AGM Date

[BlueBelle]

Really?
I seem to recall multiple "watch this spcae" comments regarding. November, then December, then January..............mid year EGM I think is the latest........
(Again....don't get precious BT and THS.......just another opinion

As I said, the only thing that has changed what they have said is circumstances. Everything has been on the money though.

 

[drusswaylander]

Really?
I seem to recall multiple "watch this spcae" comments regarding. November, then December, then January..............mid year EGM I think is the latest........
(Again....don't get precious BT and THS.......just another opinion )

Let me try another way..........if BT and THS do have direct access to someone at the club....say on the board or in close contact with people on the board.
Now lets assume that there is some division among the board regadinbg leadership.
This places the person they receive their info from in a faction. Pro or anti-Smorgon.
Lets assume after reading much of what they post, that the info they are receiving is from a board member that is anti-Smorgon.
Does everything they post represent the truth?

I'm sure they post in good faith and trust the person thats passing them information, but the very fact that they receive the information in the first place means that the person responsible is already undermining the board.
So our source appears to be somone who is anti-Smorgon and happy to break to confidence of the board room.........objective opinion or propaganda?

It will surprise many of you to know that I have no great love for Smorgon (yes Druss, you saw it here first), I just haven't developed an irrational hatred of the man for what amounts to a poorly handled end of year review.
Is he the best president in our history......not yet and maybe never.......is he the worst..............not by a long shot.

HBF, by saying the buck stops with Smorgon, despite the involvement of others.......is that not like saying sack the coach despite the loss clearly involving a poor performance from senior players?

What you don't love Smorgon...I thought you had his picture over your bed.... Shudders at the thought

I think you will be surprised to know that I don't hate Smorgon I just think he has become a polarising not unifying force at our club and you just can't go past the fact that he is an awful media performer. He is a backroom boy not front of house.

I agree with your take on how we should view inside source posts. People should maintain a healthy scepticism as we don't know the sources of information. There is a big difference between info from a boot studder or a board member/ potential board member. As you rightly point out the source will also have their spin on a situation which may not be entirely correct. Some posters on certain forums are all over any poster who seems to actually be from one camp or another( mainly Smorgon ) for not disclosing any connection yet still accept as gospel any information from an "inside source"(mainly anti-Smorgon ) that comes from a regular poster

If you actually look at most of the inside source posts when they actually deal with specifics rather than generalities they are wrong more often than not. I'm sure most posters share this information in good faith and it does add to the board as the debate is generally interesting. The danger is if people accept this information hook line and sinker.

If I don't see someone who claims to be an inside source poster posting in any of the positive threads about our kids then you have to worry about their motives.

This post is with apologies to those who post in good faith. They know who they are..which I guess is the point really...most of us don't

 

[HBF]

He's the chairman of the board, not the fuhrer. If the board's divided (most boards are - but the divisions aren't publicised), then it's not up to him to impose his edict on it. He might have deciding vote if the board is 50-50, but otherwise he's just another director.

If there is strong division, then it's his job to try and guide the group to a concensus decision which everyone can live with. That's what he did. The fact that someone decided to leak the half-baked procedings isn't his responsibility.

It's not the division that makes us look bad - it's the leaks from the boardroom. Division doesn't help, but without leaks do you think we'd be reading crap about it?

I thought that was Caro's job?

 

[AlecDuncan]

I thought that was Caro's job?

That's who I was talking about - writing crap that is.

 

[Bee Vee]

It will surprise many of you to know that I have no great love for Smorgon (yes Druss, you saw it here first), I just haven't developed an irrational hatred of the man for what amounts to a poorly handled end of year review.
Is he the best president in our history......not yet and maybe never.......is he the worst..............not by a long shot.

Does it come down to love or hate?

Why cant we make an assessment on the boards performance?
We are currently being outperformed by perrenial strugglers like the Kangas and Hawthorn off field.
Our revenue is below theirs and about half of Collingwoods.

What initiatives have this board introduced to grow the club other than bringing forward monies?

You're right. Smorgon isnt the worst president in our history but is that the new benchmark?
Lets compare outselves against the best instead of the worst. Thats what we should be aspiring to.

 

[AlecDuncan]

We are currently being outperformed by perrenial strugglers like the Kangas and Hawthorn off field.

We're being out-performed by the Kangaroos? By what measure?

 

[Blue Thunder]

He alone?
Actually HBF, it appeared at the time that Sticks and Gleeson were in it up to their eyeballs.........please don't rewrite history.



Boardroom leaks are his fault? Interesting. Throws up a conundrum for you in that you throw out feelers for BT and THS to provide you with an opinion, yet, if they are to be trusted and have "inside information", are the very leaks that you now blame Smorgon for. I'm not sure how you can reconcile these two.

The board membership thing was laughable.......as I have pointed out, Smorgon was damned if he did (reduce the board) and quite clearly damned if he didn't. Is it just possible that the new appointments (one of which was to replace a director that was going to quite months ago) may actually add some expertise that we require.............or is it purely just shoreing up the numbers?



Now BT before you read below, don't get all teary on me. I do appreciate your posts as being informative, but like any good forum I choose to express an alternative point of view.

No doubt the club review was handled poorly, and has left the club with a poor situation, that of Mitchell remaining on as assistant.
Just how, given our on-field perfromances, was the current board, led by Smorgon, since he started in April, supposed to have erradicated the club debt, fix cash flow problems, and, given the likes of the current media (not helped by Sticks), and posters like you leaking nothing but negativity, fix the perceptions of the club?

It seems to me that Smorgon suffers from not having charisma. He is being put to the sword because of his inability to fix the club in 8 months...........sorry, but thats just the biggest load os BS that I've ever heard.
Blaming him for our current financial predicament is far worse than Blaming Pagan for our playing list, and most of us understand what a silly arguement that is.
The potential train wreck that is our club was taken over by Smorgon while running flat out towards a very large wall.
Unless BT or THS choose to enlighten me as to missed opportunities, IMHO the current board could not have possibly produced the results being called for in the quote above.
They are slowing the train down, and it won't hit the wall, but it will take time to turn around and head the right direction.
They have previously mention lack of sponsorship fulfillments as evidence of this financial mismangagement.
I can only imagine, given our current on-field performances, how hard it could be to sell these sponsorships. The fact they filled their quotas for next year astounds me.

As for the rival ticket thing, there were serious rumblings in October led by Fraser Brown about a rival ticket. That was 10 weeks ago, and with another couple of weeks until the deadline, it will be about 3 months all told. Now I concede BT the the following 2 weeks is not long enough to get a ticket together, but 3 months is in anyones book.
What has occurred since the Pagan/Mitchell debarcle that has suddenly caused a stir to form a new ticket. IMO if these people were serious then they would have "sounded out" (as per your Rats in the Ranks) support and candidates. The prosepct that this is unlikely to happen, of course is now used by anti-Smorgonites to bag him, rather than it be used to rubbish the potential suitors to the job. Yet another no-win situation (as per the board numbers joke).
Maybe they couldn't get the numbers because those who would want the positions can see that the club is in good hands......maybe they don't think they could do any better, and want Smorgon to continue to take the hard decisions so they can come in when things look a bit better and take the glory.......maybe they quite simply don't exist in the form that you would like to believe.

I continue to sit and watch, digesting only what is observable, and letting the rest of the drivel pass "through to the keeper".

Hi BB, good post above but thought I would take the time to respond to some of the key points you have made and highlighted.

BB Points:

1). "if they are to be trusted and have "inside information", are the very leaks that you now blame Smorgon for". - A strong and united board will still have leaks, the difference being that it is generally rare and when there are leaks it is positive information that is leaked from a well run club, not all the dissapointing information the supporters have been subject to for so long now.

2). the club review was handled poorly, This is putting it lightly in my view. The handling of this was disgraceful and like him or hate him Dennis Pagan was unreasonably dragged through a dirty situation. This reflected an extremely poor example of how to conduct such end of season reviews and in my view was embarrassing.

3) since he started in April, supposed to have erradicated the club debt, fix cash flow problems, and, given the likes of the current media (not helped by Sticks), and posters like you leaking nothing but negativity, fix the perceptions of the club? I think you are sugar coating this a little. Smorgon was an inagural member of this board that took over from Elliot in 2002. With the number of corporate heavyweights that support this club why has the board not been able to make drastic improvements in debt and cash flow levels? I will tell you why, because it is about perception (which you have questioned above) and perception is everything. People do not have confidence in the leadership of the club and will therefore hold back from putting in the dollars. This does not relate only to the corporate sector but also the membership (why was there such a drastic reduction in membership for 2006).

4). It seems to me that Smorgon suffers from not having charisma. He is being put to the sword because of his inability to fix the club in 8 months...........sorry, but thats just the biggest load os BS that I've ever heard. All great leaders have charisma. This contributes to people wanting to be part of the club, assisting the club and having confidence in the direction and brand of the club. This is not a small issue it is one of the primary reason's we are failing at the moment.

This is the reason Eddie McGuire was able to turn around Collingwood in such a short period of time. The momentum created by him leading the club was significant.

5). Unless BT or THS choose to enlighten me as to missed opportunities, Ability to demand higher sponsorship dollars, players not wanting to come to and stay with the club, membership decreasing and benefactors refusing to put money in as they once did.

6). The fact they filled their quotas for next year astounds me. If I were selling Bananas 50% less than the average price I would likely sell all my stock as well.

The issue is not about filling the sponsorship quota it is about maximising the $$ received for doing so. Dont be deceived or mislead that we are performing well ont his front, if we were then why would we have such cash flow issues?

7). Now I concede BT the the following 2 weeks is not long enough to get a ticket together, but 3 months is in anyones book. You certainly have some substance here but let me assure you that getting a ticket together containing the calibre of people intended is not simple and quickly arranged. It took the Collins ticket over 6 months to finalize members and the campaign they proceeded to use to oust Elliot.

In addition and perhaps to your argument some of these people were prepared to sit back and see if Smorgon could lead us out of the darkness however the farcical situation with the Coaching position and the damning AFL report have added to the dissatisfaction and therefore momentum of the cause for those now coming forward.

8). maybe they quite simply don't exist in the form that you would like to believe. Unless I am having severe dillussions then these people certainly do exist in the physical form.

I think this is justified by the public declaration of their dissatisfaction and intention to seek a position on the board. This has been widely reported in the press, not just posted by myself and others on BF.

Here is a post from Nov that I think clearly supports my view of the situation without being pro any faction - all I am seeking is a stronger club:

Caroline Wilson Post - November.
----------------------------------------------------------
Look Deej I know your intentions are good, so are all of us who really care about the club, but people have different views and opinions on what they believe is beneficial for the club.

My view is that the club has been a laughing stock for so many years now and our leadership has been significantly lacking that it is a wonder that many supporters have'nt thrown in the towel.

Yes I am in a fortunate position of being privy to some things that are happening but the only reason I am posting certain information is because there is so much talk on this board of dissatisfaction with the way the club is being managed and people screaming out for change. If I was not informed of the things that are going on I would be a very frustrated supporter thinking that things were not going to change.

My credentials and so forth have nothing to do with the details I post, it is up to the individual to assess whether my posts are accurate, biased or complete rumour and inuendo.

Deej at the end of the day if there is a change for the better and we improve our leadership then great. If not and Smorgon manages to fight off the challengers then he wins my respect and many others, and who knows this may result in more corporate and high profile powerbrokers feeling more confident in the leadership of the club and being prepared to put money forward.

Either way the club will come out all the more stronger and that is what I want to achieve.

------------------------------------------------------------

Like I have said on a number of occassions, it is unfortunate that we need to go through this situation and public mud-slinging but I firmly believe that when the dust settles the club will come out of this all the stronger and we will then be able to forge forward.

 

[drusswaylander]

Was Sinn the saviour that yourself and THS were talking about though BT?

 

[BlueFeaver]

Hi BB, good post above but thought I would take the time to respond to some of the key points you have made and highlighted.

BB Points:

1). "if they are to be trusted and have "inside information", are the very leaks that you now blame Smorgon for". - A strong and united board will still have leaks, the difference being that it is generally rare and when there are leaks it is positive information that is leaked from a well run club, not all the dissapointing information the supporters have been subject to for so long now.

2). the club review was handled poorly, This is putting it lightly in my view. The handling of this was disgraceful and like him or hate him Dennis Pagan was unreasonably dragged through a dirty situation. This reflected an extremely poor example of how to conduct such end of season reviews and in my view was embarrassing.

3) since he started in April, supposed to have erradicated the club debt, fix cash flow problems, and, given the likes of the current media (not helped by Sticks), and posters like you leaking nothing but negativity, fix the perceptions of the club? I think you are sugar coating this a little. Smorgon was an inagural member of this board that took over from Elliot in 2002. With the number of corporate heavyweights that support this club why has the board not been able to make drastic improvements in debt and cash flow levels? I will tell you why, because it is about perception (which you have questioned above) and perception is everything. People do not have confidence in the leadership of the club and will therefore hold back from putting in the dollars. This does not relate only to the corporate sector but also the membership (why was there such a drastic reduction in membership for 2006).

4). It seems to me that Smorgon suffers from not having charisma. He is being put to the sword because of his inability to fix the club in 8 months...........sorry, but thats just the biggest load os BS that I've ever heard. All great leaders have charisma. This contributes to people wanting to be part of the club, assisting the club and having confidence in the direction and brand of the club. This is not a small issue it is one of the primary reason's we are failing at the moment.

This is the reason Eddie McGuire was able to turn around Collingwood in such a short period of time. The momentum created by him leading the club was significant.

5). Unless BT or THS choose to enlighten me as to missed opportunities, Ability to demand higher sponsorship dollars, players not wanting to come to and stay with the club, membership decreasing and benefactors refusing to put money in as they once did.

6). The fact they filled their quotas for next year astounds me. If I were selling Bananas 50% less than the average price I would likely sell all my stock as well.

The issue is not about filling the sponsorship quota it is about maximising the $$ received for doing so. Dont be deceived or mislead that we are performing well ont his front, if we were then why would we have such cash flow issues?

7). Now I concede BT the the following 2 weeks is not long enough to get a ticket together, but 3 months is in anyones book. You certainly have some substance here but let me assure you that getting a ticket together containing the calibre of people intended is not simple and quickly arranged. It took the Collins ticket over 6 months to finalize members and the campaign they proceeded to use to oust Elliot.

In addition and perhaps to your argument some of these people were prepared to sit back and see if Smorgon could lead us out of the darkness however the farcical situation with the Coaching position and the damning AFL report have added to the dissatisfaction and therefore momentum of the cause for those now coming forward.

8). maybe they quite simply don't exist in the form that you would like to believe. Unless I am having severe dillussions then these people certainly do exist in the physical form.

I think this is justified by the public declaration of their dissatisfaction and intention to seek a position on the board. This has been widely reported in the press, not just posted by myself and others on BF.

Here is a post from Nov that I think clearly supports my view of the situation without being pro any faction - all I am seeking is a stronger club:

Caroline Wilson Post - November.
----------------------------------------------------------
Look Deej I know your intentions are good, so are all of us who really care about the club, but people have different views and opinions on what they believe is beneficial for the club.

My view is that the club has been a laughing stock for so many years now and our leadership has been significantly lacking that it is a wonder that many supporters have'nt thrown in the towel.

Yes I am in a fortunate position of being privy to some things that are happening but the only reason I am posting certain information is because there is so much talk on this board of dissatisfaction with the way the club is being managed and people screaming out for change. If I was not informed of the things that are going on I would be a very frustrated supporter thinking that things were not going to change.

My credentials and so forth have nothing to do with the details I post, it is up to the individual to assess whether my posts are accurate, biased or complete rumour and inuendo.

Deej at the end of the day if there is a change for the better and we improve our leadership then great. If not and Smorgon manages to fight off the challengers then he wins my respect and many others, and who knows this may result in more corporate and high profile powerbrokers feeling more confident in the leadership of the club and being prepared to put money forward.

Either way the club will come out all the more stronger and that is what I want to achieve.

------------------------------------------------------------

Like I have said on a number of occassions, it is unfortunate that we need to go through this situation and public mud-slinging but I firmly believe that when the dust settles the club will come out of this all the stronger and we will then be able to forge forward.

Just like to say, great post!

Your comments are logical and represent the thoughts of many CFC supporters, hopefully some posters read this and understand why a change is needed. The longer things continue the longer we will fall behind the rest of the group.

 

[Jock]

I'm don't dislike Smorgan, unfortunately he is damaged goods. And yes it seems it's not entirely his fault. It seems he has been undermined.
The question is why has he been undermined. Good leaders command respect and even when they have to make a call others dont entirely agree with they have built a rapport that others respect and still support them for collective unity.

For reasons we will never know he doesn't seem respected within or now outside the club.

This is damaging for our club as we will recieve further bad press our membership will suffer and sponsorship you'd imagine won't come flooding through the door due to the lack of stability and confidence of our organisation.

So a new ticket would be good for our club. I read the new ticket would most likely not challange the two new guys which would be good.

Like you all I just want some stability so we can slowly win back creditability, perception is the current board cannot achieve this now.

 

[JeffDunne]

Was Sinn the saviour that yourself and THS were talking about though BT?

I was wondering that too.

 

[Blue Thunder]

I was wondering that too.

Certainly was spoken about some months ago but has not been mentioned in my circle of friends since.

Is a very shrewd operator and someone who will definately focus on building the right people around him.

I think once a change is in place it will be the genesis of the club re-uniting the disenchanted powerbrokers that are all seperately working behind the scenes to get something done.

Remember that all these people want a strong successful club as much as the supporters. A strong presence in leadership will encourage those back to the club and that is what this club needs to get up off the canvass.

 

[BlueBelle]

Certainly was spoken about some months ago but has not been mentioned in my circle of friends since.

Is a very shrewd operator and someone who will definately focus on building the right people around him.

I think once a change is in place it will be the genesis of the club re-uniting the disenchanted powerbrokers that are all seperately working behind the scenes to get something done.

Remember that all these people want a strong successful club as much as the supporters. A strong presence in leadership will encourage those back to the club and that is what this club needs to get up off the canvass.

Will another ticket be announced or is this it?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Certainly was spoken about some months ago but has not been mentioned in my circle of friends since.

So fair to say he is not the one that we were going to be falling over ourselves about?

Was that person on this ticket originally or the De Lutis ticket and will they run again or have they gone?

 

[HBF]

HBF, by saying the buck stops with Smorgon, despite the involvement of others.......is that not like saying sack the coach despite the loss clearly involving a poor performance from senior players?

Yes BB.
If the coach cannot get the players to perform at a standard that is up to AFL level, then yes he should be replaced. It's far easier to replace 1 coach than say a group of players.

 

[HBF]

So fair to say he is not the one that we were going to be falling over ourselves about?

Was that person on this ticket originally or the De Lutis ticket and will they run again or have they gone?

Have been thinking the same thing ODN.

 

[drusswaylander]

Certainly was spoken about some months ago but has not been mentioned in my circle of friends since.

Is a very shrewd operator and someone who will definately focus on building the right people around him.

I think once a change is in place it will be the genesis of the club re-uniting the disenchanted powerbrokers that are all seperately working behind the scenes to get something done.

Remember that all these people want a strong successful club as much as the supporters. A strong presence in leadership will encourage those back to the club and that is what this club needs to get up off the canvass.

Well if Sinn isn't the saviour why should we vote him in if the "white knight" is out there looking for his horse and the knights for his round table

Wouldn't voting in another faction( how many do we have now?) just make it harder for the messiah to take his/her rightful place when they finally get an organised challenge together...sometime...in the future...maybe

 

[drusswaylander]

Smorgon is probably not the man to lead us back to the top of the tree.
Unfortunately many seem to be clutching at straws and in fact seem desperate in this backing of the Sinn ticket.

The ticket that still only has two confirmed starters if you go by the Age story. To me you should actually change for the better not just for the sake of change itself

 

[Bluebear]

Yes BB.
If the coach cannot get the players to perform at a standard that is up to AFL level, then yes he should be replaced. It's far easier to replace 1 coach than say a group of players.

Thats true. The history of our code shows that th easy option is to sack the coach...........just because its the easy option deosn't make it the right one. Sometimes trading your star player can be the right move (E.g. Lockett at the Saints).
Point is, people have been critical of Smorgon for having a disunified board, maybe some of the "star" board members need to move on.

Secondly, I think its great that another ticket has been announced. I just hope that posters here demand the same level of information (e.g. business plans etc) before they swallow the hype. I am not agiant change, just against change for changes sake........window dressing. If the new ticket can show us why they would do a better job then great, they have my vote. If all we get is big names and hype.......better the devil you know.