List Mgmt. Ageing list (nine players over 30 years)

[Pure_Ownage]

Wish we didn't have two 2013 recruits in that list.

Disagree.

We lack depth at kpd and our ruck stocks are as thin as tissue paper.both of the two recruits have been very good this year.

No issue recruiting older players so long as it is in positions of need only.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We can go back to being a loser club and playing everyone until they clearly aren't good enough losing grand finals and being almost good enough or we can develop another flag winning team.

1. Rivers isn't contracted
2. He isn't a favourite son
3. We don't have a list to win a flag in the next 2-3 years
4. We have 3 old key defenders, 4 if you include Mackie
5. We have Blicavs, Brown, Hamling and Kolo as KPD options, they need to get games
6. Playing 3 KPDs with Mackie is a poor setup anyway
7. Finishing 3rd-6th for the next few years doesn't bring us any closer to a flag
8. Chappy and Pods were also playing pretty good footy but got cut for the greater good

None of those arguments stand to reason.

Rivers is playing miles better than Pods was last year (and that's coming from Podsy's biggest fan ever) and Chapman couldn't get on the park. He is ou best KPD on form right now and will in all likelihood be top ten in the b & f. If we needed to cut a key defender (which I'm not necessarily convinced we do) it would be Lonergan before Rivers.

And as for your other options Blicavs is a ruckman, Brown won't be on our list next year, Hamling is no certainty to be an afl quality key defender, and Kolo is a first year player.

 

[Partridge]

Disagree.

We lack depth at kpd and our ruck stocks are as thin as tissue paper.both of the two recruits have been very good this year.

No issue recruiting older players so long as it is in positions of need only.

That's by choice. They chose to move on West. They could have easily kept him only for the VFL. The club can't complain that they only have 2 proper ruckmen - they've engineered it that way.

Agree there's little depth for key defenders; at the same time they're not exactly enthusiastic about giving people games there either.

 

[Teriyakicat]

That's by choice. They chose to move on West. They could have easily kept him only for the VFL. The club can't complain that they only have 2 proper ruckmen - they've engineered it that way.

Agree there's little depth for key defenders; at the same time they're not exactly enthusiastic about giving people games there either.

Totally agree with you about the fact that the club has caused their own ruck deficiencies via the draft and moving on West but West would've walked I reckon
but West wasn't big enough for a #1 ruckman and Simpson had back issues. The club must've seen us as a chance for a GF in 2013 or they wouldn't have recruited Rivers and HMac. If several things had gone our way, instead of against us, we'd have made the GF and possibly even won it. Coming 2nd on the ladder with no 1st choice ruckman and a crippled full forward that we continued to play week in, week out- I reckon we were more than half a chance to win the flag, too.

As for the lack of getting games into our defenders- well, I guess the club is thinking we're more than half a chance this year and are going for broke- making sure the young boys are getting some good work into them in the VFL so they're game-ready in 2015.

 

[The Governor]

I have read this blog on list management with great interest.

In my humble opinion, the people who have replaced Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon since 2011 are not good enough to fast track the development of the youngsters who have hit a stumbling block in their AFL Careers.

Chris Scott is a huge fan in playing 1st year draftees whilst neglecting the development of the 30-100 game youngsters who have hit an obstacle in their AFL career. People can blame the head coach and his main assistants (Blake Cacarella and Nigel Lappin). But, the buck stops with Dale Amos, Paul Hood and Matthew Knights.

Matthew Knights could not coach a side with his eyes closed. His record at Essendon is living proof of his inability to coach a VFL and AFL side. Paul Hood and Dale Amos were lucky to be at the right place at the right time when Brendan McCartney, Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon left the club.

A question mark must hover around the assistants who are responsible for developing the 30 to 70 game AFL players on the Geelong list after they have been exposed to AFL football. Has Chris Scott appointed YES people to his coaching staff? Has Chris Scott and Neil Balme offered the kitchen sink to Brett Ratten at the end of 2012 but decided to promote Dale Amos? Why did not they give David Wheadon a phone call after 2012?

We were lucky to beat the Giants last night and the question remains over Matthew Knights, Dale Amos and Paul Hood. They have the responsibility to fast track the development of the 30-70 game AFL youngsters and they have failed so far.

We have to remember that Chris Scott won the 2011 flag with the playing group that was developed by Mark Thompson, Brendan McCartney, Ken Hinkley and David Wheadon.

Will Chris Scott make the hard call and approach a seasoned experienced AFL coach like Mark Harvey to become the senior assistant to Chris Scott?

 

[Partridge]

Matthew Knights could not coach a side with his eyes closed. His record at Essendon is living proof of his inability to coach a VFL and AFL side. Paul Hood and Dale Amos were lucky to be at the right place at the right time when Brendan McCartney, Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon left the club.

Really? What's his Geelong VFL record like? I'm pretty sure it's 2 years for 1 premiership and 1 runner-up. That's a reasonable record I would have thought.

We were lucky to beat the Giants last night and the question remains over Matthew Knights, Dale Amos and Paul Hood. They have the responsibility to fast track the development of the 30-70 game AFL youngsters and they have failed so far.

Have they? Is Guthrie a better player now than he was 2 years ago? I'd say yes. Is Murdoch? Horlin-Smith? Even Motlop? They're all under 70 games too.

Guthrie (57 games) - In 2012 he averaged 10.9 disposals a game. This year it's 18.4.
Horlin-Smith (26 games) - In 2012 he averaged 12.3 disposals a game. This year it's 17.3.
Murdoch (35 games) - In 2012 he averaged 12.8 disposals a game. This year it's 13.5.
Motlop (62 games) - In 2012 he averaged 13.4 disposals a game. This year it's 21.3.

I'd have a far bigger question over the management of the veterans in the team. Or how VFL form is not rewarded while others can play ordinary football for the senior team. None of that is the fault of Knights or Amos or Hood. It is the fault of Chris Scott - he's in charge.

 

[dazbroncos]

I have read this blog on list management with great interest.

In my humble opinion, the people who have replaced Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon since 2011 are not good enough to fast track the development of the youngsters who have hit a stumbling block in their AFL Careers.

Chris Scott is a huge fan in playing 1st year draftees whilst neglecting the development of the 30-100 game youngsters who have hit an obstacle in their AFL career. People can blame the head coach and his main assistants (Blake Cacarella and Nigel Lappin). But, the buck stops with Dale Amos, Paul Hood and Matthew Knights.

Matthew Knights could not coach a side with his eyes closed. His record at Essendon is living proof of his inability to coach a VFL and AFL side. Paul Hood and Dale Amos were lucky to be at the right place at the right time when Brendan McCartney, Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon left the club.

A question mark must hover around the assistants who are responsible for developing the 30 to 70 game AFL players on the Geelong list after they have been exposed to AFL football. Has Chris Scott appointed YES people to his coaching staff? Has Chris Scott and Neil Balme offered the kitchen sink to Brett Ratten at the end of 2012 but decided to promote Dale Amos? Why did not they give David Wheadon a phone call after 2012?

We were lucky to beat the Giants last night and the question remains over Matthew Knights, Dale Amos and Paul Hood. They have the responsibility to fast track the development of the 30-70 game AFL youngsters and they have failed so far.

We have to remember that Chris Scott won the 2011 flag with the playing group that was developed by Mark Thompson, Brendan McCartney, Ken Hinkley and David Wheadon.

Will Chris Scott make the hard call and approach a seasoned experienced AFL coach like Mark Harvey to become the senior assistant to Chris Scott?

Huh?

Go Catters

 

[vinum coupe]

Chris Scott is a huge fan in playing 1st year draftees whilst neglecting the development of the 30-100 game youngsters who have hit an obstacle in their AFL career. People can blame the head coach and his main assistants (Blake Cacarella and Nigel Lappin). But, the buck stops with Dale Amos, Paul Hood and Matthew Knights.

Bullcrap.
Amos is an assistant for the AFL side.
Lappin IS the development coach for the fringe players (Duncan, Caddy, Guthrie etc) Not an AFL assistant. If he was he couldn't be the runner.

Learn about your own club before going on a useless rant.

 

[dazbroncos]

I have read this blog on list management with great interest.

In my humble opinion, the people who have replaced Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon since 2011 are not good enough to fast track the development of the youngsters who have hit a stumbling block in their AFL Careers.

Chris Scott is a huge fan in playing 1st year draftees whilst neglecting the development of the 30-100 game youngsters who have hit an obstacle in their AFL career. People can blame the head coach and his main assistants (Blake Cacarella and Nigel Lappin). But, the buck stops with Dale Amos, Paul Hood and Matthew Knights.

Matthew Knights could not coach a side with his eyes closed. His record at Essendon is living proof of his inability to coach a VFL and AFL side. Paul Hood and Dale Amos were lucky to be at the right place at the right time when Brendan McCartney, Brendan Sanderson and David Wheadon left the club.

A question mark must hover around the assistants who are responsible for developing the 30 to 70 game AFL players on the Geelong list after they have been exposed to AFL football. Has Chris Scott appointed YES people to his coaching staff? Has Chris Scott and Neil Balme offered the kitchen sink to Brett Ratten at the end of 2012 but decided to promote Dale Amos? Why did not they give David Wheadon a phone call after 2012?

We were lucky to beat the Giants last night and the question remains over Matthew Knights, Dale Amos and Paul Hood. They have the responsibility to fast track the development of the 30-70 game AFL youngsters and they have failed so far.

We have to remember that Chris Scott won the 2011 flag with the playing group that was developed by Mark Thompson, Brendan McCartney, Ken Hinkley and David Wheadon.

Will Chris Scott make the hard call and approach a seasoned experienced AFL coach like Mark Harvey to become the senior assistant to Chris Scott?

You don't drink beers at the pub with a guy named Biggy Boy do ya?

Go Catters

 

[JUBJUB]

Matthew Knights could not coach a side with his eyes closed.

 

[catempire]

Must have had his eyes open.

 

[JUBJUB]

I hope The Gov doesn't check the VFL score

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That's by choice. They chose to move on West. They could have easily kept him only for the VFL. The club can't complain that they only have 2 proper ruckmen - they've engineered it that way.

Agree there's little depth for key defenders; at the same time they're not exactly enthusiastic about giving people games there either.

I agree on West and I said as much at the time but it still doesn't change my point which is we have bugge all rucks, Simpson is not fit enough to carrying the ruck so Hmac is not blocking the path of anyone who should be in the side.

You need to look at the recruitment of experienced players in terms of who they keep out. Moving on Hunt was right because a player like Guthrie was that good. Now this is not to say that Hamling or Kolo won't make it, but are they as outstanding talent as Guthrie or Duncan or Horlin Smith? I would say not. So is Rivers (who is playing better than Lonergan anyway) seriously styming anyone who is clearly in our best side and should be in the afl? I doubt it.

You can't have a blanket approach to these things, you need to look at each potential older recruit on a case by case basis in terms of what quality the list has in that position and who they would or would not keep out of the side.

Both have done their job quite well this year.

 

[Vdubs]

Toohey is going to surprise a few here. Saw a lot of him last year, and apart from being able to kick goals and defend, he can help out in the ruck.
This is virtually Simpson's first complete year without serious injury, and he is feeling the pinch, evidently, but I feel we will see an even better version of him next year with another preseason, and enhanced fitness. He is coming from so far behind as far as his peers, and sadly, HMc is in a similar or worse situation.
Next year, with HMc and DS really fighting for #1, and Blicavs, and also Toohey, we are pretty well placed.

If only we'd picked up Cameron Wood....seriously... could be a great selection for Carlton.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

You are drunk
He's had 5 years to cement a KPD [forward or back] spot and still can't get a regular game

Vardy has had one less year, is all of 10 months younger and he's still the great white hope. The good news for those that are tired of Brown getting in the best players every week in the VFL and then selfishly not getting himself selected in the senior side, is that if he gets an offer from anyone else, he'll be out the door in a heartbeat.

 

[Corio cat]

Vardy has had one less year, is all of 10 months younger and he's still the great white hope. The good news for those that are tired of Brown getting in the best players every week in the VFL and then selfishly not getting himself selected in the senior side, is that if he gets an offer from anyone else, he'll be out the door in a heartbeat.

Mitch has been v good in vfl last 3 weeks. Can play both ends is the age profile we need, i would keep him.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Mitch has been v good in vfl last 3 weeks. Can play both ends is the age profile we need, i would keep him.

That's all very well, but there is no point in keeping him if the MC is not going to play him, which appears to be the case.
Apart from anything else, it's simply not fair to him, and it's a waste of our resources, ie our development space.

 

[Partridge]

Vardy has had one less year, is all of 10 months younger and he's still the great white hope. The good news for those that are tired of Brown getting in the best players every week in the VFL and then selfishly not getting himself selected in the senior side, is that if he gets an offer from anyone else, he'll be out the door in a heartbeat.

So who is going to be the whipping boy next year I wonder? Be very curious to see how that unfolds.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

So who is going to be the whipping boy next year I wonder? Be very curious to see how that unfolds.

Hamling's well overdue. For all his injuries at the start of his career, Brown made his debut two months shy of his 21st birthday. Hamling turned 21 in April. Who else...? Burbury, Varcoe, Smedts and Walker, of course. Hunt if he's still here. Murdoch, if he maintains his current form. And one of Simpson or McIntosh (who seem to rotate as whipping boy on a weekly basis, at the moment)

 

[Partridge]

Hamling's well overdue. For all his injuries at the start of his career, Brown made his debut two months shy of his 21st birthday. Hamling turned 21 in April. Who else...? Burbury, Varcoe, Smedts and Walker, of course. Hunt if he's still here. Murdoch, if he maintains his current form. And one of Simpson or McIntosh (who seem to rotate as whipping boy on a weekly basis, at the moment)

And almost certainly won't be playing seniors this year.

 

[dazbroncos]

So who is going to be the whipping boy next year I wonder? Be very curious to see how that unfolds.

Will be curious but I'm sure it won't take long for the irrational fervour to kick in and align itself to some poor unwarranted destination... It always does....

Go Catters

 

[Shai]

Mitch has been v good in vfl last 3 weeks. Can play both ends is the age profile we need, i would keep him.

From what I've seen I prefer Kersten up forward, yet to see Brown down back but not sure if we need another tall there..?

 

[Corio cat]

From what I've seen I prefer Kersten up forward, yet to see Brown down back but not sure if we need another tall there..?

I agree Kersten for me as well as a comparison, but ive seen something in Brown the last couple of weeks, he looks stronger and more aggressive, i havn"t been a fan but its my opinion that he will be kept in 2015, better option than Walks and i think he has something to offer if he can stay fit. We still may see him in 2014 anyway as our key forward stocks are thin after hawk and kersten.

 

[cynical]

I agree on West and I said as much at the time but it still doesn't change my point which is we have bugge all rucks, Simpson is not fit enough to carrying the ruck so Hmac is not blocking the path of anyone who should be in the side.

You need to look at the recruitment of experienced players in terms of who they keep out. Moving on Hunt was right because a player like Guthrie was that good. Now this is not to say that Hamling or Kolo won't make it, but are they as outstanding talent as Guthrie or Duncan or Horlin Smith? I would say not. So is Rivers (who is playing better than Lonergan anyway) seriously styming anyone who is clearly in our best side and should be in the afl? I doubt it.

You can't have a blanket approach to these things, you need to look at each potential older recruit on a case by case basis in terms of what quality the list has in that position and who they would or would not keep out of the side.

Both have done their job quite well this year.

The difference is there are a lot more spots for smalls than talls and it's way easier for them to transition into AFL.

Someone like Hartman can perform at VFL get a game as sub pickup a few cheapies, make a few tackles but not really be accountable for one player.

A guy like Brown can throw up good VFL games week after week but he has no shot of playing in defence.

He has to play in an overly tall backline where no one gets rested and if they do they prefer Blicavs to play as a defensive ruck.

If he does get a game all eyes are on him, get out marked a few times and you are destined for the scrap heap, no adjustment time for playing on VFL quality players to AFL quality.

The development of our future backline has been terrible this year. With so many old talls they should have rotated a few out of the team so guys like Brown, Thurlow, Kolo and Hamling get the odd game.

Now with us being a Bradbury chance even though we are probably the 4th-6th best team in the comp none of those guys will get a shot this year.

 

[JUBJUB]

The difference is there are a lot more spots for smalls than talls and it's way easier for them to transition into AFL.

Someone like Hartman can perform at VFL get a game as sub pickup a few cheapies, make a few tackles but not really be accountable for one player.

A guy like Brown can throw up good VFL games week after week but he has no shot of playing in defence.

He has to play in an overly tall backline where no one gets rested and if they do they prefer Blicavs to play as a defensive ruck.

If he does get a game all eyes are on him, get out marked a few times and you are destined for the scrap heap, no adjustment time for playing on VFL quality players to AFL quality.

The development of our future backline has been terrible this year. With so many old talls they should have rotated a few out of the team so guys like Brown, Thurlow, Kolo and Hamling get the odd game.

Now with us being a Bradbury chance even though we are probably the 4th-6th best team in the comp none of those guys will get a shot this year.

You been getting into Partridges stash of grumpy pills ?