Roast AFL

[nut]

The afl denied tanking. Up until brick mclean uttered those words. That's the bigger issue IMO. The denial and spin.

 

[tigertaskforce]

What is the AFL meant to do that will satisfy all general public?

Regarding the tanking - are they meant to strip the Demons off all of their first and second draft picks for the next couple of years in addition to the $500,000 fine that they copped? Will that satisfy the general public or is it not too harsh enough?

Look at the Demons right now, they are practically a dead team, almost akin to the Fitzroy Lions - and I certainly do not want to see the club fold. Do you? Will this result satisfy the general public whilst thousands of Melbourne supporters lament the death of another club?

Incidentally, Demons are at the mercy of the AFL and the AFL has basically taken control of the club with the installment of Peter Jackson - The AFL are so controlling of them, they can't even take a shit anymore without the AFL knowing about it.

Regarding the peptides - the investigation is still ongoing. We can only wait for the results by ASADA. But I've got to ask what are people hoping for as their punishment - the drastic action of disbandment of the Bombers maybe? Banning players from playing for 2 years and let them field 18 and 19 years old who has never met Steven Danks before? Sacking of the coach and board for allowing this to happen? I mean, what penalties do YOU want to see that will satisfy yourself? Personally, I would like to see the coach forced to resign and players banned for two years (but what are the likelihoods of that?).

But in saying so, let's think like business people (because essentially, the AFL is big business) - your biggest drawcard are the Top 4 + 1 - Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon (and Hawthorn). Take one out and you are guaranteed that you will be losing revenue, ticket sales and all that other financial drawcard advantage that is associated with teh Top 4. Thinking with my business hat on, I would not want that, I would fine Essendon and penalise them where it will not hurt on-field (as that is very important) but off-field - strip them of picks, ban officials and coaching personells and fine them a lot and let ASADA do the rest if players will be banned from playing. That's what I would do. I cenrtainly do not want to see a team of under 20's playing in the AFL league. Do you?

See, the AFL can never satisfy all stakeholders. But credit where credit is due the AFL has grown from a league in the 1990's that almost let Footscray, Richmond die and allowed the disbandment and merge of Fitzroy Lions because of financial poverty to a multimillion dollar league that allowed expansion of the AFL league.

I am somewhat content with the way how the AFL is run and our club is run.

agree with you on certain points. players 6 month ban served between seasons gives a feeling of punishment for opp fans. club ? massive fine,coach gone,draft picks. and loss of this seasons points would be about right in my opion but wont happen will it ?

 

[Harmichael]

Time for a Rebel Comp.

 

[_Wang_]

What is the AFL meant to do that will satisfy all general public?

Regarding the tanking - are they meant to strip the Demons off all of their first and second draft picks for the next couple of years in addition to the $500,000 fine that they copped? Will that satisfy the general public or is it not too harsh enough?

Look at the Demons right now, they are practically a dead team, almost akin to the Fitzroy Lions - and I certainly do not want to see the club fold. Do you? Will this result satisfy the general public whilst thousands of Melbourne supporters lament the death of another club?

Incidentally, Demons are at the mercy of the AFL and the AFL has basically taken control of the club with the installment of Peter Jackson - The AFL are so controlling of them, they can't even take a shit anymore without the AFL knowing about it.

Regarding the peptides - the investigation is still ongoing. We can only wait for the results by ASADA. But I've got to ask what are people hoping for as their punishment - the drastic action of disbandment of the Bombers maybe? Banning players from playing for 2 years and let them field 18 and 19 years old who has never met Steven Danks before? Sacking of the coach and board for allowing this to happen? I mean, what penalties do YOU want to see that will satisfy yourself? Personally, I would like to see the coach forced to resign and players banned for two years (but what are the likelihoods of that?).

But in saying so, let's think like business people (because essentially, the AFL is big business) - your biggest drawcard are the Top 4 + 1 - Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon (and Hawthorn). Take one out and you are guaranteed that you will be losing revenue, ticket sales and all that other financial drawcard advantage that is associated with teh Top 4. Thinking with my business hat on, I would not want that, I would fine Essendon and penalise them where it will not hurt on-field (as that is very important) but off-field - strip them of picks, ban officials and coaching personells and fine them a lot and let ASADA do the rest if players will be banned from playing. That's what I would do. I cenrtainly do not want to see a team of under 20's playing in the AFL league. Do you?

See, the AFL can never satisfy all stakeholders. But credit where credit is due the AFL has grown from a league in the 1990's that almost let Footscray, Richmond die and allowed the disbandment and merge of Fitzroy Lions because of financial poverty to a multimillion dollar league that allowed expansion of the AFL league.

I am somewhat content with the way how the AFL is run and our club is run.

Of course there are some positives and they have taken some great strides in many areas.
But just so we are clear you are willing accept collateral damage that will and is disenfranchising the average punter. Some of us legitimately are concerned with the lack of communication and the blanket decisions which are made for the 'betterment' of the game!! Well it may be better for the bottom line but that does not necessarily mean its better for footy when a culture is potentially toxic with self interest first and foremost..

 

[WATIGE]

What is the AFL meant to do that will satisfy all general public?

Regarding the tanking -...................................

I am somewhat content with the way how the AFL is run and our club is run.

Equus - unfortunately the measure of success in the AFL is on the field - if any punishment is handed out that does not effect the onfeild performance of a club it is NOT a punishment.

If the impact of Essendon dosing it's players on peptides is not felt on feild then every club in the league is going to say "you beauty peptides can give an onfeild advantage that wont be removed, go for it, we'll make sure there are ways to pay the fines and fill the board seats". what would be the point - absolutely none.

Melbourne is suffering a self inflicted punishment of having useless corporate seat holders, has nothing to do with our point.

What does relate at Melbourne is every club now knows that tanking will not be punished in a way that diminishes on-feild results, and not only that the blue print in how to manage it has been handed to every club. Would you put money on there being NO club administrators in the AFL that aren't assessing wether there is value to be had in following the Melbourne blueprint? And I still can't believe that the Eagles tanking from three or four seasons ago has not been invetigated - probably because they "managed" it better than Melbourne and being out of the spotlight helped, harder to now prove.

Think like a longterm businessman not a short term one (ie do a Benny Gale not a Vlad Dimmwittio/Essenscum/Meltank) - if the integrity of the game is seen to allow cheating, mistruths and treating the paying punter like idiots that don't matter is a given norm how long will your business stay afloat and rake in those dollars, how long will you retain a product worth selling?

If the game doesn't maintain integrity and show that cheating will result in REAL punishment there will eventually be a major shakeup of the whole competition.

 

[Equus]

Of course there are some positives and they have taken some great strides in many areas.

But just so we are clear you are willing accept collateral damage that will and is disenfranchising the average punter. Some of us legitimately are concerned with the lack of communication and the blanket decisions which are made for the 'betterment' of the game!! Well it may be better for the bottom line but that does not necessarily mean its better for footy when a culture is potentially toxic with self interest first and foremost..

Agree to disagree.

 

[nut]

Agree to disagree.

So you are happy clubs cheat and if they do you want the AFL to protect the club that cheats so it doesn't impact on the competitions bottom line?

 

[Equus]

Equus - unfortunately the measure of success in the AFL is on the field - if any punishment is handed out that does not effect the onfeild performance of a club it is NOT a punishment.-

To opposition supporters it will be perceived as not a punishment if it does not affect on-field performance.

If the impact of Essendon dosing it's players on peptides is not felt on feild then every club in the league is going to say "you beauty peptides can give an onfeild advantage that wont be removed, go for it, we'll make sure there are ways to pay the fines and fill the board seats". what would be the point - absolutely none.

But which club would enjoy having their teams name be besmeared and tainted with the tag of drug cheat - on top of that being investigated by ASADA (who can ban players for ages) as well as the trial in front of the media? Go ask any Essendon supporter and ask them if they enjoyed their pre-season. Go ask them if they enjoyed Caro calling for the head of Hirdy. I can assure you that none of them enjoyed it. If anything they got more stubborn and defiant. Now imagine that preseason from hell on our club - my hair would go gray modding this board. So look, I definitely don't think that any clubs would say to themselves - "You beaut - let's drug up the players!".

Melbourne is suffering a self inflicted punishment of having useless corporate seat holders, has nothing to do with our point.

What does relate at Melbourne is every club now knows that tanking will not be punished in a way that diminishes on-field results, and not only that the blue print in how to manage it has been handed to every club. Would you put money on there being NO club administrators in the AFL that aren't assessing whether there is value to be had in following the Melbourne blueprint? And I still can't believe that the Eagles tanking from three or four seasons ago has not been investigated - probably because they "managed" it better than Melbourne and being out of the spotlight helped, harder to now prove.

I think it is done to death on the AFL main board on why Melbourne is shit. But at the end of the day you can not prove tanking. Unless their is a written order stating that you have to lose games from the higher up, nobody can prove it unless there is cold hard evidence. Personal accounts from officials, players and so on can only be relied on as evidence and if each and every one of them sing the same tune, you can not prove it.

Sure the AFL looked ridiculous claiming that tanking does not exist but how can they be absolutely certain that it does exist if nobody comes up and say "Hey. It does". They can't exactly point fingers and not find any evidence to substantiate their claim. The AFL stepped in when one player (McLean) admitted that they had other priorities than winning - and people wanted blood - and they got it with Connolly and Bailey being banned (which in my opinion was not enough).

But it's all about being smart in how you tank. Eg. Blooding youths and getting games into them. Basically accepting the fact that your team won't make the finals and you are putting games into your youngest and most inexperienced players. That's a form of tanking (IMO)- you may win and you may lose but at the end of the day, you're getting higher picks because you put the cue in the rack and letting all these kids play.

Think like a longterm businessman not a short term one (ie do a Benny Gale not a Vlad Dimmwittio/Essenscum/Meltank) - if the integrity of the game is seen to allow cheating, mistruths and treating the paying punter like idiots that don't matter is a given norm how long will your business stay afloat and rake in those dollars, how long will you retain a product worth selling?

If the game doesn't maintain integrity and show that cheating will result in REAL punishment there will eventually be a major shakeup of the whole competition

The AFL is a necessary evil. There is nothing more to say about it.

 

[Equus]

So you are happy clubs cheat and if they do you want the AFL to protect the club that cheats so it doesn't impact on the competitions bottom line?

Didn't we "cheat" with under the table payment by Clinton Casey to keep players in the club? We escaped a penalty from the AFL.

Either way, clubs aren't protected as you stated. Just like when Carlton breached their salary cap in the early 2000's which systematically ****ed up the next 5 to 6 years before Pratt stepped in. They had no players, they won their first wooden spoon and they had shit **** all to spend in the footy department.
So a monetary fine and stripping of picks does setback a club for a number of years. A long drawn out punishment you may say.

 

[nut]

I'd say the health issues associated with PEDs sets it apart from other forms of cheating.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

I can accept the unfair fixture, I can even accept the swans increase salary cap, I can accept the leg up up that Brisbane got and the expansion clubs. Because its for the long term growth of the game.

But I can not accept systematic cheating from Ess that used supporters money to introduce a drug program.... and now the spin and bullshit that is trying to "protect" the games interest whilst destroying its integrity. If I want to watch make believe I will watch the wrestling.
The purity of the sport is at stake. Once you lose it, it's gone forever. The AFL's handling of this will determine whether the average supporter will want to invest there time and money into it.

What about the level of umpiring to date, do we have to accept that too? Yes, it's been better the last couple of rounds, but it's inconsistency of the interpretation of the rules has had me pulling my hair out.

 

[nut]

What about the level of umpiring to date, do we have to accept that too? Yes, it's been better the last couple of rounds, but it's inconsistency of the interpretation of the rules has had me pulling my hair out.

???? That issue is an issue every year. What's it got to do with clubs using PEDs ?

 

[Equus]

Rules are subjective and are interpreted differently by each single person. There are grey areas which may be inconsistently interpreted by each umpire. There can never be consistent umpiring within a game unless the game is umpired by one person - not to mention teh fast paced nature and snap decisions that has to be made.

 

[Equus]

nut
Letting you know that I deleted the double post.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

???? That issue is an issue every year. What's it got to do with clubs using PEDs ?

So we accept it?

Yeah it has nothing to do with PEDs, however it has to do with the AFL which is what this thread is about.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

they need to be careful. If they do not punish the bombers severely for what they have done there will be hell to pay. They obviously sit there thinking the league is untouchable, but they do not own Australian Football and another League could be set up with clubs defecting to it which would leave the AFL high and dry. Don't say it can't be done, ask a Rugby League fan what Superleague was.

 

[Dragonss]

All this bad energy from the ASADA and tanking stuff is making our sport look bad.

 

[Livonski]

Said it in another thread, the AFL needs to take a close look at the way cricket is run these days to see a potential minefield ahead. Do the right thing, not the most lucrative thing.
ICC is ripping that game apart for cash. Betting/match fixing, T20 every week of the year somewhere, and thats just the start of it. No hard decisions and a cabal running it for their own benefit. Tim May's decision this week should be a massive alarm bell.
AFL take note.

 

[Calcium Man]

Have I missed something new or is this pent up rage at incompetence?

I'm also a little confused? Has something new happened for this thread to be brought about or was it just a pent up rage thing?

The problem with everyone complaining about the AFL is the same as everyone complaining about FIFA until we all stop supporting the sport they can basically do as they please. The only thing that hurts these organisations is a hit to the hip pocket. The only way to do this is a major supporter protest by not going to games (or even one game per year, ANZAC day would have the most impact but any of the big four games).

 

[nut]

I'm also a little confused? Has something new happened for this thread to be brought about or was it just a pent up rage thing?
I
The problem with everyone complaining about the AFL is the same as everyone complaining about FIFA until we all stop supporting the sport they can basically do as they please. The only thing that hurts these organisations is a hit to the hip pocket. The only way to do this is a major supporter protest by not going to games (or even one game per year, ANZAC day would have the most impact but any of the big four games).

Or simply not renewing your membership

 

[Livonski]

Well because we're all so loyal to our club we'll stay rusted on. That's why they won't know they've rooted the game until it's too late. Like cricket. Fans eventually do drop off, and the renewal doesn't come from underneath. They turn it from tribal (the essence of footy) to commercial and one day another form of entertainment will win the kids over. Game gorn.
To be clear I reckon we're a long way from that..but following the theme here of evil AFL. But hey, if they wash this Ess thing away there will be a riot.

 

[nut]

They've sold us over time that the game relies on it growing and that if we don't squeeze every possible sent out of the game the we risk it being over taken by other sports. We excepted that. But now? Now it's purely about the cash. Footy is second.

 

[Wild Westiger]

I don't understand the level of hate with the AFL in this thread. Sure, drugs, umpiring, Melbourne, rule changes etc are challenging the administrators of our great game, but as a previous poster said it's still among the best run sports in the country. And should we hold our fire about Essendon until the enquiries are finished and see what penalties are dished out?

 

[nut]

I don't understand the level of hate with the AFL in this thread. Sure, drugs, umpiring, Melbourne, rule changes etc are challenging the administrators of our great game, but as a previous poster said it's still among the best run sports in the country. And should we hold our fire about Essendon until the enquiries are finished and see what penalties are dished out?

And cricket was industructable too.... The game is big because of its supporters... Treat us with contempt and cop the consequences

 

[mcuzzy]

I've said it many times before, I no longer like the sport, I just like Richmond.

I remember a Collingwood supporter anticipating all this years ago. He said 'All I want to see is one more premiership and I'm done, I'll go and watch local footy after that'

The peak of the sport for me was 2006-2010, everything just seemed great despite our lack of success.