Society/Culture Aged "care"

[kickazz]

4 corners have just finished broadcasting part 2 of "Who Cares?", a crowd sourced documentary on failings in the aged care sector:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/episodes/

(If you are tl,dw; at least check out from 37 minute mark in episode Two)

Scott Morrison has also announced intentions for a Royal Commission into the same.

Some of the stuff they've shown is quite horrible. The thought of being so vulnerable and having a carer actually assault me in that vulnerable state shakes me up a bit to be honest. Part of me thinks the stories here are the worst of the worst, one off incidents: with so many people, you are bound to find isolated incidents.

But then I wonder what happens to all of the folks who don't get visitors, who have no one to put a secret camera in their room to capture the abuse, no one to advocate for them.

It appears the problems are worse in the private sector. Shortcuts are taken in the name of profit. Perhaps aged care cannot be profitable? And as we get an older and older population, how much of our taxes are we really prepared to part with to ensure the elderly get proper care?

It's a topic we sometimes would rather not think or talk about.

Well let's talk about it. What are your experiences? Do you work in aged care, or do you have a loved one in care?

Are you comfortable with the thought of ending up there or hoping to die before it gets to that?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Voluntary euthanasia so it doesn't get to that.

 

[RupieDupie]

4 corners have just finished broadcasting part 2 of "Who Cares?", a crowd sourced documentary on failings in the aged care sector:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/episodes/

(If you are tl,dw; at least check out from 37 minute mark in episode Two)

Scott Morrison has also announced intentions for a Royal Commission into the same.

Some of the stuff they've shown is quite horrible. The thought of being so vulnerable and having a carer actually assault me in that vulnerable state shakes me up a bit to be honest. Part of me thinks the stories here are the worst of the worst, one off incidents: with so many people, you are bound to find isolated incidents.

But then I wonder what happens to all of the folks who don't get visitors, who have no one to put a secret camera in their room to capture the abuse, no one to advocate for them.

It appears the problems are worse in the private sector. Shortcuts are taken in the name of profit. Perhaps aged care cannot be profitable? And as we get an older and older population, how much of our taxes are we really prepared to part with to ensure the elderly get proper care?

It's a topic we sometimes would rather not think or talk about.

Well let's talk about it. What are your experiences? Do you work in aged care, or do you have a loved one in care?

Are you comfortable with the thought of ending up there or hoping to die before it gets to that?

Liar Liar pants on fire was very quick to act on this as a Royal Commission, but not so with the banks. Apparently Australian tax money does a bit of a loop and subsidises one investor after another investors wallet. Also seems to help out with a bit of a tax break here and there.

As per usual, when Investors are in charge of a service, the service becomes corrupted and a joke. But the investors get filthy and disgustingly rich.

Why stop here Morrison?

What about the energy sector, child care, telecommunications, media etc? We all know the modus operandi. There is a common theme here...

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/aveos-billions-behind-the-impenetrable-aged-care-empire/

 

[CheapCharlie]

The abuses though have been around for years, and Aged care as well as some Retirement homes have been increasingly ripping off the people it is supposed to care for, offering little more than sub standard warehousing in some instances.

Share prices of Estia, Japara & Regis as well as Aveo have all dropped significantly since the Royal Commission was announced and there will be probably be further drops.
These are publicly listed companies, in some case making 70% of their revenue direct from the government

Why has it taken this long for the government to act, when it is the main provider of funding?

 

[Gough]

My grandmother lived in a aged care village so it's outside the RC's remit as it stands but she tripped and broke her hip and sat there for two days and nights with the light on in her house and nobody thought to look in on her, I've got tears in my eyes now thinking about here sitting there. She died as a result of this, and it wasn't a death that was worthy of the life that she lived. I used to visit her once a week and had been concerned that she wasn't getting the care that a woman in her 90s needed to be getting but was fobbed off every time I brought it up with the people who managed the place. This is going to be like the banking RC, not a populist whinge as our PM would have you believe but an eye opening, sober, and I'm certain at times frightening reminder of how we treat our aged.

 

[Kurve]

Voluntary euthanasia so it doesn't get to that.

My Nan took herself out. She wasn't sick, just getting frail and her independent nature wouldn't allow assisted living. We all knew what she'd done and accepted it. The house was perfectly tidy and she was lying on her back fully dressed, her hair and makeup done on top of a made bed. No rubbish in the bin, she'd wrapped up her stockpiled empty pill packets in tissues and thrown them in a wheelie bin outside. She was 87yo.

 

[Puddy]

Aged care is broken. When you have poorly paid overworked carers and nurses and managers on big money it highlights alot of the problems that hopefully the RC will adress

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

It's hard to watch those videos. Seems like root and branch failure. Profit motive at the top, too many poorly trained staff at the bottom.

 

[Puddy]

It's hard to watch those videos. Seems like root and branch failure. Profit motive at the top, too many poorly trained staff at the bottom.

No amount of training can teach someone people skills. You cant teach someone how to care. Why would you do a intensive course to get paid $19 per hour to slog your guts out?

 

[RupieDupie]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...ships-and-donations-affect-democracy/10282852

We elect the politicians but they serve someone else's interest

 

[kickazz]

No amount of training can teach someone people skills. You cant teach someone how to care. Why would you do a intensive course to get paid $19 per hour to slog your guts out?

I guess fundamentally no, you can't. You either care or you don't.

But you can definitely tech people hire to care effectively. Things like understanding the subtle signs someone is in pain or distress for a start. How to deal with your own frustrations.

The stories from some of these places suggest a real lack of governance though.

 

[kickazz]

It's hard to watch those videos. Seems like root and branch failure. Profit motive at the top, too many poorly trained staff at the bottom.

And there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to profit out of aged care. It is a service of value.

Can it be profitable though? If you do a really good job, is it profitable? Or is this something the taxpayer needs to pay for?

Public education has return on investment in the long run. Those kids will become taxpayers.

Aged care is a different kettle of fish. It's more a moral obligation.

Motives aside, it seems more that regulation is the area currently found wanting in the private sector. Something like three quarters of facilities get "perfect scores" on audits. And often those "audits" are advised with plenty of time for facilities to paper over the cracks for inspection day.

Either way, I see this becoming costlier in the future (due both to volume and mandated increased quality of care, minimum education standards, governance, etc), and we'll all have to pay in some way. Sure there might be some parasitic folk at the roots of the system we can remove, but the broader responsibility here is ours.

 

[Kram]

The old man is in a public home but it's a small one out in the country that's pretty good. Even though most staff do a great job you still have to keep a close 'eye' on everything as they do get the odd bonehead working in there doing silly stuff.

No amount of training can teach someone people skills. You cant teach someone how to care. Why would you do a intensive course to get paid $19 per hour to slog your guts out?

Surely they don't get paid anywhere near that low otherwise nobody would do it. I heard the money is quite good but they still find it difficult to find people because it's such a hard job.

 

[Puddy]

The old man is in a public home but it's a small one out in the country that's pretty good. Even though most staff do a great job you still have to keep a close 'eye' on everything as they do get the odd bonehead working in there doing silly stuff.

Surely they don't get paid anywhere near that low otherwise nobody would do it. I heard the money is quite good but they still find it difficult to find people because it's such a hard job.

The starting permanet rate for day shift is $19 as a carer. After 4-5 years you max out at around $22-$23ph. The government doesnt want to address this as government funding is what pays carers and nurses.

Money is quite good for managers though

 

[skipper kelly]

The starting permanet rate for day shift is $19 as a carer. After 4-5 years you max out at around $22-$23ph. The government doesnt want to address this as government funding is what pays carers and nurses.

Money is quite good for managers though

Yep. $22.85 per hour. They got a recent pay rise from $22.00 per hour.

 

[Kram]

There must be some good penalty rate bonuses or something surely? iirc $18 an hour is about minimum wage for someone standing around in a shop. I looked after the old man a bit before he went in, this job is at least 10 times harder.

 

[skipper kelly]

There must be some good penalty rate bonuses or something surely? iirc $18 an hour is about minimum wage for someone standing around in a shop. I looked after the old man a bit before he went in, this job is at least 10 times harder.

Just normal penalty rates.

 

[Puddy]

There must be some good penalty rate bonuses or something surely? iirc $18 an hour is about minimum wage for someone standing around in a shop. I looked after the old man a bit before he went in, this job is at least 10 times harder.

Afternoon shift gets an extra $1.50, night shift 50 cents on top of that.

In regards to penalty rates Christmas is a very good day, double time and a half

 

[Present Not Past]

And the elderly that can't afford Aged "Care" end up in doss houses or on the streets.
This is very much connected to the appalling housing crisis in our major cities, and of course there are plenty of people out there making a lot of money from the misery.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Don't they almost forfeit their homes and pensions to pay for it?

 

[Kurve]

Don't they almost forfeit their homes and pensions to pay for it?

I'm not sure exactly how it works but that would be one reason why I'd want to check out myself before my legacy was taken. A nursing home is just deaths waiting room imo, its not living. We never really talked much about Nan's decision to kill herself. For such a straight old fashioned woman though it probably should have been quite shocking. I was so sad but also quietly proud of her defiance.

 

[Puddy]

Money is poor. The only way to make a decent living is to become a registered nurse. Good luck finding a job as an RN though

 

[RolandF1]

Don't they almost forfeit their homes and pensions to pay for it?

Yes. I had relatives in that boat and they knew what was to come so transferred their family house to their kids. The aged care home harassed them for a long time over the money they felt entitled to from the house.

 

[Teagueeee15]

Those pay rates are fairly shocking, assuming it is based on an award? As the saying goes, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. You have to question what the the heck the union was doing agreeing to those rates if that’s what’s in the award.

 

[AM]

Interesting piece on aged care here

The sooner the RC gets going the better and with wide ranging terms of reference. The current state of affairs is scandalous.