Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

[Lore]

Quick links: Player Contract Status | Draft Watch 2022 | JHA Father/Son and NGA | Adrian Dodoro

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Spoiler: FUTURE PICK TRACKER (2023 Draft Order)

 

[FlyingV]

The fact we didn’t part ways with picks next year is perhaps an indication that we think the Davey boys might be something special

 

[Ati Tude]

The fact we didn’t part ways with picks next year is perhaps an indication that we think the Davey boys might be something special

Think it is more trying to avoid a Collingwood situation if we regress next year. Plenty of time to do something with next year's 1st once we know how the twins are tracking next year.

 

[boncer34]

Think it is more trying to avoid a Collingwood situation if we regress next year. Plenty of time to do something with next year's 1st once we know how the twins are tracking next year.

I suspect clubs with potential gun F/S coming through will be very wary of trading future 1st picks for awhile

 

[BrunoV]

I suspect clubs with potential gun F/S coming through will be very wary of trading future 1st picks for awhile

Genuine, not passive aggressive, question.

What issue has Collingwood created for itself? I look back on their last 2 years of drafting (drafting only) as being good.

4 players between 17 and 30 in 2020. Daicos this year with change and then picked Draper who, given Collingwood's history with players of this type, I suspect was in the upper range of their draft board. Admittedly Draper could not have been anticipated at 45 but they've taken as much talent with 6 picks as anyone has in the last 2 years.

 

[boncer34]

Genuine, not passive aggressive, question.

What issue has Collingwood created for itself? I look back on their last 2 years of drafting (drafting only) as being good.

4 players between 17 and 30 in 2020. Daicos this year with change and then picked Draper who, given Collingwood's history with players of this type, I suspect was in the upper range of their draft board. Admittedly Draper could not have been anticipated at 45 but they've taken as much talent with 6 picks as anyone has in the last 2 years.

Would you rather Callaghan and Daicos or Draper and Daicos?

And really they could've got all 3. Collingwood shipped their future first for 2 2nds last year because they believed it would have been swallowed up in Daicos this year.

It wasn't.

Would North have let the Pies have a free swing at pick 2? Who knows, I doubt it but they might have.

 

[owen87]

Genuine, not passive aggressive, question.

What issue has Collingwood created for itself? I look back on their last 2 years of drafting (drafting only) as being good.

4 players between 17 and 30 in 2020. Daicos this year with change and then picked Draper who, given Collingwood's history with players of this type, I suspect was in the upper range of their draft board. Admittedly Draper could not have been anticipated at 45 but they've taken as much talent with 6 picks as anyone has in the last 2 years.

They also traded out players to get those picks...

 

[BrunoV]

Would you rather Callaghan and Daicos or Draper and Daicos?

And really they could've got all 3. Collingwood shipped their future first for 2 2nds last year because they believed it would have been swallowed up in Daicos this year.

It wasn't.

Would North have let the Pies have a free swing at pick 2? Who knows, I doubt it but they might have.

A few things:

1. That's not the equation. It's Daicos, Callaghan or Daicos, Draper and 2 or McInness/Poulter/McMahon. So there is an extra player in a range inside 31 which is nothing to sneeze at.

2. It's also a bit of revisionism. There would be no future trading if clubs operated on the assumption that there could be an on-field implosion of the sort at the Pies between 2020 and 2021. They had as tough a 2020 as anyone when it came down to fixturing and still made week 2 of the finals.

By the time round 10 came around the decision to trade 2021 R1 did not look as good but when the trade was done it looked fine.

 

[boncer34]

A few things:

1. That's not the equation. It's Daicos, Callaghan and Draper or Daicos, Draper and 2 or McInness/Poulter/McMahon. So there is an extra player in a range inside 31 which is nothing to sneeze at.

2. It's also a bit of revisionism. There would be no future trading if clubs operated on the assumption of the on-field implosion at the Pies between 2020 and 2021. They had as tough a 2020 as anyone when it came down to fixturing and still made week 2 of the finals.

By the time round 10 came around the decision to trade 2021 R1 did not look as good but when the trade was done it looked fine.

1. Well I did acknowledge my equation wasn't great.

2. Yes it is revisionism.

But my point was simply I believe clubs will be gun shy. Imagine we give up our first for 2 2nds this year, fall to last and the Davey twins get taken deep in the 3rd round. I believe Collingwood potentially having access to pick 2 AND Daicos will put that fear in their minds in the short term, AFL clubs are very much live in the now despite telling you they build for the future.

If you want to discuss whether Collingwood did the right thing or not you'd best talk to Ati Tude

 

[TheGrizz]

So we have 2 list spots open for the SSP now.

We have already promised Clarke and Tex Wanganeen train on spots for the summer, but may not necessarily use the spots on them.

Dodoro also said they might also leave one open for the MSD, there is also the curious case of Michael Hurley

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, and whether he gets back at all.

It will be interesting to see who we offer to train on.

 

[ILikeCheese]

Is Rantall just a want/speculation for a train on spot or has there been whispers?

 

[BrunoV]

Is Rantall just a want/speculation for a train on spot or has there been whispers?

Pure want.

 

[Ants]

So we have 2 list spots open for the SSP now.

We have already promised Clarke and Tex Wanganeen train on spots for the summer, but may not necessarily use the spots on them.

Dodoro also said they might also leave one open for the MSD, there is also the curious case of Michael Hurley, and whether he gets back at all.

It will be interesting to see who we offer to train on.

It will be very interesting. I wonder how many other clubs have spots, as obviously the kids need to agree to train with us if they get multiple suitors.

.......

I'm hoping the SSP spots are used on an inside midfielder and a small forward personally. Someone like Luke Nankervis who's a forward flanker wouldn't be too bad either.

I'd probably have Stringer & Langford as also viable inside mids, so would reduce the need for that type compared to you. The priority absolutely does have to be a small forward, and I'd be happy to take two.

The thing with smart small forwards, is they can do it elsewhere. Look at Bully, Zorko, Coleman (initially forward at U18 level), Bewick, Mercuri, Rockliff, Caracella as examples. A top small forward can give you lots of options.

Also, isn't it "PSS"? Preseason supplemental selections? Or have I been getting it wrong?

 

[eth-dog]

It will be very interesting. I wonder how many other clubs have spots, as obviously the kids need to agree to train with us if they get multiple suitors.

I'd probably have Stringer & Langford as also viable inside mids, so would reduce the need for that type compared to you. The priority absolutely does have to be a small forward, and I'd be happy to take two.

The thing with smart small forwards, is they can do it elsewhere. Look at Bully, Zorko, Coleman (initially forward at U18 level), Bewick, Mercuri, Rockliff, Caracella as examples. A top small forward can give you lots of options.

Also, isn't it "PSS"? Preseason supplemental selections? Or have I been getting it wrong?

Supplemental selection period

 

[Ants]

A few things:

1. That's not the equation. It's Daicos, Callaghan or Daicos, Draper and 2 or McInness/Poulter/McMahon. So there is an extra player in a range inside 31 which is nothing to sneeze at.

2. It's also a bit of revisionism. There would be no future trading if clubs operated on the assumption that there could be an on-field implosion of the sort at the Pies between 2020 and 2021. They had as tough a 2020 as anyone when it came down to fixturing and still made week 2 of the finals.

By the time round 10 came around the decision to trade 2021 R1 did not look as good but when the trade was done it looked fine.

Firstly, I agree with you on the trading of future picks when you have a good F/S option coming. If anything Collingwood shows it doesn't matter. They traded out their 2021 1st and 2nd round picks, had only the Bulldog's second and some thirds, and prior to draft night could match a bid at #1 while getting in Lipinski & the Geelong player.

Secondly, on your first point McInness was an NGA selection, they could have matched him with later picks. So they effectively traded Callaghan for Poulter and McMahon. On picks looks terrible (#2 for #30 & #31), on performance of those selected may be ok given Poulter looks good. Yes, that's a bit revisionist, but that reflects you take risks when you trade future picks.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

By the time round 10 came around the decision to trade 2021 R1 did not look as good but when the trade was done it looked fine.

Disagree. They finished 8th and were losing three best 22 players in Beams, Treloar and Stephenson for no meaningful return. Generously assuming they held position in 2021, that's pick 11 for 24 and 30, one of which was used to match a bid that could have been met regardless. Hold your nerve, find another way to match the McInnes bid and instead of Poulter you can either take another first rounder or trade it for greater value once it's a current pick. Clubs overpay to trade up or into the present at the best of times, but this one was all downside risk.

 

[Yoda_]

Think it is more trying to avoid a Collingwood situation if we regress next year. Plenty of time to do something with next year's 1st once we know how the twins are tracking next year.

Best thing for us. We could go two ways drastically;

(1) develop, stay healthy and shoot up the ladder after trading away a future first, Dodoro looks like a genius.

On the other hand, every possible chance

(2) Injuries strike, players regress, the loss of key players like Hooker, Walla’s contribution hit harder than we’d imagine and we slide down and finish bottom 4. People would be calling for Dodoro’s head for it.


Absolutely best case scenario that we didn’t trade currency away. Always have the ability to trade away before the draft to help bank points if need be. Even if we don’t pursue a player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ant555]

Not really seeing bottom four given we made the 8 with basically two of our best midfielders for most of the season.
Could see us missing the 8 if we have key injuries.
Back to who we want. I have no names in mind really.

 

[TheGrizz]

Not really seeing bottom four given we made the 8 with basically two of our best midfielders for most of the season.
Could see us missing the 8 if we have key injuries.
Back to who we want. I have no names in mind really.

The reality is we made the finals with 11 wins, that's barely better than average.

Richmond, West Coast, Fremantle, St Kilda and Carlton could all foreseeably jump dramatically or just more than us, and we get bumped out.

Our pass mark next year is games and improvement from our young guys, and a crystallisation of the game plan under Rutten. We could only finish 9-13 next year and still improve as a whole

 

[owen87]

The reality is we made the finals with 11 wins, that's barely better than average.

Richmond, West Coast, Fremantle, St Kilda and Carlton could all foreseeably jump dramatically or just more than us, and we get bumped out.

Our pass mark next year is games and improvement from our young guys, and a crystallisation of the game plan under Rutten. We could only finish 9-13 next year and still improve as a whole

Our percentage will be the biggest indicator IMO. We finished in the finals and with a healthy percentage this year by beating the teams we should, and not getting obliterated by the teams above us much.

If we miss finals, but do so getting games in to guys like Hobbs, Jones and Reid, plus more in to Cox and Perkins, along with a healthy percentage, then I'd think that would be setting the list up to really move forward in 2023.

There's a number of teams in a similar range to us, so it'll likely come down to a bit of luck on the injury front which ones play finals and which don't.

So long as we're not clearly bottom 4 because we've imploded, and people are realistic that we're highly unlikely to jump up to top 4, most supporters should be able to enjoy the season.

 

[ant555]

The reality is we made the finals with 11 wins, that's barely better than average.

Richmond, West Coast, Fremantle, St Kilda and Carlton could all foreseeably jump dramatically or just more than us, and we get bumped out.

Our pass mark next year is games and improvement from our young guys, and a crystallisation of the game plan under Rutten. We could only finish 9-13 next year and still improve as a whole

Ebs and flows. A few seasons ago we missed the 8 with 12 wins which is rare.. My point is we won the 11 games with most of the midfield missing. The 11 wins being 5 or 6 more than most predicted with a full side is more the achievement than getting in the 8. Losing that finals game will make them hungry.

If we have no injuries to key players the pass mark for me is 12 or 13 wins. If we do get some injuries then we may well miss. There is work to be done on fine tuning parts of the game plan so it will not shock me if we are 10th but I still say the pass is 12 or more wins.

Anyone could jump up but given how even it has been there may well be 3 or 4 who have injuries and fall out. Personally I am not sold on the Saints. I think the Tigers will be doing a bit of rebuilding and looking at refreshing their game plan. I think the Eagles are cooked. Fremantle and Carlton should be moving up. Geelong must have question marks and which way will Port go after a couple years of heartbreak ?

 

[Ati Tude]

Ebs and flows. A few seasons ago we missed the 8 with 12 wins which is rare.. My point is we won the 11 games with most of the midfield missing. The 11 wins being 5 or 6 more than most predicted with a full side is more the achievement than getting in the 8. Losing that finals game will make them hungry.

If we have no injuries to key players the pass mark for me is 12 or 13 wins. If we do get some injuries then we may well miss. There is work to be done on fine tuning parts of the game plan so it will not shock me if we are 10th but I still say the pass is 12 or more wins.

Anyone could jump up but given how even it has been there may well be 3 or 4 who have injuries and fall out. Personally I am not sold on the Saints. I think the Tigers will be doing a bit of rebuilding and looking at refreshing their game plan. I think the Eagles are cooked. Fremantle and Carlton should be moving up. Geelong must have question marks and which way will Port go after a couple years of heartbreak ?

We did have a soft draw too. Had Kangas, Pies and Hawks twice and none of the top 5 twice. Did have to travel a fair amount the way things worked out too, but overall the draw and schedule was pretty good. We barely got flogged which was the main positive and those were early and in the wet.

 

[Keystone agony]

Im happy we kept it for a few reasons:

1) With so much talent coming OOC from the most recent established franchises (Ben King

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, Taranto, Tom Green

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, Rankine, Lukosious)

2) I highly doubt a davey is bid inside our first pick even if 18 (extremely unlikely and i dont care if it is we have pick 18). I remember 12 months ago everyone saying how good Jase Burgoyne was and he was going to be a 1st rounder ect.... did anyone even bid on him in the end?

3) Our unknown of where we actually rank? Had a very easy draw and capitalised, also did we like many other clubs get an uptick from a new senior coach with fresh air?

Or did we have a bad run of injuries and play on our home deck in front of our crowd less than any other club over the past 2 years. Also seen as a young list on the improve.

Its hard to know where we sit. Id like to think im pretty confident we have Hawks, Gold Coast, Crows, Pies, North covered

 

[Keystone agony]

Crazy Hawks basically offered a top 5 pick (2022) and pick 23 (2021) for Matt Johnson

 

[TheFrenchCut]

Ch7 saying Ronald Fego Jr is going to be one of the guys training with us as a possible SSP.

Helpfully, I can also offer up exactly zero insight as to whether this a good thing or not. He seems cool though.