Strategy Aggressive reset

[roos_fanatic08]

Let me clean up your post a little.

If he was slow, he would not win a single clearance in an AFL side.
If his kicking was terrible, he would not have gotten a game in an AFL side.

Can you see how easy it is to exaggerate things?

Moving on to your next point, "make us better", he makes us better because he matches or improves our ability to win clearances, allows us to move JZ forward, and he is better than what else we have at the moment. I have pointed this out about 10 times now.

The sides that are 1 and 2 on the ladder are also 1 and 2 for clearances, 1 and 2 for stoppage clearances and 2 and 4 for centre clearances. This is not some statistical anomaly.

By comparison, we were 7th, 7th and ironically 15th.

That first statement is ridiculous. You can be slow and be a good clearance midfielder. Our own Swallow and Cunnington are slow especially when compared to other elite midfielders. Matt Crouch, Priddis, Kennedy, Ebert, Boak amongst a whole host of others are excellent inside midfielders that don't have any sort of speed. All of the players mentioned from other sides though cover the ground significantly better than our inside midfielders both defensively and offensively.

Furthermore, in regards to the best clearance teams - they have a balance...they have some slower bull types along with others who can breakaway from the contest. None of the best sides have a starting midfield of 4-5 slower inside mids. Think players that can win their own footy and cover the ground with multiple efforts guys like Hannerbury, Parker, Sloane, Shiel, Kelly, Dangerfield ect. That's what we need. And if we can't get it on the open market then we go to the draft and develop our own.

In regards to your 2nd point, about poor (I'll agree with you that terrible is an exaggeration) kicks, there are a number of players that reach AFL level without having good skills. If Miles had even above average skills he would be in Richmonds best 22. But he causes too many turnovers and thus is playing VFL footy.
It's a combination of poor decision making and not having the skills to execute.

 

[Arathrawn]

Let me clean up your post a little.

If he was slow, he would not win a single clearance in an AFL side.
If his kicking was terrible, he would not have gotten a game in an AFL side.

Can you see how easy it is to exaggerate things?

Moving on to your next point, "make us better", he makes us better because he matches or improves our ability to win clearances, allows us to move JZ forward, and he is better than what else we have at the moment. I have pointed this out about 10 times now.

The sides that are 1 and 2 on the ladder are also 1 and 2 for clearances, 1 and 2 for stoppage clearances and 2 and 4 for centre clearances. This is not some statistical anomaly.

By comparison, we were 7th, 7th and ironically 15th.

Snake its a no on Miles, he is just plain average. i've seen him live and on TV he adds nothing to our side that we dont already have. If we are looking for mids we have Cunnington, Higgins, Dumont, Swallow, Ziebel (id prefer forward too) as our main clearance players with hopefully Jacobs and Ahearn to play as well. Then we have alot to rotate through there with Simpkin, Garner, Gibson, McDonald, Hrovat, Clarke, Mountford, Hibberd. I would also like to see Macmillan with more mid time, especially if we can get Williams, Wright and EVW to hold down the defensive role. Add to that our first pick is likely to be a midfielder. I just dont see a spot for Miles. Miles is at his ceiling and its not what we need, id prefer to develop our own players.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Snake its a no on Miles, he is just plain average. i've seen him live and on TV he adds nothing to our side that we dont already have. If we are looking for mids we have Cunnington, Higgins, Dumont, Swallow, Ziebel (id prefer forward too) as our main clearance players with hopefully Jacobs and Ahearn to play as well. Then we have alot to rotate through there with Simpkin, Garner, Gibson, McDonald, Hrovat, Clarke, Mountford, Hibberd. I would also like to see Macmillan with more mid time, especially if we can get Williams, Wright and EVW to hold down the defensive role. Add to that our first pick is likely to be a midfielder. I just dont see a spot for Miles. Miles is at his ceiling and its not what we need, id prefer to develop our own players.

Thanks, are you are generally a good poster, but I am ignoring posts that are only critique and have no input in this thread.

Critique, by all means, but give me something as well.

 

[Snake_Baker]

That first statement is ridiculous. You can be slow and be a good clearance midfielder. Our own Swallow and Cunnington are slow especially when compared to other elite midfielders. Matt Crouch, Priddis, Kennedy, Ebert, Boak amongst a whole host of others are excellent inside midfielders that don't have any sort of speed. .

Okay, they're all slow. They also have something else in common. They are all good.

On the basis of our current line up, Miles makes us better, simply if it is only to get Jack forward.

 

[Sheezel2Wardlaw]

Miles!! Lol.... Ive lost it!!
The bloke is a good vfl player, thats all.

 

[czero]

So it does...

Sorry, i started typing it into my calculator and only got as far as '800' then i added '8135' and laughed. Then got lazy and thought it added up to 900k a year.

Daniher signed for 2mil over 3, thats 666k

 

[Arathrawn]

Thanks, are you are generally a good poster, but I am ignoring posts that are only critique and have no input in this thread.

Critique, by all means, but give me something as well.

I guess it all depends on where the club really thinks our list is at.

Say we land Kelly, then land Rockliff and Miles. Where would that put us? Add a fit Wright, Waite, Wood, Williams, Macmillian and a return to form of Goldy, we are playing finals and i guess that would be termed as an aggressive reset.

If we dont land Kelly we have to bite the bullet and go through the draft and continue to develop internally.

I loved when a couple of years ago we went after FA and got Waite, Higgins and Dal. We rolled the dice and had a crack but ultimately fell short. Do we do it again or is it the long road?

 

[Snake_Baker]

I guess it all depends on where the club really thinks our list is at.

Say we land Kelly, then land Rockliff and Miles. Where would that put us?

Inside the top 8.

Potentually top 4 considering Geelong and Richmond hold spots there currently.

2018

B: Williams, Tarrant, EVW
HB: MacMillan, Thompson/Neilsen, Mountford
C: McDonald, Rockliff, Kelly
HF: Garner, Wood, Higgins
F: Ziebell, Brown, Hrovat
R: Goldstein, Cunnington, Miles
Int: Preuss, Waite, Simpkin, Clarke
E: Neilsen, Wright, Jacobs, Mullet, Ahern, Hibberd, Zurhaar, Turner, DUMONT

Do we do it again or is it the long road?

The title of the thread is "aggressive reset". You have to give me something mate.

 

[archereleven]

Okay, they're all slow. They also have something else in common. They are all good.

On the basis of our current line up, Miles makes us better, simply if it is only to get Jack forward.

For the sake of using cap space, Rockliff would be a better get to release Jack. He is one that could be considered A grade on his day and very, very good otherwise.

A couple of questions for you-

What if we sign Rocky, Miles, TMac etc but can't land a couple of elite players after next season. Where does it leave our list?

Is the aggressive reset based purely on the signing of Josh Kelly? If so, I agree that is the path to go down.

 

[Kimbo]

Moving on to your next point, "make us better", he makes us better because he matches or improves our ability to win clearances, allows us to move JZ forward, and he is better than what else we have at the moment. I have pointed this out about 10 times now.

In regards to your 2nd point, about poor (I'll agree with you that terrible is an exaggeration) kicks, there are a number of players that reach AFL level without having good skills. If Miles had even above average skills he would be in Richmonds best 22. But he causes too many turnovers and thus is playing VFL footy.
It's a combination of poor decision making and not having the skills to execute.

Assuming there's some 'truth' to the poor disposal assessment, it would be ironic to see what Jack does on the end of 'hack kicks' out of the middle.

/play on

 

[Arathrawn]

Inside the top 8.

Potentually top 4 considering Geelong and Richmond hold spots there currently.



The title of the thread is "aggressive reset". You have to give me something mate.

If we are 100% committed to racing up the ladder next year. Given what is available im for Kelly, Rockliff and Trengove.

I dont buy the whole toxic personality of Rockliff, Trengove is under rated and allows us to play Thompson on 3rd tall while still developing Durdin and Neilson. Most importantly if we want to reset and go again next year, we must keep Goldy. He is a gun, we know this, we just got to get him back to it somehow.

 

[archereleven]

Inside the top 8.

Potentually top 4 considering Geelong and Richmond hold spots there currently.

2018

B: Williams, Tarrant, EVW
HB: MacMillan, Thompson/Neilsen, Mountford
C: McDonald, Rockliff, Kelly
HF: Garner, Wood, Higgins
F: Ziebell, Brown, Hrovat
R: Goldstein, Cunnington, Miles
Int: Preuss, Waite, Simpkin, Clarke
E: Neilsen, Wright, Jacobs, Mullet, Ahern, Hibberd, Zurhaar, Turner



The title of the thread is "aggressive reset". You have to give me something mate.

Mate, that midfield is flipping treacle...

Try Miles on the bench for Higgo/Lmac spelling Ben.

 

[Snake_Baker]

For the sake of using cap space, Rockliff would be a better get to release Jack. He is one that could be considered A grade on his day and very, very good otherwise.

Agree. Some of the knocks on him have been absurd.

A couple of questions for you-

What if we sign Rocky, Miles, TMac etc but can't land a couple of elite players after next season. Where does it leave our list?

Stronger and much less likely of getting constant hidings. Rocky would cost and is worth a 3-4 year contract. Miles and T-Mac could be gained for 2 years + a clause if we paid a little overs (money we have to spend anyway).

Is the aggressive reset based purely on the signing of Josh Kelly?

Not necessarily, we can line up and go hard for two players again next trading period (2018).

 

[remfan101]

Inside the top 8.

Potentually top 4 considering Geelong and Richmond hold spots there currently.

2018

B: Williams, Tarrant, EVW
HB: MacMillan, Thompson/Neilsen, Mountford
C: McDonald, Rockliff, Kelly
HF: Garner, Wood, Higgins
F: Ziebell, Brown, Hrovat
R: Goldstein, Cunnington, Miles
Int: Preuss, Waite, Simpkin, Clarke
E: Neilsen, Wright, Jacobs, Mullet, Ahern, Hibberd, Zurhaar, Turner



The title of the thread is "aggressive reset". You have to give me something mate.

Ohh I get it. You want Miles because Trent Dumont, who is 3 years younger and already better than miles, threatened a cab driver into running over your cat. Makes sense.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Mate, that midfield is ruddy treacle...

Try Miles on the bench for Higgo/Lmac spelling Ben.

A) You don't have to be the fastest bloke when you have the ball in your hands.
B) Thanks for the supercoach tips. If only you could put as much thought in to some trades.

 

[Snake_Baker]

If we are 100% committed to racing up the ladder next year. Given what is available im for Kelly, Rockliff and Trengove.

Trengove? I can't see his trade justified. We have quality kids lined up for Thommos spot.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Assuming there's some 'truth' to the poor disposal assessment, it would be ironic to see what Jack does on the end of 'hack kicks' out of the middle.

/play on

Ziebell one on one under high balls?

I know who my money is on. In fact, I pray this happens on a regular basis.

 

[Kimbo]

A couple of questions for you-

What if we sign Rocky, Miles, TMac etc but can't land a couple of elite players after next season. Where does it leave our list?

Is the aggressive reset based purely on the signing of Josh Kelly? If so, I agree that is the path to go down.

Good questions. Is it only an aggressive reset if we sign elite talent and, if we can't, does the strategy shift to rebuild? Of course, there are those who only ever saw 'aggressive reset' as a euphemism for rebuild.

I tend to think that external observers discount those like Luke, Wood, Garner, Turner, Dumont and even Brown who have been around for a few years. They also underestimate the '14 guys who lost a year or so of opportunity. While they still need experience, they've shown they're ready. Also, they discount the '15 guys, as if it's only now that we'll start going to the draft.

In short, to me, it's about 'sustained success' - being regular finalists - and the desire not to have to do a 'traditional five year rebuild', that was behind the 'aggressive reset' language. It was also a bit of spin to send members a message that we won't be down for long.

 

[Kimbo]

Ziebell one on one under high balls?

I know who my money is on. In fact, I pray this happens on a regular basis.

Twas humour Snake. Yeah, Jack would hold his own, but you'd always prefer delivery 'lace out'.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Twas humour Snake. Yeah, Jack would hold his own, but you'd always prefer delivery 'lace out'.

Subtleties and vagaries tend to get lost amongst the absurdities on this website.

I suggest you be a little more forthright in your communications.

 

[archereleven]

A) You don't have to be the fastest bloke when you have the ball in your hands.
B) Thanks for the supercoach tips. If only you could put as much thought in to some trades.

When you don't have it in ur hands a bit of tow helps, or are you saying the "meat grinder V2" will be in full effect and oppo mids will consider themselves lucky to win a clearance?

I get re feeling you want a circle jerk in here so I'll leave it at that. You don't even have Froggy in the above team...

 

[Snake_Baker]

When you don't have it in ur hands a bit of tow helps, or are you saying the "meat grinder V2" will be in full effect and oppo mids will consider themselves lucky to win a clearance?

Have you got something better?

I get re feeling you want a circle jerk in here so I'll leave it at that. You don't even have Froggy in the above team...

I put him on the bench to keep the tin foil hats in check.

 

[archereleven]

Good questions. Is it only an aggressive reset if we sign elite talent and, if we can't, does the strategy shift to rebuild? Of course, there are those who only ever saw 'aggressive reset' as a euphemism for rebuild.

I tend to think that external observers discount those like Luke, Wood, Garner, Turner, Dumont and even Brown who have been around for a few years. They also underestimate the '14 guys who lost a year or so of opportunity. While they still need experience, they've shown they're ready. Also, they discount the '15 guys, as if it's only now that we'll start going to the draft.

In short, to me, it's about 'sustained success' - being regular finalists - and the desire not to have to do a 'traditional five year rebuild', that was behind the 'aggressive reset' language. It was also a bit of spin to send members a message that we won't be down for long.

Good post.

The media won't bother looking at our past drafting, player development and overall improvement until it's blatantly obvious. If we sign Rocky & co we will also be rudderless until proven wrong...

 

[Roo-Boy]

Let's ho and get Kelly and Brad Scott is a good appointment and get Behind our great club and stop being so negative on Facebook about our club and Brad Scott. I had to leave those Facebook groups because too much negativity about our club and I not going to mention names of those Facebook negative posters

 

[Egga]

I don't think the current list is strong enough to win a premiership via an 'aggressive reset'. IF we managed to bring in Kelly AND Rockliff AND we got strong development out of the younger players AND we were able to maintain a healthy list for a full year then MAYBE at a stretch we might contend.

But that's too many ifs and maybes. The far more likely outcome is we end up with a watered down version of the above and a few more years of middling finishes. Not happy about a full rebuild, but personally I think that's the reality of where we're at. I'd prefer to go back to the draft, build a really strong core and then use FA/ trading to close specific gaps in the list.