Rumour AFLW player refuses to wear pride jumper

[Mantis Toboggan]

A person can have gay sex and still be a Muslim. As long as they know and believe in what Islam says about this, then they can still be a Muslim. Although I don’t have any kids, I wouldn’t kick them out if I were to find out that they were gay and were having gay sex.

Of course, I would comply with my own obligations under the Religion of Islam by advising them about not committing sins, but at the end of the day they would be their own individuals that make their own choices on this.

The main thing for me is that they live their lives as Muslims and die as Muslims. That’s the minimum I believe is required for their everlasting happiness after death, which is something I want for them. They can still achieve this even if they were gay and were having gay sex. They would just have to make sure their beliefs are in line with the Islamic laws to achieve that.

Do you honestly think that your son or daughter could be openly gay and still be accepted in your community?

You seem to be saying that a Muslim can willingly act in contravention of the Koran and still be a ‘Muslim’. What is it to be a Muslim if you do not act accordingly are not welcome in the community, and certainly not a mosque?

If being a Muslim is just a state of mind then that’s a pretty low bar.

 

[Beerfish]

Someone can be a Muslim and be gay at the same time. As long as they believe what Islam says about it, then they’re still Muslim.

It’s like someone drinking alcohol and still being a Muslim. As long as they believe what Islam says about it, they’re still Muslim.

So I can continue to do something decreed by my religion as wrong as long as I believe it is wrong.

 

[1990crow]

So I can continue to do something decreed by my religion as wrong as long as I believe it is wrong.

If you go out and murder 1000 people, but you believe in the religions teachings such as, "thou shall not kill", and you know what you did was wrong, all is forgiven.

500 odd of those 1000 don't believe in your religion, so they are going to hell, obviously.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

So there are gay Muslims (albeit a very small minority)

A gay imam's story: 'The dialogue is open in Islam – 10 years ago it wasn't' | World Economic Forum

www.weforum.org

Just as there are gay Christians, Jews, etc

They may not represent the majority and I'm guessing they cop a lot of crap from a lot of people but there you go. I reckon it makes Zreika's stance disappointing.

 

[Aussie in exile]

So there are gay Muslims (albeit a very small minority)

A gay imam's story: 'The dialogue is open in Islam – 10 years ago it wasn't' | World Economic Forum

www.weforum.org

Just as there are gay Christians, Jews, etc

They may not represent the majority and I'm guessing they cop a lot of crap from a lot of people but there you go. I reckon it makes Zreika's stance disappointing.

There are gay people in every walk of life.
There are gay people in every religion, every country and every sport.
To think there are no gays in any religion, country and sport is just plain dumb.

 

[Beerfish]

Good article. From the same:

I went to Tibet and saw some homophobia there as well. I started telling myself, finally, the problem isn’t religion or Islam in particular: the problem is discrimination, prejudices and ignorance.

 

[eastfreo75]

A person can have gay sex and still be a Muslim. As long as they know and believe in what Islam says about this, then they can still be a Muslim. Although I don’t have any kids, I wouldn’t kick them out if I were to find out that they were gay and were having gay sex.

Of course, I would comply with my own obligations under the Religion of Islam by advising them about not committing sins, but at the end of the day they would be their own individuals that make their own choices on this.

The main thing for me is that they live their lives as Muslims and die as Muslims. That’s the minimum I believe is required for their everlasting happiness after death, which is something I want for them. They can still achieve this even if they were gay and were having gay sex. They would just have to make sure their beliefs are in line with the Islamic laws to achieve that.

You can still go to hell even as Muslim if God wishes.

 

[Suspense]

In a secular and tolerant society, muslims are entitled to live their own lives, in accordance with their own beliefs, free from societal judgment or derision.

The concept of pride is simply advocating for the same social acceptance to LGBT+ people - to live their own lives in accordance with their values and beliefs. Wearing the jumper itself isn't a contravention of Islam - it does not imply that muslims ought to personally engage in same-sex relations (in contravention to their belief system) - it is simply about acceptance of those who are different. Many muslims are able to co-exist within a secular society with their own personal belief system.

Fundamentalist muslims (and christians) are opposed to this as they don't accept that non-muslims ought to be able to live according to their own values and beliefs. Their religious belief is not a personal doctrine by which they live their own life - it is the "universal truth" - and those who live in opposition to it are infidels, heretics and sinners - and ought to be condemned as such. Not wearing the jumper signals non-acceptance of the way in which LGBT+ wish to live their lives. This notion has no place in a secular and tolerant society - and ought to be called out for the bigotry that it is.

 

[Spearman]

So I can continue to do something decreed by my religion as wrong as long as I believe it is wrong.

Been working for Christians for almost two thousand years.

 

[RUNVS]

In a secular and tolerant society, muslims are entitled to live their own lives, in accordance with their own beliefs, free from societal judgment or derision.

Disagree. If there was a person whose religious belief told them they must eat human flesh would you accept their belief? A belief in itself is not a reason to be a complete a-hole and society should not accept it just because it is an honest belief.

 

[Bluesmond]

Don't really want to wade into this cesspool but does anyone know if old Jason Akermanis has had anything to say on this after his article on homosexual player's cost him his career

 

[Suspense]

Disagree. If there was a person whose religious belief told them they must eat human flesh would you accept their belief? A belief in itself is not a reason to be a complete a-hole and society should not accept it just because it is an honest belief.

Acting in accordance with the law was implied.

 

[RUNVS]

Acting in accordance with the law was implied.

It is against the law to discriminate against people in the LGBTI community.

 

[Suspense]

It is against the law to discriminate against people in the LGBTI community.

Re-read the last paragraph of my post.

 

[Peter Wallis]

Begs the question why she would want to be part of that community.

Probably doesn't have much of a choice. If she walks away from her community her family will likely be alienated from her. Not quite as simple as it appears.

 

[Run n Spread]

It is against the law to discriminate against people in the LGBTI community.

It is also against the law to discriminate on the basis of religion.
It is even an express right in our Constitution.
So who under the eyes of the law takes precedence?

 

[Lsta062]

Do you honestly think that your son or daughter could be openly gay and still be accepted in your community?

You seem to be saying that a Muslim can willingly act in contravention of the Koran and still be a ‘Muslim’. What is it to be a Muslim if you do not act accordingly are not welcome in the community, and certainly not a mosque?

If being a Muslim is just a state of mind then that’s a pretty low bar.

Whether someone is accepted by the larger community or not isn’t what makes them a Muslim - it is whether they ultimately comply with following actual belief system of Islam or not. That what makes someone a Muslim. That is known by a person’s belief in Allaah and the Prophets like MuHammad, Jesus, Moses and other types of beliefs, and actions/sayings reflecting the belief itself (e.g. refraining from prostrating to idols or refraining from saying that Jesus is God etc.). Committing a sin isn’t always blasphemy.

Having said that, infind it important to clarify that I never said that there aren’t consequences for living an un-Islamic lifestyle either. We believe that there can be severe consequences for it after death, which is why Muslims in general will stay away from practices like that and encourage others not do so. I would of course warn my children or other Muslims against any type of sin because I and every accountable Muslim on this planet has an obligation to fulfil ordering the lawful and forbidding the unlawful in Islam if we see a Muslim do a sin. Fornication (whether gay or heterosexual) is one of the worst sins a Muslim can do after blasphemy and murder.

I was just answering the notion that I would kick them out of the house the moment I find out they’re gay. I won’t kick them out of my house even if I don’t support nor accept what they do. I have an obligation not to support or accept sins being done around me in Islam and my child would not be an exception to that. But, the main thing for me is that they remain a Muslim and die as Muslims, because that’s the sole criteria to end up in Paradise forever - even if they end up facing some severe consequences according to my Religion between death and Paradise. I don’t want that for them, but at the very least there is an end to those severe consequences.

 

[Lsta062]

So I can continue to do something decreed by my religion as wrong as long as I believe it is wrong.

To be a Muslim? Yes as long as it’s not an action of blasphemy (e.g. prostrating to an idol). They would be sinful Muslims, but nevertheless Muslim. Doesn’t mean that they won’t face severe consequences as a result given that a high level of carelessness will impact a person’s ranking in piety severely, but the consequences for that will never be as severe as exiting Islam in our Religion by committing blasphemy. Believing that drinking alcohol is lawful in Islam for example is a form of blasphemy that exits one out of Islam.

EDIT: wording

 

[Lsta062]

You can still go to hell even as Muslim if God wishes.

Yes, in my posts just above these ones I mention that there are severe consequences for being sinful.

But, we believe that the Muslims will never stay there forever. Their end will always be Paradise forever even if they enter Hell for a period of time for the sins they committed.

For me and many other Muslims, we’d never want us or our children/parents to enter Hell so we will try to do all of our obligations/refrain from the sins and order those around us to do the same. Our goals in this life and what’s important to us is completely different to the atheist/agnostic because they may not view benefit to staying away from certain actions and practices that we stay away from. I understand that, but this means that we don’t want to be forced to live the lifestyle that an atheist/agnostic lives by due to our belief on what consequences we’d face for doing certain actions.

 

[Alesana]

Yes, in my posts just above these ones I mention that there are severe consequences for being sinful.

But, we believe that the Muslims will never stay there forever. Their end will always be Paradise forever even if they enter Hell for a period of time for the sins they committed.

For me and many other Muslims, we’d never want us or our children/parents to enter Hell so we will try to do all of our obligations/refrain from the sins and order those around us to do the same. Our goals in this life and what’s important to us is completely different to the atheist/agnostic because they may not view benefit to staying away from certain actions and practices that we stay away from. I understand that, but this means that we don’t want to be forced to live the lifestyle that an atheist/agnostic lives by due to our belief on what consequences we’d face for doing certain actions.

Have you heard any feedback from those who went to hell? Maybe it's not that bad

 

[Lsta062]

Have you heard any feedback from those who went to hell? Maybe it's not that bad

According to our belief, no one from those that died in the past has entered Hell yet. That is still over 50,000 years away from today in our teachings.

If we believe in Hell because Islam taught us about it, then we certainly believe in what Islam said about the severity of its torture. So, we believe that it’s much more severe than any suffering experienced in this life.

 

[eastfreo75]

Yes, in my posts just above these ones I mention that there are severe consequences for being sinful.

But, we believe that the Muslims will never stay there forever. Their end will always be Paradise forever even if they enter Hell for a period of time for the sins they committed.

For me and many other Muslims, we’d never want us or our children/parents to enter Hell so we will try to do all of our obligations/refrain from the sins and order those around us to do the same. Our goals in this life and what’s important to us is completely different to the atheist/agnostic because they may not view benefit to staying away from certain actions and practices that we stay away from. I understand that, but this means that we don’t want to be forced to live the lifestyle that an atheist/agnostic lives by due to our belief on what consequences we’d face for doing certain actions.

Even if you do what is required, God can still send you to hell.

 

[The Jack]

Religion. Lol.

 

[RUNVS]

Religion. Lol.

Where raping your wife is fine but a consensual relationship between two men or two women is evil.

 

[Lsta062]

Even if you do what is required, God can still send you to hell.

In Islam, the only Muslims that go to Hell are those from the group that have more sins than good deeds. From this group, they will either be forgiven and won’t go to Hell or they will go to Hell.

No Muslim that has equal good deeds/bad deeds in weight or more good deeds than bad deeds in weight upon being judged will go to Hell.