Autopsy AFLW Round 1, 2020: St.Kilda v Western Bulldogs

Who Wins?

  • Saints

    Votes: 11 68.8%
  • Bulldogs

    Votes: 5 31.3%

  • Total voters
    16
Jun 14, 2015
1,492
11,198
Oslo
AFL Club
St Kilda
Went along today. Firstly (and most importantly), amazing to have the Saints colors running around at Moorabbin again.

I am sure there is some legal / insurance reason (beyond the clubs control) why attendance is capped at 8000. But for anyone who can remember Moorabbin, calling that 'capacity' is a little bit laughable. Anyway, it is what it is. Special thanks to the club staff for wandering up and down the queue handing out water, mini-footys etc. It might be a small touch, but when you are waiting outside for a little bit to even get in, it does show some appreciation.

Great also to see the amount if kids there, especially little girls in Saints colors. Would be great if we could buddy some of these kids up with the female players at training / clinics etc. Looking at the crowd, this concept is going to rely on those 6-13yo boys and girls becoming diehard supporters like the rest of us (just for the womens game)!

Have to say as a supporter the atmosphere was kinda strange. Wanted to support, but didn't automatically have the same attachment as I do to the men's team. Certainly there were some supporters watching the game and barracking, but a number of others were there for the event (rather than the game). Great start getting those people there. But interested to see how the attendances go over the next year or 2. Fingers crossed those who come along become more and more engaged.

Flicked on SEN on the way home to listen for post game analysis (given they had commentated the game). Aside from mentioning the return to Moorabbin 20 times, how large the crowd was, and some never-ending conversation about parking, there wasn't much real analysis of the game. That can certainly be improved!

As for the game, I need to preface this by saying that I am not in any way an expert on the specifics of the women's game. But from my view, I couldn't question the girls effort for a second.

One thing that did stand out was our structure (or lack thereof). When we were able to maintain some shape, especially in the forwardline, we looked pretty dangerous. Not sure of stats, but I would have thought I50s would have been almost identical. Sadly too often our forwards seemed to get sucked waaay too high, and we got killed on the intercept. Maybe that was damage limitation after the first quarter. But fingers crossed that irons itself out over the next few weeks and we actually have some forwards in place to lead at the ball carrier. Looked pretty good in the last quarter when the forwardline actually played as forwards - and not additional defenders / mids that push forward. Maybe that is just a symptom of the difference between girls and boys game (with most players not being able to kick as far) and I am just ignorant of women's footy. But geez we seemed to play better when our forwards played in the forwardline.

On that note, can anyone answer me why women's footy is played on the same size oval as men's? Seems like it would really increase scoring, and potentially open up the game, if you reduced the oval size. Women's cricket brings the rope in. Junior games / those played internationally are often played on smaller grounds. It helps. Maybe even reduce the teams by a couple more players on the field too in order to balance it out. No reason why small changes cant be made to accommodate different people playing the game. Just my 2 cents.

Anyway, given the crowd numbers and the nostalgic location, surely today must be seen by the club as a success. Honestly not sure if I will go down again this year. Maybe in years to come as the concept evolves. But very proud to be able to say I was there for the girls first AFLW game. Strongly encourage all Sainters to keep an open mind and (if you can) get down and have a look!
 
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Gonna take a while for any new team to settle of course.
Remember the GWS men's teams getting smashed regularly early days even with all those high draft picks.
So yeah the loss is a bit disappointing but overall what a bloody fantastic day for our club. The whole spectacle looked awesome on television.
Was a shame it was such a blustery windy day though.
Patrikios looks like she might be a bloody awesome draft pick.
And that Molly McDonald was a little ripper.
Look forward to seeing the excitement on the girls faces when they get their first win.

Nathan Burke was all class as well yesterday .
 
Jan 10, 2011
34,367
57,683
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
Went along today. Firstly (and most importantly), amazing to have the Saints colors running around at Moorabbin again.

I am sure there is some legal / insurance reason (beyond the clubs control) why attendance is capped at 8000. But for anyone who can remember Moorabbin, calling that 'capacity' is a little bit laughable. Anyway, it is what it is. Special thanks to the club staff for wandering up and down the queue handing out water, mini-footys etc. It might be a small touch, but when you are waiting outside for a little bit to even get in, it does show some appreciation.

Great also to see the amount if kids there, especially little girls in Saints colors. Would be great if we could buddy some of these kids up with the female players at training / clinics etc. Looking at the crowd, this concept is going to rely on those 6-13yo boys and girls becoming diehard supporters like the rest of us (just for the womens game)!

Have to say as a supporter the atmosphere was kinda strange. Wanted to support, but didn't automatically have the same attachment as I do to the men's team. Certainly there were some supporters watching the game and barracking, but a number of others were there for the event (rather than the game). Great start getting those people there. But interested to see how the attendances go over the next year or 2. Fingers crossed those who come along become more and more engaged.

Flicked on SEN on the way home to listen for post game analysis (given they had commentated the game). Aside from mentioning the return to Moorabbin 20 times, how large the crowd was, and some never-ending conversation about parking, there wasn't much real analysis of the game. That can certainly be improved!

As for the game, I need to preface this by saying that I am not in any way an expert on the specifics of the women's game. But from my view, I couldn't question the girls effort for a second.

One thing that did stand out was our structure (or lack thereof). When we were able to maintain some shape, especially in the forwardline, we looked pretty dangerous. Not sure of stats, but I would have thought I50s would have been almost identical. Sadly too often our forwards seemed to get sucked waaay too high, and we got killed on the intercept. Maybe that was damage limitation after the first quarter. But fingers crossed that irons itself out over the next few weeks and we actually have some forwards in place to lead at the ball carrier. Looked pretty good in the last quarter when the forwardline actually played as forwards - and not additional defenders / mids that push forward. Maybe that is just a symptom of the difference between girls and boys game (with most players not being able to kick as far) and I am just ignorant of women's footy. But geez we seemed to play better when our forwards played in the forwardline.

On that note, can anyone answer me why women's footy is played on the same size oval as men's? Seems like it would really increase scoring, and potentially open up the game, if you reduced the oval size. Maybe even reduce the teams by a couple of players on the field too in order to balance it out. No reason why small changes cant be made to accommodate different people playing the game. Just my 2 cents.

Anyway, given the crowd numbers and the nostalgic location, surely today must be seen by the club as a success. Honestly not sure if I will go down again this year. Maybe in years to come as the concept evolves. But very proud to be able to say I was there for the girls first AFLW game. Strongly encourage all Sainters to keep an open mind and (if you can) get down and have a look!
If they play on smaller grounds they could never play before a men’s game because there wouldn’t be time to turn the ground around. I’m unsure we want some games on small grounds and some on big. Also don’t they only have 16 on a side. I’m not sure scoring increases until skill increases so they can clear packs. That’s why the scoring is lower. Also the games are nearly 40% shorter.
 

Gosaints12

Premiership Player
Sep 10, 2018
3,305
2,455
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Ferrari
I’m going on Sunday, (hopefully). Anyone know if we got a preview going like we do for the boys?
 

Rickee

All Australian
May 23, 2016
709
836
Horsham, Victoria
AFL Club
St Kilda
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Port Melbourne; Kalkee; Horsham Demons
I had a fantastic time yesterday. Have seen a lot of VFLW and SFL womens footy, and thought the action was an appropriate step up in skill. Our girls definately got jumped, but worked their way into the game and were beaten but hardly disgraced.

Crowd where I was were generally very well behaved, lots of kids and families, which was good to see. I do have some thoughts on the match day experience, though.

* I'm an AFLW member, and I went with my Dad, who is not. Asked when we arrived (hour plus early) if I could bring him in as a guest, the guy had no idea and went off to "check with someone". The lines were so long that we gave up and joined the GA queue, but I think that should have been either a solid yes or no answer, it probably happened more than once.
* I thought playing obnoxious dance music at every break was unnecessary, and it was far too loud for my taste. There were speakers every few meters on the boundary line, so it was almost impossible to get away from unless you wanted to lose your spot.
* The dance cam, emoji cam, etc, is embarrassing and should go away immediately.
* It was a pity the players did not come around the boundary to sign autographs, etc. I know it was the first game, but all the Bulldogs players did so and I was a bit disappointed not to see our girls greet the crowd.

Aside from that, the ground coped very well, the lines were quick and trouble free and facilities seemed adequate. I hope we get a reasonable crowd vs Melbourne, I certainly will be back.
 
If they play on smaller grounds they could never play before a men’s game because there wouldn’t be time to turn the ground around. I’m unsure we want some games on small grounds and some on big. Also don’t they only have 16 on a side. I’m not sure scoring increases until skill increases so they can clear packs. That’s why the scoring is lower. Also the games are nearly 40% shorter.
Yeah good point with the 40% shorter games.
I think some people just have to get their head around that its a different game to the men's and low scores might be the norm.
And that's fine. Things will improve of course with professionalism in regards to skills like you say.
Personally i like watching the AFLW but I don't compare it to the AFL at all.
Its quite amazing how much local women's footy has grown in the last few yrs.
There is definitely a market for Women's footy. The AFLW gets much bigger crowds than the VFL.
And I don't buy into the " people only go cos its free" argument.
People don't go to watch stuff they don't like cos its free.
And like Joffaboy said if you like it watch it.
If you don't then don't watch it. Simple.
 
Jan 10, 2011
34,367
57,683
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
I had a fantastic time yesterday. Have seen a lot of VFLW and SFL womens footy, and thought the action was an appropriate step up in skill. Our girls definately got jumped, but worked their way into the game and were beaten but hardly disgraced.

Crowd where I was were generally very well behaved, lots of kids and families, which was good to see. I do have some thoughts on the match day experience, though.

* I'm an AFLW member, and I went with my Dad, who is not. Asked when we arrived (hour plus early) if I could bring him in as a guest, the guy had no idea and went off to "check with someone". The lines were so long that we gave up and joined the GA queue, but I think that should have been either a solid yes or no answer, it probably happened more than once.
* I thought playing obnoxious dance music at every break was unnecessary, and it was far too loud for my taste. There were speakers every few meters on the boundary line, so it was almost impossible to get away from unless you wanted to lose your spot.
* The dance cam, emoji cam, etc, is embarrassing and should go away immediately.
* It was a pity the players did not come around the boundary to sign autographs, etc. I know it was the first game, but all the Bulldogs players did so and I was a bit disappointed not to see our girls greet the crowd.

Aside from that, the ground coped very well, the lines were quick and trouble free and facilities seemed adequate. I hope we get a reasonable crowd vs Melbourne, I certainly will be back.
Got to be honest and suggest after losing they had no interest in signing anything. I hope they were hurting
 
Jan 10, 2011
34,367
57,683
AFL Club
St Kilda
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Ormond AFC
Yeah good point with the 40% shorter games.
I think some people just have to get their head around that its a different game to the men's and low scores might be the norm.
And that's fine. Things will improve of course with professionalism in regards to skills like you say.
Personally i like watching the AFLW but I don't compare it to the AFL at all.
Its quite amazing how much local women's footy has grown in the last few yrs.
There is definitely a market for Women's footy. The AFLW gets much bigger crowds than the VFL.
And I don't buy into the " people only go cos its free" argument.
People don't go to watch stuff they don't like cos its free.
And like Joffaboy said if you like it watch it.
If you don't then don't watch it. Simple.
It’s free to go to sandown and watch the races. They get about 40 non owners there. It’s free to watch my club Ormond play footy. We get about 40 non parents there. I wasn’t be going to the women’s footy because I don’t like it If I liked it and it cost a few dollars I’d be there for sure.
 

Saintbloke

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 26, 2015
5,712
10,183
AFL Club
St Kilda
A good day for the Saints generally, but sadly we lost. I thought the backline was a bit slow, but it's early days for the gals.
 
Dec 4, 2000
51,665
125,136
The Bay
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St Kilda
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NO Saints LUFC
It’s free to go to sandown and watch the races. They get about 40 non owners there. It’s free to watch my club Ormond play footy. We get about 40 non parents there. I wasn’t be going to the women’s footy because I don’t like it If I liked it and it cost a few dollars I’d be there for sure.
Saw the Saints prior to some Sandy games last year and it is much better live than on TV.
I reckon it is popular because women have always loved this football code in greater % than any football code.
Now the women are taken seriously on field reckon women he got even greater ownership of the game.

Look at the growth of it in a few short years.
Then compare how BBL has fallen off a cliff.
 
Yeah good point with the 40% shorter games.
I think some people just have to get their head around that its a different game to the men's and low scores might be the norm.
And that's fine. Things will improve of course with professionalism in regards to skills like you say.
Personally i like watching the AFLW but I don't compare it to the AFL at all.
Its quite amazing how much local women's footy has grown in the last few yrs.
There is definitely a market for Women's footy. The AFLW gets much bigger crowds than the VFL.
And I don't buy into the " people only go cos its free" argument.
People don't go to watch stuff they don't like cos its free.
And like Joffaboy said if you like it watch it.
If you don't then don't watch it. Simple.


Yeah, my son was whinging about the low scores and I had to point out that he'll sit through 90 plus minutes of soccer to see a nil all draw. The girls are going to play a different brand. if I was setting up a girls team I'd stack it with running players. It's more a ground ball game and talls very rarely impact. Tayla Harris is probably the only consistent tall forward and she kicked like 9 or 11 goals of something last year. At some point some of the taller girls will come on but at the moment it's not lending itself to the mens blueprint.
 
Jun 14, 2015
1,492
11,198
Oslo
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yeah, my son was whinging about the low scores and I had to point out that he'll sit through 90 plus minutes of soccer to see a nil all draw. The girls are going to play a different brand. if I was setting up a girls team I'd stack it with running players. It's more a ground ball game and talls very rarely impact. Tayla Harris is probably the only consistent tall forward and she kicked like 9 or 11 goals of something last year. At some point some of the taller girls will come on but at the moment it's not lending itself to the mens blueprint.
Interestingly that is only a blueprint for the men's game that has emerged in very recent times. Men's football had 100 years to develop skills before defensive concepts like zones, flooding etc were properly introduced. Thinking back to footy in the late 80s and 90s, forwards were able to play 1v1 out of the goal-square. Nobody ever commented on the defensive running of Lockett, Ablett, Dunstall, Carey etc. Watch a game from the 60s or 70s. Tackling is basically non-existent (not in its modern form anyway).

These girls teams are adopting modern defensive tactics (tackling, zones, defensive forwards etc) but without the offensive weapons men's teams have to overcome them (45+ metre kicking, fulltime fitness programs etc). Hell most professional men's teams struggle to overcome the congestion that coaches create by putting everyone within a kick and a half of the football. It makes for an uglier spectacle and lower scoring in the men's game. In some ways it was inevitable that this would also impact the women's game, just to a greater degree. For coaches who might only have a 3 month window a year with players, it is easier to simply emphasise effort, being strong in the contest, defensive workrate etc. Its crap to watch but it keeps you in the game. Just ask Cho. He lasted years on that with no need for a Plan B.

Hence my previous question about oval size. Women's cricket simply brings the rope in. Junior teams that cant kick as far play on smaller setups. When I played Aussie Rules internationally we had smaller grounds and players were restricted to zones. Stopped everyone huddling around the contest and really made the ball ping around the field.

Again, I am no expert on women's footy. But watching yesterday it seems far more of a congestion issue than a skill issue per se.
 
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Yeah, my son was whinging about the low scores and I had to point out that he'll sit through 90 plus minutes of soccer to see a nil all draw. The girls are going to play a different brand. if I was setting up a girls team I'd stack it with running players. It's more a ground ball game and talls very rarely impact. Tayla Harris is probably the only consistent tall forward and she kicked like 9 or 11 goals of something last year. At some point some of the taller girls will come on but at the moment it's not lending itself to the mens blueprint.
Spot on
 

Rickee

All Australian
May 23, 2016
709
836
Horsham, Victoria
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Port Melbourne; Kalkee; Horsham Demons
Got to be honest and suggest after losing they had no interest in signing anything. I hope they were hurting
Both Western United games I've been to (Ballarat and WO) the players went around and thanked the crowd for coming, despite being beaten both times. Given it was such a momentous occasion, I think the players could have at least been asked to do a lap and show appreciation for the crowd. It's the professional thing to do, in my opinion.

I felt a bit bad seeing the little kids with their merch, phones and pens at the ready, having to watch Bulldogs players take selfies and chat with the crowd, and our girls stood around at the race in a group and then just walked off. I thought it was a bit rude, actually.
 
* I'm an AFLW member, and I went with my Dad, who is not. Asked when we arrived (hour plus early) if I could bring him in as a guest, the guy had no idea and went off to "check with someone". The lines were so long that we gave up and joined the GA queue, but I think that should have been either a solid yes or no answer, it probably happened more than once.

We got to the members gate at 2:30 and there was no queue at all by then. Got my non-member mother-in-law in with us no problem.

So I reckon the club has learned that lesson already and you'd get a definite answer next time.
 
Jun 14, 2015
1,492
11,198
Oslo
AFL Club
St Kilda
I felt a bit bad seeing the little kids with their merch, phones and pens at the ready, having to watch Bulldogs players take selfies and chat with the crowd, and our girls stood around at the race in a group and then just walked off. I thought it was a bit rude, actually.
Shouldn't matter if the team wins or gets belted by 20 goals. Absolutely not good enough. Hope the coaches get a gigantic kick up the backside for not making the players do that.
 
Jan 10, 2011
34,367
57,683
AFL Club
St Kilda
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Ormond AFC
Interestingly that is only a blueprint for the men's game that has emerged in very recent times. Men's football had 100 years to develop skills before defensive concepts like zones, flooding etc were properly introduced. Thinking back to footy in the late 80s and 90s, forwards were able to play 1v1 out of the goal-square. Nobody ever commented on the defensive running of Lockett, Ablett, Dunstall, Carey etc. Watch a game from the 60s or 70s. Tackling is basically non-existent (not in its modern form anyway).

These girls teams are adopting modern defensive tactics (tackling, zones, defensive forwards etc) but without the offensive weapons men's teams have to overcome them (45+ metre kicking, fulltime fitness programs etc). Hell most professional men's teams struggle to overcome the congestion that coaches create by putting everyone within a kick and a half of the football. It makes for an uglier spectacle and lower scoring in the men's game. In some ways it was inevitable that this would also impact the women's game, just to a greater degree. For coaches who might only have a 3 month window a year with players, it is easier to simply emphasise effort, being strong in the contest, defensive workrate etc. Its crap to watch but it keeps you in the game. Just ask Cho. He lasted years on that with no need for a Plan B.

Hence my previous question about oval size. Women's cricket simply brings the rope in. Junior teams that cant kick as far play on smaller setups. When I played Aussie Rules internationally we had smaller grounds and players were restricted to zones. Stopped everyone huddling around the contest and really made the ball ping around the field.

Again, I am no expert on women's footy. But watching yesterday it seems far more of a congestion issue than a skill issue per se.
And as I said before you can’t just bring in the ropes especially if you have games before the men’s. Do we really want little grounds for some guys and big grounds for others. It’s certainly skill that causes the congestion. I think that is obvious watching the games.
 
Jan 10, 2011
34,367
57,683
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
Both Western United games I've been to (Ballarat and WO) the players went around and thanked the crowd for coming, despite being beaten both times. Given it was such a momentous occasion, I think the players could have at least been asked to do a lap and show appreciation for the crowd. It's the professional thing to do, in my opinion.

I felt a bit bad seeing the little kids with their merch, phones and pens at the ready, having to watch Bulldogs players take selfies and chat with the crowd, and our girls stood around at the race in a group and then just walked off. I thought it was a bit rude, actually.
Well we see a loss differently. I actually don’t care but other sorts of sports do.
 
i like womens football, as others said, it's different to the men's, which doesn't make it bad. just different.

the growth it's had in terms of skill and development has been phenomenal in such a small period of time. it's just a matter of waiting now before it really explodes. you need the girls who are 5 now to come through playing footy their whole lives to really have that impact.

it's already out rating the a league. which has really fallen into a hole along with rugby union.
 
Sep 15, 2006
4,519
8,110
Wodonga
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Was a shame I couldn't make it down but how good was it seeing Footy back at Linton Street. I may not have known names but by hell as soon as I saw our colours I was in!
Petrikios is going to be a Star! And it wasn't about the flash moves it was the confidence that she had to back herself in. Wasn't the result we wanted (I swear they had the same plan as the boys. 1 crap quarter and play catch up for the rest hahaha)
Womens footy is still in its infancy not just AFLW but in state leagues as well. Give it time and you will see improvement. Hell the improvement from Year 1 to now is impressive in itself. GO SAINTS!
 
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