

Geelong

Port Adelaide

Collingwood

Carlton

Richmond

Hawthorn

North Melbourne

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...ing-draws-from-toughest-to-easiest-20366/amp/
Click to expand...
You may have to post a legitimate link as that one doesn't work. Perhaps a link to the Champion data as thats where the 1st link was from. Just so we're comparing apples to apples
 
MF said:
That was based on data from before the season started. It's since been updated and you got a dream run compared to many other top 8 sides (and even some non top 8 sides) .

Well done on making the most of it, but the fact remains... You're top 4 and possibly top 8 by way of a ridiculous AFL equalization measure that shouldn't exist.
Click to expand...
Even got to play the Swans on their home deck. Easy beats
 
MF said:
That was based on data from before the season started. It's since been updated and you got a dream run compared to many other top 8 sides (and even some non top 8 sides) .

Well done on making the most of it, but the fact remains... You're top 4 and possibly top 8 by way of a ridiculous AFL equalization measure that shouldn't exist.
Click to expand...

I thought we were top 4 because we beat Sydney in Sydney. If you had won you’d be top 4...... but you lost.

Your link Is to the REMAINING DRAW. so we had our tougher games first...your champion data didn’t reassess the whole season, just the remaining.

Do you understand that?

 
Last edited:
GCB85 said:
If the umpire that called touched is the one that gives the all clear, I think it makes sense to review it. It would be like the manager of the business signing off on his own pay rises. The third umpire has the ability to review only after a goal. As soon as a kick out has been taken, there is no recourse. In my opinion, this was handled perfectly.
Click to expand...
The goal umpire called it touched. Everyone on the ground with an eye could see it was touched. Ray was just being his typical attention seeking whore.
 
MF said:
That was based on data from before the season started. It's since been updated and you got a dream run compared to many other top 8 sides (and even some non top 8 sides) .

Well done on making the most of it, but the fact remains... You're top 4 and possibly top 8 by way of a ridiculous AFL equalization measure that shouldn't exist.
Click to expand...
The AFL equalization measure which includes a time machine to see which team would rise/fall in the future? Yes that really shouldn't exist :$ :$ :$
 
JoondalupJ said:
Good umpires can pick a double decision , GOOD UMPIRES!!!!

By double decision I mean that in a split decision, in that split second, two infringements from the tackler and the tackled cancel out the free, and its a ball up .

When an umpire can't define that, he either doesn't understand or he doesn't see, its rare but sometimes you'll see something left alone then on replay you can see that, the ball up was the right call.

Ray made some calls, especially when he free kicked against Hawthorn, in the dying minutes in Sydney's forward line, for a shot at goal , we were lucky it missed or I can't remember I had gone into insane fury mode, my son who normally goes mad just stood up and said shrugging his shoulder , look who paid it.

Ray Chamberlain umpires on the edge , right on the edge, and will jumpcall anything almost like he follows his own rule like a pre programed machine .

Then he misses the football spirit of it, doesn't understand, others may be a bit that way too.
Like accidental and incidental touching which penalties for these things need close scrutiny . Ray loses the 50/50 totally. That tiny bit of judgement.

That's when he is deeply fixated in his own preconceived practice, when he calls frees in his own brain, not what the actual occurrence is or the rules which are damned well double edged swords!.
That too is the AFL'S fault, and its NON black and white set up of rules.

That is what the AFL grey rules have created for the poor bloody umpires . Its a fact, and you can't condemn them you also can't have prancing ego's umpiring either!

They are caught in this grey area of blindness and split second decision making, now that is normal for footy, but its not normal when it becomes 50% correct and 50% wrong every week.
Two clubs about the same , last night , and one gets 30 frees and the other gets 17 , that is abnormally way off target.

5 extra frees, from dubious calls is bad enough, but probably reasonable across most games. These guys mainly do a good job

Ray ? I am lost with him.

13 Extra frees says something to me when at least the first 2 to 3 goals scored were from free kicks that were snap called.

Then of course last night at the death knell, a Sydney player is totally caught and seconds ticked over before he ridded himself of the ball, he had it for about a year , and was caught NO FREE??????? It should have been a Hawthorn free kick.

THE PLAYER WAS CAUGHT COLD! What the hell is that rule then??????

Also last night the commentators were saying that the umpires were "targeting"... "in the back"... TARGETING?....... WHY?????????????

Isn't the rule the same every week????????????????????????????????????????

So 13 extra frees.
Any one could ask were there any of the 30 that weren't there really and created a problem for a team, not the opposition the free, or could they ask if any of the other 17 frees the other way, had a dubious free kick or two called???

And before Sydney BF folks get angry with my whinging, your BIG BUD , gets NOTHING from umpires, out of ten infringements on him he scores 1 or 2 free kicks and he gets infringed a hell of a lot.

Ray is the absolute worst , deliberate or not , but he may be a victim of the crappy grey rules.

I'll add this too, since Gerard Healy in "On The Couch" mentioned the look of the game referring to the horrible pack forming scrums and wrestling,
(What? About 8 weeks ago maybe???)

I have noticed the game has opened up a bit more, some wrestling and packs still, but nothing like the rolling mauls we've seen for the last few years.

If thats better, then we've solved the congestion problem, so what about the ridiculousness of some of the rules.

Define a push in the back

define a "caught with" or "dropping the" or "holding the " or "illegal disposal"

I saw a fist hit a ball, maybe last nights game or one of the others but the fist hit, it wasn't a throw but it got called a throw, ump didn't see, but why don't we have a law one way or the other that says , no attempt to hit the ball off the palm of the other hand, is a throw but an attempt to handball is play on?
Or the other way ,
YOU PUNCH THE BALL OFF YOUR PALM, OF YOUR OTHER HAND, WITH A FIST, CLEAR AND DECISIVELY OR ITS A FREE KICK . Have one thing or the other not guess work. Flick pass was banned years ago, have a think on that?

Like I have seen also in the arm punch or touching the back , I was under the impression that defenders ( OR A PLAYER DEFENDING FROM BEHIND) could use their elbow bent in front of their body to resist player in front from shoving onto him , or he shoving forward.

Look closely, , I have seen many players get done for in the back when having their arm folded against their body,, and then many players give an elbow shove take a mark and its paid. Sometimes?

WELL WHAT IS THE RULE AND HOW DAMNED SPECIFIC DOES THE TOUCHING HAVE TO BE, WE PLAY CONTACT GAME, MAKE A DECISION AFL!

Define deliberate out of bounds ? When it accidentally goes over in play close to the boundary in close contact, sometimes from half a metre out or less on the full off a players leg or shin or boot, ACCIDENTLY! btw.

Some times players don't even see it happen to them.

Then we get the horrible spectacle of players screaming deliberate at umpires, unfortunatly Sydney used that tactic all night last night , it is p155 weak.

That type of out of bounds should be abandoned, and Umpires should only call a deliberate kick if they really feel its deliberate. The boundary play we see in never ending succession these days show every one that most of these players can precision kick , if they don't or hit it accidently how is it deliberate? Really stupid rule.

Define 50m penalties???????????????????? They were brought in to stop heavy aggressive potential injury giving tackles and attacks from players on other players, the 50's for running past the kicker too close is a frustrating joke , that even the bloody commentators are talking about.

Did you BF folk see the nonsense 50M free against Robbie Grey , and how his opponent may have deliberately set himself off around the man on the mark to set Grey up, DISGRACEFUL CALL!
And in the spirit of the game, a terribly unfair rule.

50's, for back talking Umpires is a nonsense too, can you imagine the stress at that level playing and being frustrated by stupid rules and making a point, then copping a school boy punishment , what utter nonsense.
These umpires get paid well enough to shut up , and adjudicate.

I for one believe strongly in Umpires' having a beer with the boys after a game, but never ever become part of what the fans want to see, we want to see good adjudication, with competent ONE WAY OR THE OTHER RULES, and unmicrophoned umpires, which is a TV phenomenon that is terrible and only for the callers in the press box to play games with.

I'll bet there are some Sydney folk out there who reckon they copped a couple of frees, that may, should not have been Hawthorns way , but remember , there were 13 that went toward Sydney's advantage.

This happens!
And one way or the other, it all needs to be fixed properly , fans only get frustrated with over kill by the bureaucratic AFL, who also need a good look at too.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with paragraph 18.
 
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