AFL v Club Memberships

[Kwality]

Not sure what you going on about. You are replying to something I was responding to with Telsor. Was not a comment to you.

Conversation of Telsor and myself was not even from this thread. Got moved here but I never actually posted in here myself.

Sorry for having an opinion, unaware it was a private conversation, was it ....

 

[Ned_Flanders]

AFL memberships of course harm the clubs.

yes the club gets the equivalent of a H11 income from these guys, but thats it. These are people who are paying the equivalent of reserve seat pricing (and the big income that delivers to the club), and the club gets at best a third of that.

I am a member of 3121 for RFC, which costs just under $1100. It gives me access to less than an AFL membership, yet costs nearly twice as much. I'm sticking with it solely because the coin goes to the club, but if I was pragmatic or my wife found out, I'd be an AFL member immediately, depriving my club of $900pa

 

[Gigantor]

AFL memberships of course harm the clubs.

yes the club gets the equivalent of a H11 income from these guys, but thats it. These are people who are paying the equivalent of reserve seat pricing (and the big income that delivers to the club), and the club gets at best a third of that.

I am a member of 3121 for RFC, which costs just under $1100. It gives me access to less than an AFL membership, yet costs nearly twice as much. I'm sticking with it solely because the coin goes to the club, but if I was pragmatic or my wife found out, I'd be an AFL member immediately, depriving my club of $900pa

The equivalent of an unofficial tax going into consolidated revenue. In your example, it does look a touch unfair for the tiges, but conversely, a good chunk of what the AFL membership offers is something that only the AFL can provide.

 

[Kwality]

The equivalent of an unofficial tax going into consolidated revenue. In your example, it does look a touch unfair for the tiges, but conversely, a good chunk of what the AFL membership offers is something that only the AFL can provide.

But why do they (the AFL) continue with it - it cant be just the money surely? Is it part of a sweetheart deal with the MCC.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The equivalent of an unofficial tax going into consolidated revenue. In your example, it does look a touch unfair for the tiges, but conversely, a good chunk of what the AFL membership offers is something that only the AFL can provide.

but how many AFL members are AFL members because it means they can go to all Melbourne games and how many do it just to go to their own?

your theory only works if people are watching games outside their own club

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But why do they (the AFL) continue with it - it cant be just the money surely? Is it part of a sweetheart deal with the MCC.

just IMO

1) why would you give up a revenue source?

2) it allows them to equalize membership revenues, most AFL members are Pies/Dons and the like, not kangas or dogs fans.

 

[NoobPie]

AFL memberships of course harm the clubs.

yes the club gets the equivalent of a H11 income from these guys, but thats it. These are people who are paying the equivalent of reserve seat pricing (and the big income that delivers to the club), and the club gets at best a third of that.

I am a member of 3121 for RFC, which costs just under $1100. It gives me access to less than an AFL membership, yet costs nearly twice as much. I'm sticking with it solely because the coin goes to the club, but if I was pragmatic or my wife found out, I'd be an AFL member immediately, depriving my club of $900pa

This is the thing, the MCG tenant clubs need to rely on either the self sacrifice of its supporters or their ignorance (or the better AFL offer).

The equivalent of an unofficial tax going into consolidated revenue. In your example, it does look a touch unfair for the tiges, but conversely, a good chunk of what the AFL membership offers is something that only the AFL can provide.

But that is precisely the problem.

The AFL members get 20 odd-thousand seats available for the GF which is substantially more than the individual clubs playing off in the Grand Final. The AFL determines those allocations.

Even without GF ticket access, the AFL can offer access to the better seats it has commandeered for itself for the same or lower price as premium memberships of the clubs actually playing - plus access to all sorts of other events.

...and if you were lucky enough to be put down on a waiting list, the most glorified of ground managers on the planet, the MCC, offers an even better deal again

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

but how many AFL members are AFL members because it means they can go to all Melbourne games and how many do it just to go to their own?

your theory only works if people are watching games outside their own club

Me. I'm the only tiger in my family so i tend to go to other games becasue of that, also know quite a few people who if there's a game on in Melbourne friday night will go regardless of who's playing because they can

 

[telsor]

But why do they (the AFL) continue with it - it cant be just the money surely? Is it part of a sweetheart deal with the MCC.

Your question confuses me. Are we talking about the same AFL?

 

[doppleganger]

Lets not bullshit around here.

Repeat, AFL members that nominated the club support in package are also proper members for club they nominate and AFL pass on exactly that amount it cost to be a home club member for that club.

You are either sadly misinformed, or are bullsh1ting.

I looked into this previously when Eddie was banging on about AFL members competing with the clubs.

In 2012, when you paid you adult AFL member fees and nominated Carlton, the Blues received $138.

Back in 2012 an adult 11 game season ticket, the basic standard ticket was around $180...each club is slightly different.

So your decision to take up the extra value associated with AFL membership, actually is shafting the club you actually care about!!

Geelong, a club who has the ability to act on this, actually introduced an AFL member surcharge to their reserved seat packages in 2015 to try to recoup some losses they continue to make from the AFL members with Geelong club support.

Article here if you are interested.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/ee9789e569df672c8caa7d134ad24d8c

 

[footyfan1978]

For those of you that been an AFL member before 1990, just curious what it offered back then.
I joined it in mid 1990s but it's origins, I thought was original a VFL Park centred membership. Meaning can attend any games at VFL Park including all the Foster's Cup games they had back then and fee car parking and Sir Kenneth Luke Stand. Did members have any rights at MCG before the Great Southern Stand was built around 1992 ?
By the time I became a member it already existed so I suspect some deal was done to help fund that stand that eventually created the AFL members section there ?

Value of AFL membership probably peaked around then.
Certainly from my stand point been less value since things like Foster's Cup, Waverley Park and Princes Park went and curtain raisers too.

Cannot remember how long I waited as Restricted AFL Member before Full membership but price gone up and up over the years. How much does it cost to become a Restricted AFL Member now ?

 

[footyfan1978]

You are either sadly misinformed, or are bullsh1ting.

Neither. It is how it works.
You nominate being a club member each year in renewal and been that way for over 20 years.
The amount changes it relation to prices going up each year obviously because what it cost to be a club member in 1990's and now always increases. More recently pricing structures for memberships have changed a lot so not all clubs have same amount for being a member for 11 home games that used to be set. But whatever amount it is each year for your nominated club is the amount the AFL have to pass onto those clubs. The club itself then sends out the membership information and mail. So you end up with mail from AFL and club. Similarly any annual meetings and voting stuff as a club member you get from the club.

 

[doppleganger]

Neither. It is how it works.
You nominate being a club member each year in renewal and been that way for over 20 years.
The amount changes it relation to prices going up each year obviously because what it cost to be a club member in 1990's and now always increases. More recently pricing structures for memberships have changed a lot so not all clubs have same amount for being a member for 11 home games that used to be set. But whatever amount it is each year for your nominated club is the amount the AFL have to pass onto those clubs. The club itself then sends out the membership information and mail. So you end up with mail from AFL and club. Similarly any annual meetings and voting stuff as a club member you get from the club.

You miss the point again.

You pay ~$600 to be an AFL member, tick Carlton so you are included in the stats and get the equivalent supporter packs. Yay, you get a great deal and feel warm n fuzzy as a Blue.

But in reality you are actually undercutting Carlton, as the club directly only get ~$150. Considerably less than the cost of a bog standard adult home game season ticket, let alone a more premium membership.

Geelong finally acted on this discrepancy, and some of the AFL members with Geelong support cracked the sads....as from a club perspective AFL members hurt them financially.

So yeah, you count as a Carlton member, but by selling out and becoming an AFL member you actually cost Carlton money.

From Carlton's perspective you have gone from a full adult member to a 3 game member in terms of financial contribition....yet you probably still attend the same number of games, good for you...but sh1t for your club.

 

[footyfan1978]

You miss the point again.

You pay ~$600 to be an AFL member, tick Carlton so you are included in the stats and get the equivalent supporter packs. Yay, you get a great deal and feel warm n fuzzy as a Blue.

You are rambling on with not much idea apart from yep, the cost now is $600. Seems to have skyrocked in recent years. I don't get equivalent of a supporters pack. I get the same supporters pack as any other Carlton fan that supports the club by financially become a member. I am a Carlton member and an AFL member. I am not just a member of one group with it.
Been that way since I decided to get my AFL membership in 1990s when found out about it.
It is a good deal, but not as good a deal as it used to be.

 

[telsor]

Neither. It is how it works.
You nominate being a club member each year in renewal and been that way for over 20 years.
The amount changes it relation to prices going up each year obviously because what it cost to be a club member in 1990's and now always increases. More recently pricing structures for memberships have changed a lot so not all clubs have same amount for being a member for 11 home games that used to be set. But whatever amount it is each year for your nominated club is the amount the AFL have to pass onto those clubs. The club itself then sends out the membership information and mail. So you end up with mail from AFL and club. Similarly any annual meetings and voting stuff as a club member you get from the club.

Is there a source for this yet? So far all we have is the FAQ which says that a portion of the AFL membership is paid to the club. (see post #38).

 

[footyfan1978]

Is there a source for this yet? So far all we have is the FAQ which says that a portion of the AFL membership is paid to the club. (see post #38).

Do you not believe me being an AFL member Telsor ? Do not trust me ?
If you re-read post #39 I showed you part 10 of terms and conditions of afl membership, when I log into my AFL account.
https://membership.afl.com.au/terms-conditions-0
It specifically tells you what I have stated already that when you become a club member it means your club support package means the cost of general admission to your nominated clubs 11 home games.

That FAQ AFL site you looked at does not show that. The FAQ part of site you looked at I believe they only show the word portion now, simply because in recent years there in not a uniform price across the clubs like their used to for 11 home games.
Remember they changed some of pricing structures so clubs could charge some home matches more than others which never used to be the case. So whether a club has $180 or $210 for buying an 11 home game admission package as a member, it is not all going to be the same. For myself as a Carlton member, the AFL will have to pass on the 11 home game package price my club sells as our membership. That is $210 for 11 Carlton home games in 2017.
For Richmond members with AFL membership it will be a different price and same with Collingwood etc etc. If 10 years ago it was $109 for 11 home matches as member, it was same for all so they showed they exact price then rather than just "a portion of the AFL membership is paid to the club." For me as a Carlton member that means $210 for 2017 season.
For another club it might be just below $200 or slightly more. They vary from club to club now.

The point is, as someone that been an AFL member all this time it has always been whatever it cost to for the 11 home games membership of our clubs.

If you want the exact amounts for each club you will need to check out the 11 home games of all 18 clubs and what they cost if you are interested in the specific portion the AFL have to pay those clubs for those club memberships.

 

[Kwality]

You are rambling on with not much idea apart from yep, the cost now is $600. Seems to have skyrocked in recent years. I don't get equivalent of a supporters pack. I get the same supporters pack as any other Carlton fan that supports the club by financially become a member. I am a Carlton member and an AFL member. I am not just a member of one group with it.
Been that way since I decided to get my AFL membership in 1990s when found out about it.
It is a good deal, but not as good a deal as it used to be.

So you do pay money to your club ? No, well good luck with your projects.
AFL Members Club members make a decision to not join their club, take a better offer from the AFL - and it is Melbourne clubs that suffer most.

 

[footyfan1978]

So you do pay money to your club ? No, well good luck with your projects.
AFL Members Club members make a decision to not join their club, take a better offer from the AFL - and it is Melbourne clubs that suffer most.

You making no sense.
Yes, I do pay money to my club. $210 to start with.

 

[Kwality]

You making no sense.
Yes, I do pay money to my club. $210 to start with.

Yes, well you are a club member in deed, not just by association, unlike AFL Members.

 

[footyfan1978]

Yes, well you are a club member in deed, not just by association, unlike AFL Members.

Well, it is just not me that is a club member. Most AFL Members are also their own club members. Most do both like I do.
There are only a few people that for some strange reason do not choose a club to support. About 10% I believe.

 

[doppleganger]

You making no sense.
Yes, I do pay money to my club. $210 to start with.

So you give Carlton additional money above and beyond your AFL membership fee?

The Carlton home 11 gen admin membership, the basic season ticket is indeed $210 for 2017.

When you pay ~$600 to become an AFL member and nominate Carlton as your supporter club, Carlton only get ~$150.

So effectively you are stiffing Carlton $60 at a minimum, but actually get to enjoy much better perks than actual CARLTON club members, like better finals access and the ability to go to neutral games.

So yes you count as a Carlton member, get the same supporter pack as a Carlton member, from your point of view you are a Carlton member.......but from a Carlton point of view you are ripping them off.

Hence why Eddie is so against AFL membership, why Geelong have added an additional levy to their reserved seat packaging specifically for their AFL club support members....as the 'supporters' who are ditching club membership for the better value competing AFL membership are actually stiffing the club they supposedly support!!

You have got yourself a great deal, but to obtain the better value for yourself, you have been stiffing your beloved blues of cash for the last 25 years.

That is the choice......give your money to the club you support, or take up the better offer that is league membership!

If you didn't 'count' as a Carlton member, would you actually stop AFL membership and take up a lessor value Carlton membership??

 

[NoobPie]

So you give Carlton additional money above and beyond your AFL membership fee?

The Carlton home 11 gen admin membership, the basic season ticket is indeed $210 for 2017.

When you pay ~$600 to become an AFL member and nominate Carlton as your supporter club, Carlton only get ~$150.

So effectively you are stiffing Carlton $60 at a minimum, but actually get to enjoy much better perks than actual CARLTON club members, like better finals access and the ability to go to neutral games.

So yes you count as a Carlton member, get the same supporter pack as a Carlton member, from your point of view you are a Carlton member.......but from a Carlton point of view you are ripping them off.

Hence why Eddie is so against AFL membership, why Geelong have added an additional levy to their reserved seat packaging specifically for their AFL club support members....as the 'supporters' who are ditching club membership for the better value competing AFL membership are actually stiffing the club they supposedly support!!

You have got yourself a great deal, but to obtain the better value for yourself, you have been stiffing your beloved blues of cash for the last 25 years.

That is the choice......give your money to the club you support, or take up the better offer that is league membership!

If you didn't 'count' as a Carlton member, would you actually stop AFL membership and take up a lessor value Carlton membership??

Doppleganger, I'm right with you but I think we need to accept that some people are going to "take the soup" so to speak and that is their prerogative

The focus really needs to be on the AFL who are the agents that are abusing their position to undercut their clubs. Hassling people for acting in naked self interest isn't often an effective strategy, not least because, as we can observe here, such people tend to have an almost impressive capacity to kid themselves that there is no harm done in pursuing that self interest.

 

[doppleganger]

Doppleganger, I'm right with you but I think we need to accept that some people are going to "take the soup" so to speak and that is their prerogative

The focus really needs to be on the AFL who are the agents that are abusing their position to undercut their clubs. Hassling people for acting in naked self interest isn't often an effective strategy, not least because, as we can observe here, such people tend to have an almost impressive capacity to kid themselves that there is no harm done in pursuing that self interest.

The interesting thing is that the Carlton bloke actually has the misconception that Carlton is actually receiving the equivalent of a regular season ticket membership fee from his AFL membership.

This is not true, Carlton receive ~150 from a adult AFL member who nominate Carlton as club support.

The question I have is that if an AFL member wasn't actually counted as the club member, did not get the club hat and emails etc, would they still sign up to the better value league membership...or would they actually want to show support and loyalty to the club and become a club member?

I think the majority would still just stick with the better value league offering, as it is the self interest that they have chosen instead of actively supporting the club.

The partial donation the club receives is just a token gesture that helps the AFL member feel warm and fuzzy, whilst they are actually hurting the club they love!

The fact that the league directly undercuts its clubs with a better value membership is ridiculous....

Imagine the Premier League coming up with a Premier Membership offering, where if you nominate ManU as your club you actually get a better deal than actual ManU members!!

 

[NoobPie]

The interesting thing is that the Carlton bloke actually has the misconception that Carlton is actually receiving the equivalent of a regular season ticket membership fee from his AFL membership.

This is not true, Carlton receive ~150 from a adult AFL member who nominate Carlton as club support.

The question I have is that if an AFL member wasn't actually counted as the club member, did not get the club hat and emails etc, would they still sign up to the better value league membership...or would they actually want to show support and loyalty to the club and become a club member?

I think the majority would still just stick with the better value league offering, as it is the self interest that they have chosen instead of actively supporting the club.

The partial donation the club receives is just a token gesture that helps the AFL member feel warm and fuzzy, whilst they are actually hurting the club they love!

The fact that the league directly undercuts its clubs with a better value membership is ridiculous....

Imagine the Premier League coming up with a Premier Membership offering, where if you nominate ManU as your club you actually get a better deal than actual ManU members!!

Where the "Premier League Club" and the "Old Trafford Club" sign a contract that ensures ManU play all their games there and then commandeer the best seats on each wing for the exclusive use of their membership who pay less and get more than the club and that provides the show, can?

Nah, can't imagine it. I think it requires:

-Manu to have handed over a IP to the EPL to ensure the long term health of the game, which provide the EPL with power they then flagrantly abuse
-the UK / manchester city governments, through a public trust ensure a statutory monopoly over a public stadium (which old trafford isnt i'm guessing) that is perpetually delegated without competitive tender to an elitist anachronism

 

[footyfan1978]

The Carlton home 11 gen admin membership, the basic season ticket is indeed $210 for 2017.

When you pay ~$600 to become an AFL member and nominate Carlton as your supporter club, Carlton only get ~$150.

Where have you got this idea in your head it is $150 ?
Go read post #39 again and look at terms and conditions at 10.1