Moved Thread AFL tips $25m into the Suns for 2017!!!

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Arwib

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Apr 9, 2011
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Given that 10 odd million of that is distribution money that every club gets the overall figure isn’t as bad as it seems.

Given the suns add extra money to the broadcast deal they are still a viable asset to the competition
But long term it’s not ideal for the afl to continue propping up the club

Yup, I mean the Saints and Lions both got almost $21m too this year. The Dogs got just under $17m, the Eagles and Hawks got under $11m. There's a greater degree of fiscal equalisation than there used to be, which is an explicit AFL policy, and that's a good thing for small clubs being able to compete.

A commitment to quite unequal funding arrangements is also the only way further expansion is going to happen because any further new teams aren't exactly going to be big market powerhouses.
 
Apr 18, 2005
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SO is 7 years the cut off? Shut em down if they need money / assistance after their 7th anniversary? Maybe I am not as harsh as you because I would only extend your rule to the established states, not the markets you are trying to develop.
Well, do GWS need the money? Or maybe instead of giving them a financial bail out they should give some guidance on cultural development? How is the money going to be used? Is it going to fix the cultural hole they’re in? Because that’s the problem up there.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I meant who would they currently support as an AFL side now? Would they defect to a Tasmanian side? I have always thought that the viability in Tasmania hasn't been great due to the fact it is a football state but those supporters of AFL already have chosen clubs.

Hey, if a Tasmanian club could work i'd be much more supportive of that than the GC or GWS. But would it succeed due to population size?

'Defect' to a Tasmanian side? Did WA people 'defected' to WA teams? Did SA people 'Defect' to SA teams?

To say defect is really strange language. Especially if a team is started in ones home state. How is that a defection?

Did Fitzroy people 'defect' to support Brisbane? Its more like it when compared to changing to support a team in ones home state, surely.

Anyway, I've got no doubt whatsoever that people who follow footy will become members of a Tasmanian team. A team ripped out of its home suburb & sent here would not receive such a positive reception.
 

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Apr 18, 2005
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'Defect' to a Tasmanian side? Did WA people 'defected' to WA teams? Did SA people 'Defect' to SA teams?

To say defect is really strange language. Especially if a team is started in ones home state. How is that a defection?

Did Fitzroy people 'defect' to support Brisbane? Its more like it when compared to changing to support a team in ones home state, surely.

Anyway, I've got no doubt whatsoever that people who follow footy will become members of a Tasmanian team. A team ripped out of its home suburb & sent here would not receive such a positive reception.
You’re flat out missing the point. If a resident of Hobart currently goes for Richmond, would a Tasmanian team sway him to go for them? And yeah, it’s a defection, you’re leaving Collingwood and going for the new team.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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You’re flat out missing the point. If a resident of Hobart currently goes for Richmond, would a Tasmanian team sway him to go for them? And yeah, it’s a defection, you’re leaving Collingwood and going for the new team.

Its not a defection. Its taking the opportunity we've previously been denied.

I'd buy a membership. Its all about the $ from a clubs point of view. But like any new club in footy heartland (WA & in SA) i expect the hearts & minds to be
strong from the start & it would gain further traction & certainly memberships from the current AFL membership in Tasmania, very quickly.

So no I'm not missing 'the' point. I'm pointing out the reality in SA & WA & with the Hobart Hurricanes in Launceston. People do follow local teams when given the opportunity. History proves that.
 
Apr 18, 2005
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Its not a defection. Its taking the opportunity we've previously been denied.

I'd buy a membership. Its all about the $ from a clubs point of view. But like any new club in footy heartland (WA & in SA) i expect the hearts & minds to be
strong from the start & it would gain further traction & certainly memberships from the current AFL membership in Tasmania, very quickly.

So no I'm not missing 'the' point. I'm pointing out the reality in SA & WA & with the Hobart Hurricanes in Launceston. People do follow local teams when given the opportunity. History proves that.
Fair enough.
 

basashi

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Well, do GWS need the money? Or maybe instead of giving them a financial bail out they should give some guidance on cultural development? How is the money going to be used? Is it going to fix the cultural hole they’re in? Because that’s the problem up there.

Of course you need to be analytical about where the money goes. Giving assistance to these clubs is an investment. An investment in new markets. The AFL should not be investing / giving assistance to clubs in mature markets. Especially comparatively overcrowded ones.
 

MarkT2

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Of course you need to be analytical about where the money goes. Giving assistance to these clubs is an investment. An investment in new markets. The AFL should not be investing / giving assistance to clubs in mature markets. Especially comparatively overcrowded ones.
I would dispute the principle of not investing in your biggest market. In fact I would call that a highly dangerous concept.

In any event what assistance/investment are the AFL making in Melbourne clubs? Giving disproportionate dividends funded by TV rights from broadcasting the club's games? The fact that Collingwood & co get far less than their actual contribution to the TV deal if you measure what the networks would actually pay on a club by club basis doesn't mean that a club like North that gets a loaded dividend is getting more than it should. It just means the AFL keep too much for their own purposes. North, Dogs etc should actually be getting more than they do not less but so should everyone else. It's is the clubs that are making the investment and the clubs that are entitled to the return.
 

99cents

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Its not a defection. Its taking the opportunity we've previously been denied.

I'd buy a membership. Its all about the $ from a clubs point of view. But like any new club in footy heartland (WA & in SA) i expect the hearts & minds to be
strong from the start & it would gain further traction & certainly memberships from the current AFL membership in Tasmania, very quickly.

So no I'm not missing 'the' point. I'm pointing out the reality in SA & WA & with the Hobart Hurricanes in Launceston. People do follow local teams when given the opportunity. History proves that.

I am currently considering changing my club allegiance on BF. I was born a Geelong supporter but I am a Giants member. I am getting closer to becoming a Giants fan- I was pretty keen to direct my son away from the Swans, who are a very popular club in Sydney (bigger than any individual NRL side) so I took on the giants, and it's beginning to take!

Players can swap sides, but they've only been with the club say a decade. I've been a fan for thirty years- no-one can walk away from that.

In conclusion I believe most Tasmanian would end up supporting the local team, if and when they obtain one.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I would dispute the principle of not investing in your biggest market. In fact I would call that a highly dangerous concept.

In any event what assistance/investment are the AFL making in Melbourne clubs? Giving disproportionate dividends funded by TV rights from broadcasting the club's games? The fact that Collingwood & co get far less than their actual contribution to the TV deal if you measure what the networks would actually pay on a club by club basis doesn't mean that a club like North that gets a loaded dividend is getting more than it should. It just means the AFL keep too much for their own purposes. North, Dogs etc should actually be getting more than they do not less but so should everyone else. It's is the clubs that are making the investment and the clubs that are entitled to the return.

So what is tha 'AFL purpose'?

What should they spend money on? Or maybe what shouldn't they spend money on?
 

basashi

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I would dispute the principle of not investing in your biggest market. In fact I would call that a highly dangerous concept.

In any event what assistance/investment are the AFL making in Melbourne clubs? Giving disproportionate dividends funded by TV rights from broadcasting the club's games? The fact that Collingwood & co get far less than their actual contribution to the TV deal if you measure what the networks would actually pay on a club by club basis doesn't mean that a club like North that gets a loaded dividend is getting more than it should. It just means the AFL keep too much for their own purposes. North, Dogs etc should actually be getting more than they do not less but so should everyone else. It's is the clubs that are making the investment and the clubs that are entitled to the return.

There are varying levels of subsidy that exceed the flat tv allocation.
 

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MarkT2

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There are varying levels of subsidy that exceed the flat tv allocation.
Bottom line is that profit or loss at club land is 100% determined by the share of club produced revenue that is returned to them by the AFL. Reduce the dividend by $1m per club and more clubs make a loss. Increase it by $1m and less clubs make a loss or require "assistance".
 

MarkT2

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So what is tha 'AFL purpose'?

What should they spend money on? Or maybe what shouldn't they spend money on?
In simple terms, spend on clubs and growing the game. Within that would be wise and unwise projects.

The AFL's purpose is meant to be managing the competition. The AFL has assumed responsibility for the code. They are different things and IMO should be handled by different bodies but that's another large topic altogether.
 

basashi

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Bottom line is that profit or loss at club land is 100% determined by the share of club produced revenue that is returned to them by the AFL. Reduce the dividend by $1m per club and more clubs make a loss. Increase it by $1m and less clubs make a loss or require "assistance".

lifters and leaners
 
Mar 17, 2009
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In simple terms, spend on clubs and growing the game. Within that would be wise and unwise projects.

The AFL's purpose is meant to be managing the competition. The AFL has assumed responsibility for the code. They are different things and IMO should be handled by different bodies but that's another large topic altogether.

In simple terms, yes.

That doesn't address the vexed issues around grassroots AR football, its development & support.

The AFL have control of eastern states football bodies. They are the managers. The equity of that management itself is an issue.
 
Of course you need to be analytical about where the money goes. Giving assistance to these clubs is an investment. An investment in new markets. The AFL should not be investing / giving assistance to clubs in mature markets. Especially comparatively overcrowded ones.

Except a great deal of that supposed 'assistance' isn't really.

Money for signage and pourage rights that clubs like yours get directly, the AFL collects and distributes to the Vic clubs...and people call it 'assistance'.
The AFL takes a large slice of the revenue at the MCG (~26.9%) and gives SOME of it to the clubs...again people who don't read beyond the headlines call this 'assistance'.
AFL takes a large slice of the best seats at MCG & Docklands..seats the clubs could sell as premium reserved seats, and gives a fraction of the revenue to the clubs...again 'assistance'.

Then of course there is the big one...Vic clubs buy the AFL a billion dollar stadium through decades of being forced to play with shitty stadium deals, and when some of those clubs look like falling over due to the burden of this, the AFL gives them a small fraction of what they're getting....you guessed it...more 'assistance'.


Give the Vic clubs a fair deal, without the AFL taking a slice of everything, and you'll see a lot less 'assistance' being required.

But of course, if they did that, all those leaners outside of Vic would need to do their fair share.
 

MarkT2

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In simple terms, yes.

That doesn't address the vexed issues around grassroots AR football, its development & support.

The AFL have control of eastern states football bodies. They are the managers. The equity of that management itself is an issue.
As I said, it shouldn't be the AFL's issue. IMO the AFL should partly fund a separate body to oversee development outside of the AFL.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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As I said, it shouldn't be the AFL's issue. IMO the AFL should partly fund a separate body to oversee development outside of the AFL.

I agree. But that's not how it works. Unfortunately we get administrators just keen on their own career climbing in the AFL rather than addressing the problem at hand. A problem that should not have gotten to this stage.
 
As I said, it shouldn't be the AFL's issue. IMO the AFL should partly fund a separate body to oversee development outside of the AFL.


This would be the ideal situation.

Have the league organised purely as a competition, no other agendas, just the highest level of competition they can manage, and make money.

Large part of that money (as an example figure, let's say 25% of revenue) gets handed over to another group that is all about development, growing the game and producing players for all levels of the game.

The two organisations are at arms length, but nominally both under the same umbrella body that has a few actual responsibilities themselves (laws of the game would be one thing they'd have, maybe a few tribunal/enforcement things like drugs and integrity bodies).
 
This would be the ideal situation.

Have the league organised purely as a competition, no other agendas, just the highest level of competition they can manage, and make money.

Large part of that money (as an example figure, let's say 25% of revenue) gets handed over to another group that is all about development, growing the game and producing players for all levels of the game.

The two organisations are at arms length, but nominally both under the same umbrella body that has a few actual responsibilities themselves (laws of the game would be one thing they'd have, maybe a few tribunal/enforcement things like drugs and integrity bodies).
It seems good in theory but it gets messy once you consider things like: TAC Cup (important for developing a high standard of players for the AFL, or does it come under the "grassroots" banner), AFLW (does the elite competition organisation body it and manage it as a competition, like the NBA does with the WNBA and it's not USA Basketball managing the WNBA, or does it come under the umbrella of "grassroots" footy as part of "managing the code"). and so on and so forth.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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You’re flat out missing the point. If a resident of Hobart currently goes for Richmond, would a Tasmanian team sway him to go for them? And yeah, it’s a defection, you’re leaving Collingwood and going for the new team.

I supported Subi in the WAFL, followed Blues in the VFL - come the national comp, 1987 was a strange year for me, by mid 1987 I supported the Eagles. That will happen in Tas, not the defection that Vic fans equate to changing sides.
 

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