News AFL to trial new zone rule in second-tier competition next season (Full rule changes inside)

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Demonic Ascent

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Fans are saying the game is stuffed 'because' they keep changing the rules....
No, the game is stuffed because players no longer hold their position and there is constantly 30 players around the footy. It's exactly the opposite of how we were told to play as kids.
 

Demonic Ascent

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Australian Rules Football is a 360 degree game with no offside played with the most players on the biggest ground for the longest period of time, which is something I have always thought should be protected. I am now coming around to the idea of fewer players if that’s what’s required, but not zones. The problem with rule changes is they are reacting to what the coaches do so they will always be one step behind. Who knows, maybe in 10 years time coaches will go back to being more attacking? I know in the NBA and NFL there has been an offensive revolution in recent times and they love to takes things from other sports.
I don't know about the NBA but in the NFL the offensive revolution has been guided by rule changes pushing it in that direction.
 

Demonic Ascent

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They want to open up the game but won't pay free kicks for incorrect disposal and HTB. Game turns into a scrum of guys throwing and dropping the ball when tackled.
Scragging as well, players are constantly held/tackled before taking possession, particularly at stoppages, yet no free kicks are paid. Every team does it as well.
 

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Father Jack

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I liked your post solely because of your comment ‘Australian Rules Football (it’s real fecking name)‘. That really p*sses me off when I hear some nimrod playing in some 3rd rate league in Qld say ‘I play AFL’. No you bloody don’t.

Hate the way the AFL have sold this, I find it particularly common in NSW and Qld.
The reason why it's common in NSW and QLD is because it's the quickest, most convenient way to refer to the sport. Pretty much everywhere else, footy means Aussie rules footy, in NSW and QLD 'footy' could mean any number of things. I used to rail against using 'AFL' as a reference to the sport too, but when I was living in QLD I found it was the simplest method of referring to the sport, and everyone knew what you were talking about.
 

peternorth

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The reason why it's common in NSW and QLD is because it's the quickest, most convenient way to refer to the sport. Pretty much everywhere else, footy means Aussie rules footy, in NSW and QLD 'footy' could mean any number of things. I used to rail against using 'AFL' as a reference to the sport too, but when I was living in QLD I found it was the simplest method of referring to the sport, and everyone knew what you were talking about.
Maybe a move by the AFL commission to rename the sport ARF needs to to be made
 

RUNVS

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It is an interesting idea in terms of the logistics.

If the ball is inside the 50 and is punched out by a defender that means a throw in of course. It also means though that 6 players (3 from each team) need to get back to the 50 on the other side of the field.

This is interesting to me as I am guessing they are only given a few seconds to do so, which means logically those 6 players can't be part of any zone earlier on because they know if there is an unexpected stoppage they would not have time to get back to their zone.

Removing 6 players from a zone is going to make a difference. How much I don't know but I am interested to see how it goes.
 

Demonic Ascent

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Zones? Really? I can’t wait to see a player chasing a midfielder out of his forward 50 and have to stop running once he reaches the end of his zone and see the opposing midfielder slow to a jog to conserve energy and fire off an uncontested kick inside 50 to a leading forward of choice
That is not the rule
 

harrythetiger

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No, the game is stuffed because players no longer hold their position and there is constantly 30 players around the footy. It's exactly the opposite of how we were told to play as kids.
[
Oh dear, the most effective current way to play the game is different from when you grew up. The game is broken!
Positioning is the most important aspect of the game today. The difference between positioning in a bygone era and positioning today is that it’s far more advanced now. Teams realised it was useless to have a full forward 150m away from the ball, so they adapted. It’s not just players following the ball wherever it goes.
 

Demonic Ascent

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Oh dear, the most effective current way to play the game is different from when you grew up. The game is broken!
Positioning is the most important aspect of the game today. The difference between positioning in a bygone era and positioning today is that it’s far more advanced now. Teams realised it was useless to have a full forward 150m away from the ball, so they adapted. It’s not just players following the ball wherever it goes.
No, it's different to how the game was played for 150 years - not just when I was a kid.

The congestion in the game makes it a boring spectacle to watch 95% of the time. Most people agree with me which is why the AFL is trying to open up the game. The current game allows little time and space for players to exhibit individual flair which was always the great thing that set our game apart.

We can't make the ovals bigger so the number of players on the ground should be reduced.
 

harrythetiger

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No, it's different to how the game was played for 150 years - not just when I was a kid.

The congestion in the game makes it a boring spectacle to watch 95% of the time. Most people agree with me which is why the AFL is trying to open up the game. The current game allows little time and space for players to exhibit individual flair which was always the great thing that set our game apart.

We can't make the ovals bigger so the number of players on the ground should be reduced.
The problem is with commentary. The game has changed, people don’t really understand it that much. Commentary keeps talking about the game like it’s 1995 so people assess it that way. If the tactics were discussed more readily I guarantee you would enjoy it more.
 

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shintemaster

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Witches hats on the mark? That seems a pretty pointless change. What about the tendency for players on the kickers team to jostle the man on the mark? If they push him over a meter is that a 50 meter penalty. I like the 75 rotations. Rule changes are usually made to suppress a dominant side or coaching strategy ... can't see how any of these changes are going to change Richmonds present advantage.
It's a ridiculous change IMO and ripe for abuse that they would no doubt not have thought through.

As an example I recall Jack Ziebell giving away a professional free 3-4 years back early in a game by absolutely crunching Sam Mitchell with his body in a marking contest - I was pretty filthy at the time, not because of the free, but because he was allowed to play on while 3 Hawthorn players were wrestling with JZ on the ground and it struck me that it was not fair that a player was not able to man the mark because of this. It wasn't right for mine and technically should have been a free back the other way - in the new interpretation another player couldn't even stand the mark... which seems ridiculous and an even greater penalty.

Unintended consequences...

No, it's different to how the game was played for 150 years - not just when I was a kid.

The congestion in the game makes it a boring spectacle to watch 95% of the time. Most people agree with me which is why the AFL is trying to open up the game. The current game allows little time and space for players to exhibit individual flair which was always the great thing that set our game apart.

We can't make the ovals bigger so the number of players on the ground should be reduced.
I'm not as dark on the game as a spectacle as some (I don't need more goals to enjoy a game and for mine the type of frees paid / not paid is a bigger issue) but I agree 100% on your premise. Reduction to say 16 players is the single most obvious change that is likely to improve the ability for teams to attack by foot and hand on the field irrespective of stage of game or tiredness. It may not work but it is the most likely to do so and the least impact on the game overall including not adding more rules that are grey for umpires to aware cheap 50m penalties that reward smart arse players. I can't see a reason not to trial this in the VFL for a good season or two, particularly as we move towards a more reserve style system (on the east coast anyway) as it allows the shorter lists to be less of an issue.
 

greatwhiteshark

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You cant have been around circa 2005-2006 then. Plenty of discontent then with "the state of the gane" believe me.
Been around since the 70’s mate, seen trends come and go. Rule changes to the sport on an annual basis is a terrible trend and signs of an organisation chasing its tail trying to fix something that was never broken.
The bulk of the fans will still have only one feeling after the game, did we win or lose?
The rules they have introduced have not achieved anything.

Ruck nominate and no third man up has not achieved anything other than delays.
Being able to bring the ball back into play by running outside the goal square has nit achieved anything.
Penalising players for not interfering but being within 10 m of a player with a free kick has done nothing but gift goals to the opposition for nothing.
Blaming the player with the ball for above shoulder contact is against every football instinct. (Head high contact in the sport is rife) Yet the AFL keep telling us the head is sacrosanct. Clearly it isn’t.
Penalising players for mis kicks that go out of bounds is a disgrace to the sport, I can’t name another sport where you get penalised for advancing the ball your way.
Throwing the ball is now ok, how did we get to this point?
Holding the man is no longer paid, rule is still there but no penalty most of the time. Players are tackling players who have not taken possession yet. Again how did we get to this point?

The rules were once simple and much easier to umpire, the AFL have stuffed it up and achieved nothing in the process.
 

Demonic Ascent

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The problem is with commentary. The game has changed, people don’t really understand it that much. Commentary keeps talking about the game like it’s 1995 so people assess it that way. If the tactics were discussed more readily I guarantee you would enjoy it more.
Not really, I do enjoy the tactical side of the game but doesn't mean I don't find most games these days boring as batshit. What I love about Aussie Rules is the individual flair, the skill, the contested marks, the goals, players streaming down the wing, bags kicked by full forwards etc etc You rarely get that these days, its just a rolling maul, 30 players following the footy, players gang-tackled the instant they take possession.

The game experienced similar crises in the past and has introduced radical changes to combat this - the centre diamond/square, out of bounds on the full are two that come instantly to mind.
 

Bombermania

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Oh dear, the most effective current way to play the game is different from when you grew up. The game is broken!
Positioning is the most important aspect of the game today. The difference between positioning in a bygone era and positioning today is that it’s far more advanced now. Teams realised it was useless to have a full forward 150m away from the ball, so they adapted. It’s not just players following the ball wherever it goes.
Some teams still have someone forward of the contest but I would say its clearly different and to explain I will pick on Essendon with the example of handballing around a clearance, as a junior the rule was don't handball at a players feet or if they are not moving yet Essendon players will often handball at feet or above their heads without looking leading to times when players handball to guys facing away from them or about to be tackled.

There has always been sides that try to create congestion but the way to break that is to kick the ball forward which is why there should be a player forward of the contest. Buddy when at Hawthorn would often roam the forward half of the ground.
 
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nike1

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the whole "rolling fixture" or whatever you want to call it. being released a month in advance does affect how people will be able to plan in advance of going to a game.
and what i mean by that are the fans who travel interstate to see their team play ( obviously me for example...)
 

RUNVS

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For all the discussion on whether or not rule changes like this are a good idea for the fabric of the game not much has actually been said about how people think the zone rule would affect the game itself?

Could it for instance bring back the key forward?
 

greatwhiteshark

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If anyone has had a proper look at footy history they'll notice that the rules have always been changed and tinkered with. These latest ones are lower-end tinkering I reckon.
There was 7 rule changes between the years 1922 and 1976, 4 more rule changes between 1977 and 1988.
Since 1993 the game has been continuously stuffed around with rule and interpretation changes one after another and to this day it continues.
At no point has their been a drop off in interest that would warrant the rules to be changed. It has been done for no reason at all.
Whether one likes or dislikes the modern hybrid version of the sport matters not, sports generally don’t change rules to how the game is actually played, natural evolution by players and coaches do that but still playing to the same rules.
The AFL stuffed with something not broken, and since then year after year they are trying to fix their own creation.
The game was never ever broken.
 

Howard Littlejohn

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the whole "rolling fixture" or whatever you want to call it. being released a month in advance does affect how people will be able to plan in advance of going to a game.
and what i mean by that are the fans who travel interstate to see their team play ( obviously me for example...)
So long as people watch from the couch, the AFL could not give a stuff. Particularly now "atmosphere" can be similauted with fake noise.
 

Father Jack

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There was 7 rule changes between the years 1922 and 1976, 4 more rule changes between 1977 and 1988.
Since 1993 the game has been continuously stuffed around with rule and interpretation changes one after another and to this day it continues.
At no point has their been a drop off in interest that would warrant the rules to be changed. It has been done for no reason at all.
Whether one likes or dislikes the modern hybrid version of the sport matters not, sports generally don’t change rules to how the game is actually played, natural evolution by players and coaches do that but still playing to the same rules.
The AFL stuffed with something not broken, and since then year after year they are trying to fix their own creation.
The game was never ever broken.
I'd say that since 1993 the game has been tinkered with far more by having full time players and teams of coaches, but the worst change they made was with the interchange at around that time, as that became something teams could exploit as they had the manpower to micromanage it. But my point still remains, the game has always reacted to the game's evolution by rule changes, but that the evolution has been turbocharged by the professional game in the past couple of decades. It's nothing new.

Also, out of interest, where did you get those numbers from?
 

greatwhiteshark

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I'd say that since 1993 the game has been tinkered with far more by having full time players and teams of coaches, but the worst change they made was with the interchange at around that time, as that became something teams could exploit as they had the manpower to micromanage it. But my point still remains, the game has always reacted to the game's evolution by rule changes, but that the evolution has been turbocharged by the professional game in the past couple of decades. It's nothing new.

Also, out of interest, where did you get those numbers from?
AfL rules wiki
 

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