AFLW AFLW PS: vs St Kilda @Southport, 12pm

Remove this Banner Ad

Mt Isa Mustang

Cancelled
Nov 23, 2019
3,349
3,703
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I've not learnt any of the Suns players in the ALFW team.
Seems Leah Kaslar is our highest profile player from the articles written about her. Anyone know the others I should look out for?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Jen2310

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2018
18,332
27,302
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Given we are a new team I’m happy to see it was competitive enough
That's true. Plus St Kilda are quite an experienced team, it's a good first practice against another team. Plus these practice games are all more about trying new things, implementing a game plan. Results don't matter.
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
2,803
3,415
AFL Club
Gold Coast
A few things I took from the match:
  • Ernst was lining up on the wing and virtually spent the entire match in the midfield, but was never thrown in the ruck. I couldn't quite understand that decision given she had been so effective for the Bulldogs as a key defender or in the ruck. Having said that, she worked hard in the middle by laying some good shepherds and crashing the marking packs to bring the ball to ground (St Kilda were far better overhead than we were so this was important).
  • Bella was winning a lot of the hitouts but they weren't necessarily to our advantage. She'll have to work on this and create synergy with our onballers. The potential for ruck dominance is there.
  • Kaslar didn't seem to be as involved as I would have liked. She was thrown forward and I know the match report on our website said she was one of our best today but she didn't seem to get much of it in the second half when we needed experienced players to step up. I'll reserve judgement until the next match she plays for us though.
  • Thorn looked good playing fullback but didn't seem to have a lot of support around her so there were a fair amount of mistakes being made in our defensive 50.
  • Heslop is an aggressive tackler to the point of being reckless at times (she gave away a few free kicks from her tackling efforts). As an inside midfielder, she needs to clean up her disposals but she's 18 years old and needs time to develop at this level like a lot of our girls. Too early to be overly critical of her game.
  • Serene Watson is also an aggressive tackler but didn't appear to be reckless with it. Pretty reliable kick too. I can see why she was an U18 All Australian as a tall halfback last year.
  • We didn't seem to have a proper target in the forward line. Our recruiting staff brought in a lot of talented defenders but it was pretty obvious we were lacking a real target up front, particularly after quarter time. Someone needs to kick goals for us to win so it'll be interesting to see how our coaching staff address that.
Ultimately it was the third quarter which determined the end result and we didn't respond well enough when being challenged IMO. It's important to keep in mind this was the first competitive match our girls have played so you can't go in with ridiculously high expectations. The girls will definitely get better with more games under their belt and players will start to lock down positions as they are given opportunities. Plenty of potential there :thumbsu:
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
16,683
17,111
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
I know that but they have gotten experienced players from other teams plus most have played in the vflw


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Hey Jen2310, not trying to poke the bear ok.

So have Suns. You’ve recruited from the Lions, players with VFLW and SANFLW experience. And I’m sure if I looked in to it, some of those players will also have AFLW experience as well.

My point goes back to what I said in an early discussion on here, both GC and Brisbane will be weaker than most opponents most weeks.

This definitely not a GC versus Brisbane thing, as I believe both our teams are in the same boat.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Jen2310

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2018
18,332
27,302
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hey Jen2310, not trying to poke the bear ok.

So have Suns. You’ve recruited from the Lions, players with VFLW and SANFLW experience. And I’m sure if I looked in to it, some of those players will also have AFLW experience as well.

My point goes back to what I said in an early discussion on here, both GC and Brisbane will be weaker than most opponents most weeks.

This definitely not a GC versus Brisbane thing, as I believe both our teams are in the same boat.
Of course they will be, but with more experience within the league, the girls will mature and improve. But think there was some good signs from the girls yesterday. You gotta start from somewhere.
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
2,803
3,415
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Hey Jen2310, not trying to poke the bear ok.

So have Suns. You’ve recruited from the Lions, players with VFLW and SANFLW experience. And I’m sure if I looked in to it, some of those players will also have AFLW experience as well.

My point goes back to what I said in an early discussion on here, both GC and Brisbane will be weaker than most opponents most weeks.

This definitely not a GC versus Brisbane thing, as I believe both our teams are in the same boat.
Far too early to judge our women's team IMO. We've played one game to date and looked absolutely up to the level for 2-3 quarters. We also played a lot of our experienced players out of position which I believe hurt us in the practice match against the Saints. I definitely felt our girls have plenty of potential after watching them play at Southport yesterday. Brisbane are in a completely different boat to us after losing a significant amount of players and getting belted by GWS today. Let's wait to see how we go against GWS in two weeks because that will give us a proper measuring stick in regards to the two Queensland clubs.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us play the Lions in a scratch match this upcoming weekend btw.
 

Jirik13

Premiership Player
Jan 22, 2018
4,265
5,360
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Far too early to judge our women's team IMO. We've played one game to date and looked absolutely up to the level for 2-3 quarters. We also played a lot of our experienced players out of position which I believe hurt us in the practice match against the Saints. I definitely felt our girls have plenty of potential after watching them play at Southport yesterday. Brisbane are in a completely different boat to us after losing a significant amount of players and getting belted by GWS today. Let's wait to see how we go against GWS in two weeks because that will give us a proper measuring stick in regards to the two Queensland clubs.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us play the Lions in a scratch match this upcoming weekend btw.
Yes, Lake talked about getting 4 more qtrs under belt before round 1. St. Kilda had already played one practice game against Carlton the last weekend.

How many girls have already AFLW experience? I would expect it will take the first year to get used to AFL level and to build synergy.

Looking forward to round 1.
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
16,683
17,111
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Far too early to judge our women's team IMO. We've played one game to date and looked absolutely up to the level for 2-3 quarters. We also played a lot of our experienced players out of position which I believe hurt us in the practice match against the Saints. I definitely felt our girls have plenty of potential after watching them play at Southport yesterday. Brisbane are in a completely different boat to us after losing a significant amount of players and getting belted by GWS today. Let's wait to see how we go against GWS in two weeks because that will give us a proper measuring stick in regards to the two Queensland clubs.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us play the Lions in a scratch match this upcoming weekend btw.
I don’t see how Brisbane are in a different boat.

Basically halved our team from 2019.

Half went to Gold Coast and half stayed. It’s not like we lost all our elite talent to GC. The talent got split pretty evenly.

Then both clubs drafted their top academy kids, and filled out the rest of their rosters with players who weren’t good enough to get a list spot with their local AFLW team.

I said it earlier on the Lions page, I don’t see either team being relevant for at least a decade.

And it’s too early to tell which is worse off than the other.

Like I’ve said repeatedly, I’m not saying one team is better than the other, we’re both going to be crap, just one of us more so than the other.

And the only true gage of where both teams stand in relation to the other, is when we play each other in a competitive game.
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
2,803
3,415
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Yes, Lake talked about getting 4 more qtrs under belt before round 1. St. Kilda had already played one practice game against Carlton the last weekend.

How many girls have already AFLW experience? I would expect it will take the first year to get used to AFL level and to build synergy.

Looking forward to round 1.
Well let's have a look at the 24 girls who ran out for us yesterday:

Player / Age / AFLW games
Jamie Stanton / 24yo / 23g
Tiarna Ernst / 32yo / 22g
Leah Kaslar / 34yo / 21g
Sam Virgo / 32yo / 15g
Sally Riley / 29yo / 14g
Jasmyn Hewett / 26yo / 7g
Tayla Thorn / 21yo / 5g
Brittany Perry / 25yo / 4g
Paige Parker / 24yo / 4g
Jacqui Yoston / 19yo / 4g
Lauren Bella / 19yo / 3g
Hannah Dunn / 21yo / 1g
Lauren Ahrens / 28yo / 0g
Jade Preglej / 28yo / 0g
Kate Surman / 28yo / 0g
Maddy Roberts / 27yo / 0g
Jordann Hickey / 25yo / 0g
Cheyanne Hammond / 21yo / 0g
Kalinda Howarth / 20yo / 0g
Molly Ritson / 20yo / 0g
Lexi Hamilton / 19yo / 0g
Taylor Smith / 19yo / 0g
Dee Heslop / 18yo / 0g
Serene Watson / 18yo / 0g
Average: 24.04yo / 4.6g

Half the girls we played against the Saints are yet to debut in the AFLW. A further 7 are yet to play 8 AFLW games (a full AFLW season not including finals). You could really only say we had 5 girls out there who would be considered experienced AFLW players. Our list is obviously inexperienced for the most part and I think we will be heavily reliant on those experienced girls at the top to get wins throughout our 2020 campaign. That's quite a bit of pressure on Stanton, Ernst, Kaslar, Virgo and Riley but that's how we chose to fill out our list. You live and die by the sword and it wouldn't be surprising to see inconsistent performances from our girls in 2020.

I don’t see how Brisbane are in a different boat.

Basically halved our team from 2019.

Half went to Gold Coast and half stayed. It’s not like we lost all our elite talent to GC. The talent got split pretty evenly.
Was the talent really split evenly? Brisbane's top 10 in the 2019 B&F count:
  1. Ally Anderson - 95 votes
  2. Nat Exon - 84 votes
  3. Kate Lutkins - 78 votes
  4. Emily Bates - 76 votes
  5. Jessica Wuetschnner - 70 votes
  6. Lauren Arnell - 63 votes
  7. Sabrina Frederick-Traub - 60 votes
  8. Jesse Tawhiao-Wardlaw - 58 votes
  9. Emma Zielke - 56 votes
  10. Shannon Campbell - 55 votes
Not a single player from the top 10 of your 2019 B&F count joined us. In fact, only two of your top 10 left: Exon (St Kilda) and Frederick-Traub (Richmond). Your top end talent from last season is mostly still intact if the B&F rankings are indicative of the best performing players on the list (which it usually is). Based on the evidence, I believe it's a fallacy to suggest the talent on Brisbane's 2019 list was split evenly between us and the Lions.
I said it earlier on the Lions page, I don’t see either team being relevant for at least a decade.

And it’s too early to tell which is worse off than the other.

Like I’ve said repeatedly, I’m not saying one team is better than the other, we’re both going to be crap, just one of us more so than the other.

And the only true gage of where both teams stand in relation to the other, is when we play each other in a competitive game.
I think you've completely jumped the gun by saying we are going to have an awful 2020 season after one practice match in which we were pretty competitive for the most part. To suggest we won't even be considered "relevant" for 10 years is just flat out offensive. You can comment on your own team as you would be intimately aware of the players you lost and how that will affect the team structurally but I vehemently disagree with the suggestion that anyone could already know the Gold Coast AFLW team will be awful in 2020.

I watched them play live yesterday. Were you there at Southport yesterday or are you basing your opinion on nothing?
 

Mt Isa Mustang

Cancelled
Nov 23, 2019
3,349
3,703
AFL Club
Gold Coast
GOLD COAST SUNS 2.1 3.4 3.5 3.6 (24)
ST KILDA 2.2 3.3 5.9 6.10 (46)

SUNS Goals: Perry 2, Kaslar
SUNS Best: Surman, Perry, Kaslar, Ritson, Dunn

Some of the less experienced girls named after n the best
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
16,683
17,111
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Well let's have a look at the 24 girls who ran out for us yesterday:

Player / Age / AFLW games
Jamie Stanton / 24yo / 23g
Tiarna Ernst / 32yo / 22g
Leah Kaslar / 34yo / 21g
Sam Virgo / 32yo / 15g
Sally Riley / 29yo / 14g
Jasmyn Hewett / 26yo / 7g
Tayla Thorn / 21yo / 5g
Brittany Perry / 25yo / 4g
Paige Parker / 24yo / 4g
Jacqui Yoston / 19yo / 4g
Lauren Bella / 19yo / 3g
Hannah Dunn / 21yo / 1g
Lauren Ahrens / 28yo / 0g
Jade Preglej / 28yo / 0g
Kate Surman / 28yo / 0g
Maddy Roberts / 27yo / 0g
Jordann Hickey / 25yo / 0g
Cheyanne Hammond / 21yo / 0g
Kalinda Howarth / 20yo / 0g
Molly Ritson / 20yo / 0g
Lexi Hamilton / 19yo / 0g
Taylor Smith / 19yo / 0g
Dee Heslop / 18yo / 0g
Serene Watson / 18yo / 0g
Average: 24.04yo / 4.6g

Half the girls we played against the Saints are yet to debut in the AFLW. A further 7 are yet to play 8 AFLW games (a full AFLW season not including finals). You could really only say we had 5 girls out there who would be considered experienced AFLW players. Our list is obviously inexperienced for the most part and I think we will be heavily reliant on those experienced girls at the top to get wins throughout our 2020 campaign. That's quite a bit of pressure on Stanton, Ernst, Kaslar, Virgo and Riley but that's how we chose to fill out our list. You live and die by the sword and it wouldn't be surprising to see inconsistent performances from our girls in 2020.


Was the talent really split evenly? Brisbane's top 10 in the 2019 B&F count:
  1. Ally Anderson - 95 votes
  2. Nat Exon - 84 votes
  3. Kate Lutkins - 78 votes
  4. Emily Bates - 76 votes
  5. Jessica Wuetschnner - 70 votes
  6. Lauren Arnell - 63 votes
  7. Sabrina Frederick-Traub - 60 votes
  8. Jesse Tawhiao-Wardlaw - 58 votes
  9. Emma Zielke - 56 votes
  10. Shannon Campbell - 55 votes
Not a single player from the top 10 of your 2019 B&F count joined us. In fact, only two of your top 10 left: Exon (St Kilda) and Frederick-Traub (Richmond). Your top end talent from last season is mostly still intact if the B&F rankings are indicative of the best performing players on the list (which it usually is). Based on the evidence, I believe it's a fallacy to suggest the talent on Brisbane's 2019 list was split evenly between us and the Lions.

I think you've completely jumped the gun by saying we are going to have an awful 2020 season after one practice match in which we were pretty competitive for the most part. To suggest we won't even be considered "relevant" for 10 years is just flat out offensive. You can comment on your own team as you would be intimately aware of the players you lost and how that will affect the team structurally but I vehemently disagree with the suggestion that anyone could already know the Gold Coast AFLW team will be awful in 2020.

I watched them play live yesterday. Were you there at Southport yesterday or are you basing your opinion on nothing?
Your post deserves a proper response which I hope to get to tonight.

But your post kind of proves the point I’ve been trying to make.

People here have been talking up the Suns (fair enough, it’s your board), and at the same time talking down the Lions.

With the main point that the Suns list being better and more talented.

All I’ve been trying to say is that I disagree we’re probably going to be at the same level, and it won’t be finals worthy football.

You just highlighted that you’re recruitment from the Lions didn’t touch our top 10 from our B&F.

My main concession to that was that Kaslar was easily one of our best two players.

I haven’t been basing my views on the practice matches. I’ve been saying this since before preseason started.

I don’t read anything in to practice matches.

If you look at past years, GWS has beaten us Lions every preseason in the practice matches, largely because Starcevich has always used the games to trial fringe players, or play players in different positions. These games have never been a reflection of how we’ve played during the actual season.

As for my comments about neither team being relevant for another 10 years, just look at where each team will be recruiting from here on out.

It’s going to be very, very rare for an interstate top talent to nominate QLD or either of the QLD zones at the draft now.

Each team is basically going to be drafting from its own academy from now on.

We’re going to be adding say 5 kids each year, while dropping the 5 weakest players from our list.

Not every kid we draft will make it. Some of those kids we draft, will in turn end up being delisted as a bottom 5 player, four or five years after they’re drafted.

Losing one talented player a year will have an impact on our sides.

We’re talking semi-professional athletes at the moment, who might have work, or family/pregnancy, or other life events impact on their ability or desire to play football for a decade plus. There might be the odd player enticed to play for a successful Vic team, or GWS.

It comes down to a simple numbers game. Neither club will produce enough, good enough players, to account for the natural loss of players to retirement or elsewhere.


You look at the first 3 years of the Lions teams. We had all the best players from QLD, both Lions and GC academy players. As well as top players from WA, TAS and Vic, and we were competitive, but not genuinely elite.

I’ll readily admit we over achieved in our first two years.

Last year, as soon as we lost talent to the first expansion teams, we dropped down the ladder.

Now it’s happened again, and we’re significantly weaker than last year.

Yet there’s people here talking up GC, over the Lions, even though the Lions still retain a greater number of more experienced core of players than what GC was able to recruit.

I’m not saying either team is better than the other yet. We can have that discussion after we play each other, and then at seasons end.

I’m just saying if anyone thinks finals is realistic for either team, they should check their expectations. This season, and in the medium term.
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
2,803
3,415
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Your post deserves a proper response which I hope to get to tonight.
I'll just reply to this post for now and we can have a deeper discussion later. In my last post I tried to provide statistics and facts that counter your post because I felt your post was largely opinion based and lacked any real evidence to back up the claims.

But your post kind of proves the point I’ve been trying to make.

People here have been talking up the Suns (fair enough, it’s your board), and at the same time talking down the Lions.

With the main point that the Suns list being better and more talented.
This seems almost impossible to quantify at the moment and is largely subjective. As you pointed out, it's not surprising to see GC supporters optimistic about their own team.

All I’ve been trying to say is that I disagree we’re probably going to be at the same level, and it won’t be finals worthy football.

You just highlighted that you’re recruitment from the Lions didn’t touch our top 10 from our B&F.

My main concession to that was that Kaslar was easily one of our best two players.
I don't understand how you can conclude that we're "probably going to be at the same level" in 2020. It's clear you don't have any confidence in your own team but I'm baffled by your constant suggestion that we are also at that level without any real evidence.

If Kaslar was truly a top two player at your club last season then I find it hard to believe missing two games would drop her out of the top 10 entirely. I'm willing to concede I don't know enough about the B&F process at the Lions and there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for her being a top two player who played five of seven games last season yet didn't finish in the top 10 of the B&F count. Please explain if this is the case.

I haven’t been basing my views on the practice matches. I’ve been saying this since before preseason started.

I don’t read anything in to practice matches.

If you look at past years, GWS has beaten us Lions every preseason in the practice matches, largely because Starcevich has always used the games to trial fringe players, or play players in different positions. These games have never been a reflection of how we’ve played during the actual season.

As for my comments about neither team being relevant for another 10 years, just look at where each team will be recruiting from here on out.
Generally speaking, I would agree that practice matches aren't often indicative of how a team will go but given we (and the Saints) are expansion clubs, the teams which took the field on Saturday would be closer to our round 1 team than other more established AFLW clubs. I don't know if Lakey is going to continue to play Kaslar as a forward and Ernst as a winger but there's a reason why he did that in our first (and possibly only) competitive match before round 1.

I'm not overly worried with the recruiting given the amount of All-Australians our zone/academy produces each season and adding Darwin into our academy zone from 2020 onward should ensure even more high end talent ends up on our list each season.

It’s going to be very, very rare for an interstate top talent to nominate QLD or either of the QLD zones at the draft now.

Each team is basically going to be drafting from its own academy from now on.

We’re going to be adding say 5 kids each year, while dropping the 5 weakest players from our list.

Not every kid we draft will make it. Some of those kids we draft, will in turn end up being delisted as a bottom 5 player, four or five years after they’re drafted.

Losing one talented player a year will have an impact on our sides.
I don't believe we (the Suns) will be as reliant on interstate players to make us competitive. Our zone/academy has a good history of producing high end talent at the draft each year.
  • 2019 U18 AAs - Ellie Hampson (Townsville), Serene Watson (Gold Coast), Kitara Whap-Farrar (Cairns)
  • 2018 U18 AAs - Lauren Bella (Mackay) Serene Watson (Gold Coast/Underager)
  • 2017 U18 AAs - Arianna Clarke (Gold Coast), Kalinda Howarth (Gold Coast), Lauren Bella (Mackay/Underager)
  • 2016 U18 AAs - Ruby Blair (Gold Coast), Shaleise Law (Townsville), Arianna Clarke (Gold Coast/Underager)
I believe this is going to continue this year with three of the four Queenslanders chosen for the 2020 NAB U18 AFL Women's Academy hailing from our zone - Annise Bradfield (Gold Coast), Daisy D'Arcy (Townsville) and Maddison Levi (Gold Coast). If we're consistently producing multiple All-Australian U18 players each year then we don't need the interstate players as badly as some other teams. I'm not sure the same can be said about Brisbane.

We’re talking semi-professional athletes at the moment, who might have work, or family/pregnancy, or other life events impact on their ability or desire to play football for a decade plus. There might be the odd player enticed to play for a successful Vic team, or GWS.

It comes down to a simple numbers game. Neither club will produce enough, good enough players, to account for the natural loss of players to retirement or elsewhere.
Disagree with our academy/zone. See response above.

You look at the first 3 years of the Lions teams. We had all the best players from QLD, both Lions and GC academy players. As well as top players from WA, TAS and Vic, and we were competitive, but not genuinely elite.

I’ll readily admit we over achieved in our first two years.

Last year, as soon as we lost talent to the first expansion teams, we dropped down the ladder.

Now it’s happened again, and we’re significantly weaker than last year.
You may feel differently but this is just my opinion on the Lions list over the years. Retrospectively, I think it's definitely fair to say Brisbane's list was overloaded with talent in 2017. Losing local girl Tayla Harris after the first season was a body blow (pun intended) that would only be felt later as depth began to fade. Getting Nat Exon was a nice consolation though. After season two, we began seeing interstate players like Ashmore and Gibson leave and the start of Gold Coast talents leaving like Jamie Stanton. The conclusion of season three saw all the shackles come off with multiple high end interstate players like Exon and Frederick-Traub leaving Queensland and players from our zone like Kaslar, Bella and Groves-Little choosing to come home. We were also able to convince local Brisbane players like Virgo to join us which made the situation so much worse for the Lions.

Bottom line. Brisbane are now heavily reliant on their own zone and they simply don't produce high end talent often enough to be competitive. I believe we produce more high end talent on a more regular basis and have the advantage of the Darwin zone to ensure we don't suffer the same fate as the Lions. That's my opinion.
Yet there’s people here talking up GC, over the Lions, even though the Lions still retain a greater number of more experienced core of players than what GC was able to recruit.

I’m not saying either team is better than the other yet. We can have that discussion after we play each other, and then at seasons end.

I’m just saying if anyone thinks finals is realistic for either team, they should check their expectations. This season, and in the medium term.
This is the great thing about football. You really have no idea how your team will go until they have played round 1. Did anyone think Brisbane were going to play in the AFLW grand finals in their first two seasons after their first preseason game in 2017? I would suggest the answer would have been a stern no.
 

Sunny_

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 18, 2011
18,630
13,637
Everett
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
New England Patriots
I'd be surprised if we won a game this year. And I'm perfectly happy with that. We need to start from somewhere. These initial years though will be a slog.

I'll be very happy to stand corrected.
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
2,803
3,415
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I'd be surprised if we won a game this year. And I'm perfectly happy with that. We need to start from somewhere. These initial years though will be a slog.

I'll be very happy to stand corrected.
Yeesh! Not expecting a single win?!?!
 

kreglze

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 28, 2011
17,378
15,526
Melbourne
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Arsenal
Knowing someone who plays in the AFLW in Victoria, and she holds a similar opinion, she doesn't think much of the Suns list.

Obviously only one persons opinion.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad