AFL should not call it a premiership this season.

[Maylandsman]

logic is not a location, it is an intangible

Outstanding, you’ve added nothing all the while lurking in the shadowy corner. Creepy fella stalking BF posters.

 

[Maylandsman]

major premiers

Now you are just making things up. The ‘Major Premiers’ - decent!
Just had a look and Bulldogs are still 7th in 2016 and Sydney first. Just because they need to ensure the draft is fair does not see a positional change. Yes you are stating fact. That Fitzroy finished last in 1916 which they did and the AFL interferes with history and changed the rating because they also won the premiership. Nope whether they changed it or not there is no changing the fact that in 1916 Fitzroy finished last and were therefore wooden spooners. The ladder shows this.

 

[relapse]

If we end up with a 17 round season with everyone playing each other once, it could well be argued that the ultimate Premier will be the most legitimate of recent decades.

How is it fair?

When you factor in home field advantage for traveling sides a 17 week season can still give teams an advantage over the other.

Lets say that

Collingwood had West Coast, Geelong, Adelaide, Port, Brisbane and GWS at the MCG and played Sydney (SCG), Freo (Optus) and GC (Metricon).

Bulldogs had West Coast (Optus), Geelong (Kardinia Park), Adelaide (Adelaide Oval), Port (Adelaide Oval), GWS (Giants Stadium) and played Sydney, Freo and GC at Marvel.

Collingwood would clearly have the easier draw out of the two.

The only truly fair system IMO is to play everyone twice.

 

[belliott]

Its actually MORE fair as you only play each team once which is something people have suggested happen for years. Playing some teams more than others is unfair to the teams with harder draws.

 

[TigerTime88]

Excellent suggestion. May as well include the AFL-X Grand Final winners in the premership tally if we include this half season. If there is a premiership it shouldn't be worth the same as other AFL premierships.

The main reason is the winning club had to work a lot less than winning clubs of all other years and not play top clubs twice. Also if Richmond were affected by coronavirus and Port weren't, and Port won the flag it wouldn't be fair

Makes no sense. As long as everyone plays everyone once during the home and away it's actually the purest season we have had as the fixture is completely fair.

The best 8 teams will still make finals and it will move on from there.




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[bobs head soup]

How is it fair?

When you factor in home field advantage for traveling sides a 17 week season can still give teams an advantage over the other.

Lets say that

Collingwood had West Coast, Geelong, Adelaide, Port, Brisbane and GWS at the MCG and played Sydney (SCG), Freo (Optus) and GC (Metricon).

Bulldogs had West Coast (Optus), Geelong (Kardinia Park), Adelaide (Adelaide Oval), Port (Adelaide Oval), GWS (Giants Stadium) and played Sydney, Freo and GC at Marvel.

Collingwood would clearly have the easier draw out of the two.

The only truly fair system IMO is to play everyone twice.

Sure that's the ideal, but logistically a 34 round season is just not practical. Just saying a season where everyone meets everyone once is more equitable than what we've had in recent decades.

 

[Roylion]

Now you are just making things up. The ‘Major Premiers’ - decent!

Well if you have a "minor premier", what would the premier be other than a "major premier"?

Just had a look and Bulldogs are still 7th in 2016 and Sydney first.

But who were the premiers in 2016 and what draft pick did they have? The season didn't finish at the end of the home and away season.

Here's how the top eight ended up at the end of the 2016 season

1. Western Bulldogs (7th at the end of the home and away) - PREMIERS of the 2016 season. 1st.
2. Sydney Swans (1st at the end of the home and away) - RUNNERS-UP of the 2016 season. 2nd
3. Geelong (2nd at the end of the home and away)
4. Greater Western Sydney (4th at the end of the home and away)
5. Hawthorn (3rd at the end of the home and away)
6. Adelaide (5th at the end of the home and away)
7. West Coast (6th at the end of the home and away). Lost elimination final.
8. North Melbourne (8th at the end of the home and away) Lost elimination final.

Just because they need to ensure the draft is fair does not see a positional change.

Why not make a team's draft position in reverse order of where they finished at the end of the home and away season in that case? They don't because the season hasn't finished

That Fitzroy finished last in 1916 which they did and the AFL interferes with history and changed the rating because they also won the premiership.

Indicating that they recognise that the season in fact has NOT finished at the end of the home and away season. Quite correctly.

Nope whether they changed it or not there is no changing the fact that in 1916 Fitzroy finished last and were therefore wooden spooners. The ladder shows this.

Fitzroy finished fourth at the end of the home and away rounds in 1916. They then won all their finals. Very similar to how the Bulldogs finished 7th at the end of the home and away and won all their finals to become premiers. Essendon were 18th at the end of the home and away rounds in 2016. Essendon were still 18th at the end of the Grand Final and therefore the end of the season in 2016 they were the wooden spooners.

Richmond were on the bottom of the ladder at the end of the 1916 season . They won the least games of any competing club at the end of the season. Even less than Fitzroy.

 

[Maylandsman]

Well if you have a "minor premier", what would the premier be other than a "major premier"? s**t and giggles.
But who were the premiers in 2016 and what draft pick did they have? The season didn't finish at the end of the home and away season.
Here's how the top eight ended up at the end of the 2016 season

1. Western Bulldogs (7th at the end of the home and away) - PREMIERS of the 2016 season, Don’t you mean ‘major premiers?’ Lol.
2. Sydney Swans (1st at the end of the home and away) - RUNNERS-UP of the 2016 season. 2nd
3. Geelong (2nd at the end of the home and away)
4. Greater Western Sydney (4th at the end of the home and away)
5. Hawthorn (3rd at the end of the home and away)
6. Adelaide (5th at the end of the home and away)
7. West Coast (6th at the end of the home and away). Lost elimination final.
8. North Melbourne (8th at the end of the home and away) Lost elimination final.
Indicating that they recognise that the season in fact has NOT finished at the end of the home and away season. Quite correctly. See 1916 ladder at end of home and away...Fitzroy last.
Fitzroy finished last at the end of the home and away rounds in 1916. They then won all their finals. Essendon were 18th at the end of the home and away rounds in 2016. Essendon were still 18th at the end of the Grand Final and therefore the end of the season in 2016 they were the wooden spooners. Lol, anyway the Bombers could have changed this? No of course not, just silly business.
Richmond were on the bottom of the ladder at the end of the 1916 season . They won the least games of any competing club at the end of the season. Even less than Fitzroy. 4 is greater than 2. That is the number you see at the end of the season before entering finals. A different beast altogether. As Fitzroy showed in 1916 after winning the spoon then the premiership.

The historical artefacts I presented above beg to differ. You can try all you like, and make up phrases, but there is no changing Fitzroy ‘won’ the wooden spoon in 1916. And your pretend ‘final’ ladder for 2016 is made up, by you. Where can you find an offical one of those, not made up? I’ll wait....
Direct me to some writings by journalists for example where a team in the AFL has been declared ‘major premiers’....once again I’ll wait....
Can you find me an offical ladder that shows Fitzroy finished first in 1916 and not last? I’ll wait....
You can’t just make things up to suit your narrative. As they say the proof is in the pudding;

 

[Maylandsman]

Roylion
Nearly joined The Roy’s this year, best emblem in the whole SFA comp.
How are you lot travelling? We could be teammates next season...good times.

 

[radiojake]

was really hoping the OP would be a fan from a club with a ton of old VFL flags in which their argument would ironically be devaluing past flags


was disappointed it didn't turn out that way

 

[Roylion]

The historical artefacts I presented above beg to differ. You can try all you like, and make up phrases, but there is no changing Fitzroy ‘won’ the wooden spoon in 1916.

That's not what the official AFL statistics say. Richmond were the 1916 wooden spooners according to the AFL official statisticians.

And your pretend ‘final’ ladder for 2016 is made up, by you. Where can you find an offical one of those, not made up? I’ll wait....

Take a look at the 2016 Draft order. That is determined on the official AFL ladder at the end of the entire 2016 season. Not the end of the home and away season.

Here it is again

1. Western Bulldogs - PREMIERS of the 2016 season. 1st.
2. Sydney Swans - RUNNERS-UP of the 2016 season. 2nd
3. Geelong
4. Greater Western Sydney
5. Hawthorn
6. Adelaide
7. West Coast
8. North Melbourne

Direct me to some writings by journalists for example where a team in the AFL has been declared ‘major premiers’....once again I’ll wait....

They're called the 'premiers'. We have a minor premier so if you want to distinguish the premier and the minor premier, you can call them the the 'major premier' if you like. As far as I'm concerned the winner of the Grand Final is the premier and is determined to have finished 1st that year.

Can you find me an offical ladder that shows Fitzroy finished first in 1916 and not last? I’ll wait....

Were Fitzroy the 1916 premiers or were they not? If they were then they were considered to have finished first.

The home and away season only determines who makes the finals (in 1916 they all did) and then the order of the finalists to detemine who get double chances, home ground advantage and the like. The conclusion of the last round in the home and away season is NOT the end of the season.

You can’t just make things up to suit your narrative. As they say the proof is in the pudding;

Talk to the AFL official statisticians. Fitzroy were the 1916 premiers. 1st. Richmond were the 1916 wooden spooners. Last. It's official.

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Makes no sense. As long as everyone plays everyone once during the home and away it's actually the purest season we have had as the fixture is completely fair.

The best 8 teams will still make finals and it will move on from there.




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I don't think you understand what I said it makes complete sense. I'm not arguing the season itself won't be fair the issue is awarding an AFL premiership won't be fair as it's a reduced season.

 

[Coaster2012]

If everyone plays each other once and there is a top 8 finals series, why wouldn't it be called a premiership? That is enough data to label a side the best of 2020.

 

[big_e]

That's not what the official AFL statistics say. Richmond were the 1916 wooden spooners according to the AFL official statisticians.



Take a look at the 2016 Draft order. That is determined on the official AFL ladder at the end of the entire 2016 season. Not the end of the home and away season.

Here it is again

1. Western Bulldogs - PREMIERS of the 2016 season. 1st.
2. Sydney Swans - RUNNERS-UP of the 2016 season. 2nd
3. Geelong
4. Greater Western Sydney
5. Hawthorn
6. Adelaide
7. West Coast
8. North Melbourne



They're called the 'premiers'. We have a minor premier so if you want to distinguish the premier and the minor premier, you can call them the the 'major premier' if you like. As far as I'm concerned the winner of the Grand Final is the premier and is determined to have finished 1st that year.



Were Fitzroy the 1916 premiers or were they not? If they were then they were considered to have finished first.

The home and away season only determines who makes the finals (in 1916 they all did) and then the order of the finalists to detemine who get double chances, home ground advantage and the like. The conclusion of the last round in the home and away season is NOT the end of the season.



Talk to the AFL official statisticians. Fitzroy were the 1916 premiers. 1st. Richmond were the 1916 wooden spooners. Last. It's official.

 

[Whiskers]

I bet the people arguing this season shouldn’t count are very young and relatively new to the sport.
There are premiers like Fitzroy in a 4 team comp who finished last but won the flag. Do we take that off them and all the other flags won during war years? Geelong couldn’t compete during one of those years.
Seasons have looked different throughout history and all count towards the tally,

 

[juss]

If everyone plays each other once and there is a top 8 finals series, why wouldn't it be called a premiership? That is enough data to label a side the best of 2020.

Sums it up.

 

[Free Agent]

Bringing this back in light of the AFL relocating WA clubs.
Again I was right in saying that this season is screwed and no one should be crowned a premiership.

Call it something else like covid 19 cup I don't care.
But in no way that we should place a premiership in a year where clubs can't even play in their own home grounds now.
Writings on the wall. AFL needs to stamp it out of history.

There is no premiership in 2020.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[dustysnecktattoo]

Thread titles like this make me picture a fat dude waving his finger while his cheeks and chins are swinging left and right

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I am hoping it’s a 17 round season with every side playing each other once, if the AFL do something silly and play 17 rounds and fixture double up games for revenue reasons then it can’t possibly be a premiership season. I have no doubt they will look at doing exactly this.

 

[Monkey King]

Every year the league holds a competition to decide a premiership winner. It's not always the same system year to year. Some years have different rules, different teams, different amount of games played in different locations, different finals structures. Ultimately, if the league offers a premiership it's a premiership season and that's what the records will say. How people chose to value that relative to other premierships is a personal matter.

 

[The 747]

Bringing this back in light of the AFL relocating WA clubs.
Again I was right in saying that this season is screwed and no one should be crowned a premiership.

Call it something else like covid 19 cup I don't care.
But in no way that we should place a premiership in a year where clubs can't even play in their own home grounds now.
Writings on the wall. AFL needs to stamp it out of history.

There is no premiership in 2020.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I get your point about the AFL and unfairness. Every season is compromised in some way, and some clubs suffer and some clubs benefit (in this example it is pretty extreme though).

But if there is nothing to win then there is no point playing at all.

 

[Le Grille]

I think if every team plays each other at least once it’s legitimate

 

[Free Agent]

I get your point about the AFL and unfairness. Every season is compromised in some way, and some clubs suffer and some clubs benefit (in this example it is pretty extreme though).

But if there is nothing to win then there is no point playing at all.

Well if WA sides can't go home then it's pretty much that. No point in playing. It's not a premiership.

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[The 747]

Well if WA sides can't go home then it's pretty much that. No point in playing. It's not a premiership.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

How about we just exclude WA then, and have a 16 team competition. Will still be a premiership.

Fremantle and West Coast are not required inclusions in order to award a flag.

 

[footyfan1978]

Every year the league holds a competition to decide a premiership winner. It's not always the same system year to year. Some years have different rules, different teams, different amount of games played in different locations, different finals structures. Ultimately, if the league offers a premiership it's a premiership season and that's what the records will say. How people chose to value that relative to other premierships is a personal matter.

I think if every team plays each other at least once it’s legitimate

Yep. because I imagine if I was a supporter of a team not winning it but you thought your team would beat whomever got given the premiership title and you never actually played them , even once, that would be short of legitimate premiership for mine. But if everyone meet each other at least once over 4 months, it is still a premiership season to me. not playing 22 rounds is not the be all and end all, but everyone playing each other at least once, needs to be minimum requirement to have any integrity of being called a season.
If anyone won a premiership without this minimum requirement it is not actually a premiership season to me. It then is downgraded to tournament status, like the night premiership series of late 70's and the 80's. Those are fun series but still toy premierships.