AFL star’s anti-vax views cost him friendship

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In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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kaiserchief13 said:
You believe the 'un-vaxed' are the weakest among us. I believe the weakest among us are the people who believe everything they are told without questioning it, whether they are vaxed or un-vaxed. Another word for these people is sheep, but I wont hope they die.
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Have you taken your theories to the Doherty Institute yet?

If not, why not? Lives may be saved.
 

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Taylor Moss said:
I won’t mock them for dying.

But I hope they will.

Why?

Because I believe in science. I believe in Darwin’s theory of evolution.
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Believe in science? That would be like religion or ideology. Those things are fixed. Science is a method used to continually generate indications about reality that build upon existing knowledge. You could say the present composite of that knowledge could be called "scientific understanding" but that's an ever-changing thing that progresses, as the saying goes, one coffin at a time.

Like so many in this thread, you justify your intolerance on the pretense of science, but there is no science here. Hatred and some pretty extreme emotions, but no science. No relationship between unvaxed people and genetic mutation. Just a dude wishing death upon others.

If you actually believed in Darwin's theory and what science knows about genetics, you'd be hoping your family got infected with Covid and survived, not died. That's the evolutionary game with viral infections and our "human" DNA consists of something like 4% ancient viral particles.
 
Monkey King said:
Science isn't something you believe in. That would be like religion or ideology. Those things are fixed. Science is a method used to continually generate indications about reality that build upon existing knowledge. You could say the present composite of that knowledge could be called "scientific understanding" but that's an ever-changing thing that progresses, as the saying goes, one coffin at a time.

Like so many in this thread, you justify your intolerance on the pretense of science, but there is no science here. Hatred and some pretty extreme emotions, but no science. No relationship between unvaxed people and genetic mutation. Just a dude wishing death upon others.

If you actually believed in Darwin's theory and what science knows about genetics, you'd be hoping your family got infected with Covid and survived, not died. That's the evolutionary game with viral infections and our "human" DNA consists of something like 4% ancient viral particles.
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You cannot tell me what I do, and don’t believe in.

I believe I’ll get the quaddie on Derby Day.
I believe in Taylor Swift.
I believe Ryan Tannehill will win a Super Bowl with the Titans.
I believe in science.

How dare you tell me what I do, and don’t believe in!
 
kaiserchief13 said:
You believe the 'un-vaxed' are the weakest among us. I believe the weakest among us are the people who believe everything they are told without questioning it, whether they are vaxed or un-vaxed. Another word for these people is sheep, but I wont hope they die.
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You are right not to believe everything people tell you, especially what the government tells you. Politicians are scumbags and lie more than anyone. Basically, all the worst people in human history have been politicians.

People who are nervous shouldn't take the vaccine because the government tells them to. But they should look at the real scientific evidence and consensus opinion (Not unverified sources on YouTube/Google/Facebook or anecdotal stuff they hear from friends or relatives) and decide with their doctor if it is right for them. Science isn't political and it's the best source of information for people wanting to cut through the bullshit.

In 99% of cases taking the vaccine is the best choice not only for the individual but for the safety of those around them especially the vulnerable who might have legitimate medical reasons not to take the vaccine people with weak immune systems etc. These are the ones who need protection from the unvaccinated.
 
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kaiserchief13 said:
What's it matter how they think? Everyone is entitled to their opinion
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This has been done to death, their opinion (and subsequent lack of action on the vaccine front) directly and indirectly affects everyone else.

Be it COVID or others, their decision to not vaccinate means that the disease can spread more freely (how much is up for debate) and their impact on ICU and critical care hospital beds means that your (or my) family may end up struggling for care should they get sick or injured through no doing of their own.

The decision to not get vaxxed is selfish, theres no other way around it. So they whole "they are entitled to their opinion" thing doesnt wash anymore.

kaiserchief13 said:
You believe the 'un-vaxed' are the weakest among us. I believe the weakest among us are the people who believe everything they are told without questioning it, whether they are vaxed or un-vaxed. Another word for these people is sheep, but I wont hope they die.
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Yeh, again, the OVERWHELMING majority of scientists, doctors, virologists and health experts STRONGLY reccomend getting the vaccine, why anyone thinks they are in a position to be able to question that is truly beyond me.

I got the vaccine with almost no questioning or even a visit to my doctor so by all means call me a sheep but if youre still questioning the vaxx then in reality youre ignoring all the smart advice and evidence and youre a moron.
 
g_TRAIN said:
You are right not to believe everything people tell you, especially what the government tells you. Politicians are scumbags and lie more than anyone.

People who are nervous shouldn't take the vaccine because the government tells them to. But they should look at the real scientific evidence and consensus opinion (Not unverified sources on YouTube/Google/Facebook or anecdotal stuff they hear from friends or relatives) and decide with their doctor if it is right for them. Science isn't political and it's the best source of information for people wanting to cut through the bullshit.

In 99% of cases taking the vaccine is the best choice not only for the individual but for the safety of those around them especially the vulnerable who might have legitimate medical reasons not to take the vaccine people with weak immune systems etc. These are the ones who need protection from the unvaccinated.
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Is this really workable, though? I don’t understand science, and the science is not truly accessible to us. I don’t have the time or interest to “do my own research”. I just read the info put out by the health authorities, thought it seems fair enough, and got the jab.
We can’t expect the entire population to go and become amateur immunologists.
 
ElectricG said:
Is this really workable, though? I don’t understand science, and the science is not truly accessible to us. I don’t have the time or interest to “do my own research”. I just read the info put out by the health authorities, thought it seems fair enough, and got the jab.
We can’t expect the entire population to go and become amateur immunologists.
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Fair point. The research is usually published somewhere but it's not always easy to find when you don't know what you're looking for.

But if they speak with their doctor they can ask for some information on the research etc. Most doctors would be happy to provide this.
 
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ElectricG said:
Is this really workable, though? I don’t understand science, and the science is not truly accessible to us. I don’t have the time or interest to “do my own research”. I just read the info put out by the health authorities, thought it seems fair enough, and got the jab.
We can’t expect the entire population to go and become amateur immunologists.
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With DYOR, we have to remember the internet offers an irresistible way for undereducated people to feel smarter than the highly-educated.

(Not Monkey King, of course, who sets the entrance exams for MENSA and has 7 science degrees and a Nobel Prize.)
 
Monkey King said:
This is such a lame technique. Give it up.

So, what you're saying is ...

Yeah nah. What I am saying is what I posted. It was very clear. If you seek clarity, read it again.
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Nah, you're making vague statements and I think you should be very clear.

Do you suggest people DO or DO NOT consult a specialist in the relevant area as their best possible resource for health advice relating to a specific area of concern?

It's quite a simple question.
 
Monkey King said:
Believe in science? That would be like religion or ideology. Those things are fixed. Science is a method used to continually generate indications about reality that build upon existing knowledge. You could say the present composite of that knowledge could be called "scientific understanding" but that's an ever-changing thing that progresses, as the saying goes, one coffin at a time.
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Glorious.

Clearly, anyone saying they believe in science, is using the short-hand version of saying something akin to "I believe in listening to the qualified experts in relevant topic areas doing the relevant research with the best current information and evidence that humanity has available".

Of all the things in his post you could have picked on, that is the one you go for? Bizarre.
 

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Monkey King said:
You could say the present composite of that knowledge could be called "scientific understanding" but that's an ever-changing thing that progresses, as the saying goes, one coffin at a time.
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If that's a saying, well, outside of references to cremation and burial procedures, it certainly hasn't made it onto the first five pages of the internet search I just did.

And Google ngram, which traces the historical use of phrases in books, shows no record of it appearing in a book from 1800 to 2019.

Perhaps you are on a different internet?
 
Monkey King said:
Believe in science? That would be like religion or ideology. Those things are fixed. Science is a method used to continually generate indications about reality that build upon existing knowledge. You could say the present composite of that knowledge could be called "scientific understanding" but that's an ever-changing thing that progresses, as the saying goes, one coffin at a time.

Like so many in this thread, you justify your intolerance on the pretense of science, but there is no science here. Hatred and some pretty extreme emotions, but no science. No relationship between unvaxed people and genetic mutation. Just a dude wishing death upon others.

If you actually believed in Darwin's theory and what science knows about genetics, you'd be hoping your family got infected with Covid and survived, not died. That's the evolutionary game with viral infections and our "human" DNA consists of something like 4% ancient viral particles.
Click to expand...
It's off topic, from this off topic devolution of a thread - but I had to chuckle at the idea of religion and ideology being fixed (even within a particular denomination, sect, activist or political group).
 
SBD Gonzalez said:
If that's a saying, well, outside of references to cremation and burial procedures, it certainly hasn't made it onto the first five pages of the internet search I just did.

And Google ngram, which traces the historical use of phrases in books, shows no record of it appearing in a book from 1800 to 2019.

Perhaps you are on a different internet?
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Not everyone's knowledge comes from the internet. Shocking for you I know.

It's known as Planck's Principle. He said funeral. I was just going by memory, but it's the same principle.

There you go. You learned something today. It's a good day for you.
 
Taylor Moss said:
You cannot tell me what I do, and don’t believe in.

I believe I’ll get the quaddie on Derby Day.
I believe in Taylor Swift.
I believe Ryan Tannehill will win a Super Bowl with the Titans.
I believe in science.

How dare you tell me what I do, and don’t believe in!
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Better start praying for Henry’s return.
 
Bloods86 said:
It's off topic, from this off topic devolution of a thread - but I had to chuckle at the idea of religion and ideology being fixed (even within a particular denomination, sect, activist or political group).
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Yes. It was a poor way to phrase it. Let's say, science is less fixed than ideology and religion.

2500 years ago the four noble truths were taught and still underpin Buddhism. Marxism is still Marxism. The expression may change with social change, but the way those viewpoints interpret the world today is pretty much the same as when those perspectives were forged. Contradictory evidence doesn't really move the needle.

With science, one discovery can be groundbreaking. If you "believe in science", you believe in the ability of the method to move our understanding of reality. You believe in applying the scientific method to how you decipher the world.

It is not grandstanding and hoping people die on the basis of a scientific theory.
 
Monkey King said:
Yes. It was a poor way to phrase it. Let's say, science is less fixed than ideology and religion.

2500 years ago the four noble truths were taught and still underpin Buddhism. Marxism is still Marxism. The expression may change with social change, but the way those viewpoints interpret the world today is pretty much the same as when those perspectives were forged. Contradictory evidence doesn't really move the needle.

With science, one discovery can be groundbreaking. If you "believe in science", you believe in the ability of the method to move our understanding of reality. You believe in applying the scientific method to how you decipher the world.

It is not grandstanding and hoping people die on the basis of a scientific theory.
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So whats the current groundbreaking discovery that would support some sort of science around NOT vaccinating?
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
My point exactly.
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What? I’m supposed to feel sorry for people that could have prevented their death because of their belief that vaccinations are bad?

Yeah, sorry pal. Wrong tree there. I’m in the “actions = reactions” camp. And if their lack of action results in their death; meh. Sucked in.
 
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