Strategy Aggressive reset

[muttley45]

It appears to me our Medical/Conditioning Dept. is ripe for new blood, our last couple of years in this regard have been very poor, i will stand corrected, but it seems that both SA teams had exceptional results with this aspect this season, maybe we should be looking in that direction for an upgrade.

 

[shintemaster]

Who knows what will happen between now and then. 2018's draft will take care of itself.

Agree. We can take a long term view sure but a lot can change in a year.

We really struggled this year but we also intentionally made our team depth significantly shallower at the end of last year – then copped injuries to a slew of players that we would have banked on being easily best 26. If we can get the majority back for full pre seasons and have a better run next year out of most of Williams, Waite, Jmac, Wright, Jacobs, Turner, Wood etc we have enough talent with a healthy list to trouble anyone.

 

[the big lebowski]

If we finished last next year, would that mean we get pick 1 and then would be able to use next pick (19 roughly) on T.Thomas?

Yes that is correct

Thomas unlikely to be a top 10 pick, so we could probably use our first pick if it falls between 1 and 10

 

[the big lebowski]

There is some serious talent in next years draft

 

[LT Smash]

If we finished last next year, would that mean we get pick 1 and then would be able to use next pick (19 roughly) on T.Thomas?

It's a lot more complicated than that. Every draft pick has a value so if another club nominated TT, we have to match the value of the pick they propose to use minus a 20% discount. In a nutshell, Pick 19 would only match a nomination of Pick 14 - 18. Of course, if a club with a pick earlier than 14 nominated TT, then we could bundle Pick 19 with a third or fourth round pick to tally up the points to match. We can also draw upon picks from the 2019 draft.

 

[R00StaR]

Okay, you want a rebuild and not a reset.

No thanks, not for me mate.

I want a reset but it must be done right. Kelly and Martin together with our list and its age profile wouldve been exactly that, in making us a contender straight away.

Unfortunately anything short of two players of their caliber is back to mid table finishes all while the age profile of our list gets worse every year. We just added NDS, Waite, Higgins in the hope of a 2 year window but the form of Wells, Swallow, Boomer, Petrie can co dropped off too much. We could cost ourselves anther 10 years of nowhere if we top up for mid table finishes.

 

[archereleven]

How long do we kid ourselves with a 'reset' if we can't entice an A grader to our club? If Kelly isn't at Arden St come the end of year, it goes from reset to rebuild imo...

If Kelly stays put, we might as well try and get the F/S's on board, TT and whatever other top talent and launch...

 

[Snake_Baker]

Folks, you keep talking about the 2018 draft and delistings, you aren't giving me much when it comes to trading NOW, as in AGGRESSIVE reset.

 

[Snake_Baker]

How long do we kid ourselves with a 'reset' if we can't entice an A grader to our club? If Kelly isn't at Arden St come the end of year, it goes from reset to rebuild imo...

If Kelly stays put, we might as well try and get the F/S's on board, TT and whatever other top talent and launch...

Nah, I am not copping that and I strongly fear we will have good players walk out of the club if that happens rather than hang around in their late 20's knowing we are a side that is 5 years away from a realistic top 4 crack.

We may as well trade Cunnington and Tarrant if that's the case.

 

[archereleven]

Folks, you keep talking about the 2018 draft and delistings, you aren't giving me much when it comes to trading NOW, as in AGGRESSIVE reset.

Without Kelly, how do reset aggressively? What, Rockliff and a couple of spuds that can't get games in other midfields?

Success won't come from adding free agent b- graders and finishing 10th...

With Kelly, full steam ahead. Get Rocky and whoever else will improve us immediately and stay the course...

 

[R00StaR]

Nah, I am not copping that and I strongly fear we will have good players walk out of the club if that happens rather than hang around in their late 20's knowing we are a side that is 5 years away from a realistic top 4 crack.

We may as well trade Cunnington and Tarrant if that's the case.

As much as it would feel like having our guts ripped out, thats exactly what we should do if we cant land the big fish required to catapult us up to contender status (which Kelly AND Martin wouldve done imo).

 

[Snake_Baker]

Without Kelly, how do reset aggressively? What, Rockliff and a couple of spuds that can't get games in other midfields?

Success won't come from adding free agent b- graders and finishing 10th...

With Kelly, full steam ahead. Get Rocky and whoever else will improve us immediately and stay the course...

Rockliff is a good footballer and someone like Miles is a very good center square player that allows us to release JZ.

We are stronger with these two blokes in our side. No doubt about it. What's more, they wouldn't cost picks. Something for today & something for tomorrow. Get our best 22 on the park with these two & a better draw and we are definitely back in finals contention.

 

[shintemaster]

Nah, I am not copping that and I strongly fear we will have good players walk out of the club if that happens rather than hang around in their late 20's knowing we are a side that is 5 years away from a realistic top 4 crack.

We may as well trade Cunnington and Tarrant if that's the case.

No team could in good conscience look at the last, say 2 seasons and movements of clubs like Adelaide, Richmond, Port, WB and come to the conclusion that they are 5 years away from a red hot crack (unless they're sh*t clubs like Carlton). I'd be very unimpressed if we weren't planning on pushing for top 8 again next year with a good run even without significant changes in the off season.

 

[Snake_Baker]

As much as it would feel like having our guts ripped out, thats exactly what we should do if we cant land the big fish required to catapult us up to contender status (which Kelly AND Martin wouldve done imo).

Christ, I couldn't go through 2008 to 2011 again and it's multiple 10 goal hidings. There were some ****ing heinous list mistakes made then.

 

[R00StaR]

Christ, I couldn't go through 2008 to 2011 again and it's multiple 10 goal hidings. There were some ******* heinous list mistakes made then.

I know mate, but its better than another decade of nowhere. Its really been that way since early 2000s when when it was obvious the game style required was changing. The kicking efficiency, gut running and possession play were beginning to take over our bomb it down the line until we reach Carey or Longmire play.

 

[tenderwarrior]

Most obvious one, yes.

I said a couple of years ago he'd be a slow burn and that's the way it's gone. He's now starting to look extremely strong in the contest and can push forward and kick goals. Played mid wing a bit this year until injuries took their toll on our backline. I see him as a genuine mid / utility type floating between HF/HB with middle stints. Very hard to tackle now and can roost 55m+ with ease. Tough as nails.

I was going to say something about him being 'Hodge' like, but didn't want to get carries away..

 

[czero]

**** Ablett

Bad idea. What will Ablett achieve for us?

What will another year of Waite achieve? Its the same.

 

[CarnTheKANGAS]

Trade Thomas, Swallow, Goldstein, McMillan, Daw (if he has any currency - if not delist)
Entertain Trades for Cunnington, Tarrant, Higgins, Atley - obviously only if the value is right
Waite - delist
Wright and Jacobs moved to rookie list

trade with view to getting as much futures for next year as possible - we aren't contending any time soon so cash in what we have.

No-one over 25 should be off the table (besides our skipper)

Folks, you keep talking about the 2018 draft and delistings, you aren't giving me much when it comes to trading NOW, as in AGGRESSIVE reset.

Aggressive reset has bolted - we are in rebuild mode

 

[remfan101]

We're not winning a premiership with Anthony Miles as our centre. That's just more of exactly the same issues which prevented us winning it in 2015-16, except instead of warriors like Swallow/Ziebell/Cunnington we have Anthony ****ing Miles. He's not even in Richmond's 26. Yes, we need to find a way to allow Ziebell to play forward, but the solution isn't another slow inside mid with terrible skills. Dumont is already better, plus Ahern and Clarke will both be looking to join our midfield next year. With all due respect Snake, we have to learn from our mistakes, and Anthony Miles is not the answer to anything.

 

[shintemaster]

I was going to say something about him being 'Hodge' like, but didn't want to get carries away..

That's a comparison that's valid, although there are a couple of others that I can think of. People go all crazy over these comparisons but there's nothing wrong with them when describing the similar strengths and qualities. I think Hodge is a good comparison, strong overhead, plays on the taller / utility side for a mid and can move forward or back.

 

[Snake_Baker]

We're not winning a premiership with Anthony Miles as our centre. That's just more of exactly the same issues which prevented us winning it in 2015-16, except instead of warriors like Swallow/Ziebell/Cunnington we have Anthony ****ing Miles. He's not even in Richmond's 26. Yes, we need to find a way to allow Ziebell to play forward, but the solution isn't another slow inside mid with terrible skills. Dumont is already better, plus Ahern and Clarke will both be looking to join our midfield next year. With all due respect Snake, we have to learn from our mistakes, and Anthony Miles is not the answer to anything.

He's there to clear. He does it well. Don't overlook the nuances.

As for Dumont, Miles would slaughter him. Feel free to put other names up.

 

[archereleven]

Rockliff is a good footballer and someone like Miles is a very good center square player that allows us to release JZ.

We are stronger with these two blokes in our side. No doubt about it. What's more, they wouldn't cost picks. Something for today & something for tomorrow. Get our best 22 on the park with these two & a better draw and we are definitely back in finals contention.

Yep Rockliff makes us stronger, but I highly doubt Miles even gets into our midfield. He's in and out of the tuggers side and don't even think he's been looked at for the back half of the season(not sure but havnt seen him)

Finishing 8th and then dropping back down due to schedule the next season isn't being aggressive, it's being stupid and setting the club up for a decade long disaster.

Im hoping like **** we can hit on Kelly. Without him it's back to the long game imho...

 

[remfan101]

He's there to clear. He does it well. Don't overlook the nuances.

As for Dumont, Miles would slaughter him. Feel free to put other names up.

Jeez you're a stubborn bastard. How could you watch the Brisbane game carefully enough to continually hype up Goldy's performance (who was certainly better but didn't make the bests) and yet not see how impressive Trent was (named 4th in the bests, kept beams to 19 and had something like 28 touches himself) is just completely beyond me. Did he run over your cat or something mate?

 

[czero]

What the hell are you on about - 'no one renegotiates an existing contract'?

Contracts are always renegotiated/extended/conditions changed to reflect new circumstances.

Would we rather contract some new average players from other clubs just to spend the salary cap minimum or would rather lock in the one player that we can build a forward line around who will be out of contract in 12 months?

BBB's salary next year (say $350k) gets built into the new contract - say 5 years at $4m. Rather than wait till next year which allows other clubs to start approaching his management the contract is renegotiated at 6 years at $4.350m now. This then allows us to heavily front load to meet cap minimums.

Talk about posters on other boards having no clue about commercial and business reality - we have enough of these posters on our own board!

Firstly, I'm not suggesting we contract average players.

Secondly, the point about locking him into north so other cannot get him is not really a point you can use to argue, as we can renegotiate a contract extension this year if we like. Nothing from stopping that from happening.

I do have a point for you though, which supports your idea. That is that re-contracting him (and any other player we want to lock in) for front loading for next year reduces our exposure to risk of his future years in case of an injury. So if we front loaded a deal with 1 mill next year, then 500k each subsequent year, then if he is injured (and he does have issues with his knees) while we have paid him a lot, it was all 'free' payments as it was a necessary evil due to the min TPP.

 

[CarnTheKANGAS]

We've already made two mistakes in the last 2 weeks..
1) not losing round 23 was a monumental stuff up
2) resigning Brad Scott

Hopefully they don't make a third mistake and that's not having a major overhaul of the football and medical departments