AFLW Draft and Compensation

[DarkPhoenix]

Actually it is. Your rant about your club being penalised and AFL making up rules on the fly clearly showed that you’re bitter about it.

But I'm not. At all. Despite what you continue to tell yourself.

We did well in the pre draft signings. It's a great start to a team.

My issue is with the system and just how vague it is.

Geelong and North LITERALLY had to submit a list of players they were targeting to the AFL.

It's not like this is a surprise outcome, it should have been the first eventuality that was prepared for.

From there they should have outlined to all clubs the way that the draft as well as compensation would opperate.

Instead they're assigning random compensation with no reasoning behind it leaving supporters like yourself confused and angry.

s**t, if they'd even said "Compensation will be based on combined pay tiers where x = y compensation and a = b compensation" it would have made more sense, instead they made it up as they went, and it makes no sense to anyone.

 

[jackess]

But I'm not. At all. Despite what you continue to tell yourself.

We did well in the pre draft signings. It's a great start to a team.

My issue is with the system and just how vague it is.

Geelong and North LITERALLY had to submit a list of players they were targeting to the AFL.

It's not like this is a surprise outcome, it should have been the first eventuality that was prepared for.

From there they should have outlined to all clubs the way that the draft as well as compensation would opperate.

Instead they're assigning random compensation with no reasoning behind it leaving supporters like yourself confused and angry.

s**t, if they'd even said "Compensation will be based on combined pay tiers where x = y compensation and a = b compensation" it would have made more sense, instead they made it up as they went, and it makes no sense to anyone.

Doesn’t look random to me.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Doesn’t look random to me.

You're complaining that your compensation makes no sense, but you don't think that they've used arbitrary rulings to get to it?
So you're fine with the compensation you've received then.

Okay. Guess the discussion is over in that case.

Personally I was expecting Brisbane to get a touch more.

 

[jackess]

You're complaining that your compensation makes no sense, but you don't think that they've used arbitrary rulings to get to it?
So you're fine with the compensation you've received then.

Okay. Guess the discussion is over in that case.

I am fine with the compensation because draft picks are useless to us. What else could we have got as compensation?

Perhaps we could’ve had a smaller limit on players we were allowed to lose as well as the other interstate teams.

These early years won’t count for much anyway. There’s not a lot of credibility in the comp at the moment. It’s a glorified amateur competition.

 

[drunkill]

North fans, as you enter the AFLW, get used to things being made up on the fly. The other teams have.

Look at the memo sent after round 1 this year, which was partially caused by the kneejerk new out of bounds rules.

The AFL have no clue what they're doing but we can only hope with Livingston in charge now there is some direction this offseason to improve things without adding extra rules to the game.

 

[NimFromSudan]

Cannot believe North aren't getting any compo tbh. They come out of this with 13 players that played AFLW in 2018. Existing clubs all have much more experience than that.

If it was about fairness then teams would be compo'd up to the same number of high quality players. If i had my way Geelong would have 5 high picks to bring them up to the difference between players recruited with North. Then both teams would get compo picks to bring them up to 16 or so quality players.

Don't understand at all why Collingwood or the Dogs etc are getting picks. That's the attitude for expansion that leads to minnows like GWS and GCS had to be for 2-3 years at their birth. We need a balanced league from the get-go next year otherwise the "product" complaints will only get worse.

As it stands now it's just punishment for strong recruiting not fairness to balance the league.

 

[NoobPie]

Your last two paragraphs are contradictory. North invested in the existing relationship, it turned out that mattered to a lot of women players, so for a decent number of AFLW players it was the natural destination club.

Agree on the rest, though - it's been arbitrary from the start to try to manufacture some kind of evenness, so no surprise it is still arbitrary. And they won't be changing it for some time, so we might as well all get used to it.

All the foundation clubs have plenty of top players left, and they've had two years to play together already, so I can't see North's signings translating immediately into any kind of world-beating combination. After being left out at the start, I'm just looking forward to having a team to support.

Sorry, didn't mean to be offensive to the reasonable North supporters

The one poster in particular who was gloating and whinging (completely ignorant to the necessary and pragmatic approach the AFL has taken from day dot) at the same time annoyed me into highlighting that North Melbourne is, in pretty much every other context, a beneficiary of the AFL's aggressive set of competitive balance policies

 

[NoobPie]

North fans, as you enter the AFLW, get used to things being made up on the fly. The other teams have.

Look at the memo sent after round 1 this year, which was partially caused by the kneejerk new out of bounds rules.

The AFL have no clue what they're doing but we can only hope with Livingston in charge now there is some direction this offseason to improve things without adding extra rules to the game.

I reckon the worst enemies of the AFLW are also some its biggest advocates who are in a permanent state of outrage yelling and shaking their fists at every decision.

The AFL has made some mistakes that probably didn't need the benefit of hindsight to realise they were mistakes. More generally though "making things up on the fly" is pretty much an inevitability given they are basically progressively instituting a top down professionalisation of women's football likely going from nothing to 18 teams in a decade. There is no precedent for it anywhere let-a-lone in the specific context of Australian football

Anyone who thinks this could have been all mapped out up front and implemented with no teething problems and with optimal success I suspect is not too accustomed or at least appreciative of real responsibility - let-a-lone in such a charged, complex and changing environment

 

[Couch Coach]

If it's an even competition you're after, you better hope Geelong nail their early picks and get somebody who can win the ball in the middle, otherwise they will be in the s**t.

As for the supposedly raided lists, I just ran an eye over their charred remains. Each club's top dozen or so players vaguely look something like below.

Team 1: Brennan, Blackburn, Conti, H. Scott, Huntington, Lamb, Toogood, Lochland, Utri, Birch, Gogos, Berry.
Team 2: Frederick-Traub, Bates, Wuetschner, Lutkins, Anderson, Kaslar, Virgo, McCarthy, Zielke, Exon, Koenen, Conway.
Team 3: D. Pearce, O'Dea, Paxman, Grierson, Mithen, Jakobsson, S. Scott, Cunningham, M. Downie, Hore, L. Pearce, K. Smith.
Team 4: Eva, Gum, Dal Pos, Farrugia, Barclay, Beeson, Barr, Swanson, McKinnon, Tomkins, P. Randall, Staunton.
Team 5: Kearney, Ashmore, Stanton, Bruton, Garner, Duffin, Hope, Gibson, King, Randall, Hardiman, Gillespie-Jones.
Team 6: Molloy, Chiocci, Bernardi, Edwards, Lambert, Bonnici, D'Arcy, Barden, Grant, Kuys, McIntosh.
Team 7: Davey, Vescio, Harris, Stevens, Loynes, S. Hosking, Moody, Gay, J. Hosking, Audley, A. Downie, Lucas-Rodd.

There is not a lot between teams 1 (strongest) and 7 (weakest). By all means runaway and hide from AFLW if that's too hard for you to accept.

Interest from a Collingwood perspective:
1: Every other team you can select 12 players but you can only select 11 for Collingwood
2: If a 39 year old McIntosh is in our top 11 we are stuffed (no offence to Cecilia but her best years are past)
3: Grant and Kuys as our 9th and 10th vs King and Randall as North's 9th and 10th - No comparison
4: In two years Collingwood have lost: Stevens 2017 B&F, Eva 2017 2nd, Garner 2018 2nd, Duffin 2018 7th, King 2018 9th, Hope 2018 10th

It's going to be a long year for AFLW Collingwood supporters.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

It's hard to pinpoint who to blame for the expansion signing period and draft order debacle.

IIRC the original idea was for the existing four Victorian clubs to offer four players each (of varying ability) and then an expansion draft from there.
Somewhere along the line either the clubs or the AFLPA (can't recall which one) complained, and we got the system we now have.

The original plan would have been better. Yes, you still give up four players, but instead of a direct signing and incentives, Geelong and North fairly take turns at picking players. That would have given them eight players each, then you would have expected them to be given the first three or four picks each in Round 1 of the draft, plus compensation picks at the start of each round.

They might not have taken all the best young talent first with those picks, but traded a number of them for more senior players from other clubs - which would have been fair.


Looking at Brisbane's deal from the AFL... how dumb was that! Okay, they lost a Victorian and Tasmanian 'home' to North-Tassie Roos, but their two rookie compensation picks are worth jack!

The AFL should have given them Picks 1 and 4 in the draft (before and after Geelong's Picks). Even though it means nothing to their state based draft pool, as GWS proved last year, that draft pick position is valuable to the Victorian clubs.

Those early picks might have been enough for the existing Vic clubs to ask one or two of their players if they were interested in moving to Qld. The Lions would then get some imported talent, and an existing Vic club could jump to the front of the line and get the best Under 18 talent.

Instead, after losing four players, what the heck do the Lions have to offer to a Vic club to get a good player to move Northwards in a trade?

 

[TheFool]

North fans, as you enter the AFLW, get used to things being made up on the fly. The other teams have.

Look at the memo sent after round 1 this year, which was partially caused by the kneejerk new out of bounds rules.

The AFL have no clue what they're doing but we can only hope with Livingston in charge now there is some direction this offseason to improve things without adding extra rules to the game.

Agree with most of this, but Livingstone was in charge during all the stuff-ups this year so if anything I'd say she's part of the problem.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Interest from a Collingwood perspective:
1: Every other team you can select 12 players but you can only select 11 for Collingwood
2: If a 39 year old McIntosh is in our top 11 we are stuffed (no offence to Cecilia but her best years are past)
3: Grant and Kuys as our 9th and 10th vs King and Randall as North's 9th and 10th - No comparison
4: In two years Collingwood have lost: Stevens 2017 B&F, Eva 2017 2nd, Garner 2018 2nd, Duffin 2018 7th, King 2018 9th, Hope 2018 10th

It's going to be a long year for AFLW Collingwood supporters.

Those deficiencies don't spell out a doomsday scenario to me. I think it puts them a fraction behind North's almighty list, with a couple of extra top 20 draft picks giving Collingwood a decent crack at bridging that gap.

 

[SCRAY72]

North fans, as you enter the AFLW, get used to things being made up on the fly. The other teams have.

Look at the memo sent after round 1 this year, which was partially caused by the kneejerk new out of bounds rules.

The AFL have no clue what they're doing but we can only hope with Livingston in charge now there is some direction this offseason to improve things without adding extra rules to the game.

Livingstone? Are you ******* kidding me?
She was in charge this season.
What are her qualifications?
What are her achievements ?

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Sorry, didn't mean to be offensive to the reasonable North supporters

The one poster in particular who was gloating and whinging (completely ignorant to the necessary and pragmatic approach the AFL has taken from day dot) at the same time annoyed me into highlighting that North Melbourne is, in pretty much every other context, a beneficiary of the AFL's aggressive set of competitive balance policies

Ah, well, that argument is with a poster I have on ignore. Would recommend you do the same.

 

[Couch Coach]

Those deficiencies don't spell out a doomsday scenario to me. I think it puts them a fraction behind North's almighty list, with a couple of extra top 20 draft picks giving Collingwood a decent crack at bridging that gap.

The problem is we didn't get a "couple of extra top 20 draft picks". We got one extra draft pick (to replace 4 players in our top 10 B&F finish leaving). Apart from that one extra draft pick our picks are effectively only 4 places ahead of North (Victorian draft only).

 

[Pancho Gonzales]

My 2 cents - why couldn't the states with just one team (i.e the ones that gain zero benefit from draft order) given up 2 players instead of the 4?

 

[NoobPie]

My 2 cents - why couldn't the states with just one team (i.e the ones that gain zero benefit from draft order) given up 2 players instead of the 4?

Should have been something like this with the benefit of hindsight

 

[The chorus]

Ah, well, that argument is with a poster I have on ignore. Would recommend you do the same.

Yes, not all north posters think alike. I think the situation was made worse by early reporting that North were "penalised" in the draft order because of their recruiting: this seemed to suggest that the draft order had been changed whereas it had never been set. As somebody who has not followed AFLW closely before, I will be interested to see how we go. I think that even if we have signed some good players, it will take a while for them to develop into a team and the season might well be over before they get going. I went to North's first VFL game and they were pretty average and copped a couple of early hidings. Whereas by yesterday (their seventh game) they were looking like a team. It will be interesting to see whether a team of "champions" can beat a champion team. I suspect not!

 

[Bostonian]

Cannot believe North aren't getting any compo tbh. They come out of this with 13 players that played AFLW in 2018. Existing clubs all have much more experience than that.

Existing clubs had zero experience when they started.

It's not like North are coming into a long running well established league.

 

[Bostonian]

North fans, as you enter the AFLW, get used to things being made up on the fly. The other teams have.

How many North fans will there actually be will be interesting.

Will it mirror the low support of the Men's team?

 

[jackess]

How many North fans will there actually be will be interesting.

Will it mirror the low support of the Men's team?

They’ll probably poach opposition supporters like how they poached their whole team

 

[Hearts to hearts]

How many North fans will there actually be will be interesting.

Will it mirror the low support of the Men's team?

Fan numbers is the only reason Carlton is in the AFLW. Pretty close to being all that's keeping the club in the men's competition. Not surprising it's your focus.

 

[Bostonian]

Fan numbers is the only reason Carlton is in the AFLW. Pretty close to being all that's keeping the club in the men's competition. Not surprising it's your focus.

Well it's kind of vital for the long term viability of the league...

 

[The_Wookie]

Fan numbers is the only reason Carlton is in the AFLW. Pretty close to being all that's keeping the club in the men's competition. Not surprising it's your focus.

Fancy that. The AFL wanted people to actually go.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Interest from a Collingwood perspective:
1: Every other team you can select 12 players but you can only select 11 for Collingwood
2: If a 39 year old McIntosh is in our top 11 we are stuffed (no offence to Cecilia but her best years are past)
3: Grant and Kuys as our 9th and 10th vs King and Randall as North's 9th and 10th - No comparison
4: In two years Collingwood have lost: Stevens 2017 B&F, Eva 2017 2nd, Garner 2018 2nd, Duffin 2018 7th, King 2018 9th, Hope 2018 10th

It's going to be a long year for AFLW Collingwood supporters.

Id go further
2017
Stevens 1
Eva 2
Duffin3

2 marques and a 2nd last year


If the Melb uni connection was so strong at north

Where's Stevens where's Eva

That's right already on the afl gravy train

So how many promo appearances in Tasmania and how much each gets paid ?

Once again seems were paying for our oposition


Smacks of the zoning fiasco , 10 year rule fiasco which was the only way the basket case of a club could compete


Gee previous relationships didn't matter so much then, when you picked up o& m and eastern football league whilst keeping brunswick

Thanks mr aylett

No wonder footys stuffed