2nds Ah Chee player of the week

[Janus]

Young has been the starting sub in 16 out of his 36 AFL games (44%), Moore has been the starting sub in 6 out of his 50 AFL games (12%).

Given that Moore is a year older, has more AFL experience, and gets more gametime when he is in the side, the fact that Young's stats stack up pretty evenly against Moore's indicates that Young is indeed the better talent.

Alright, he's a year older. Let's make it fair and compare Young this year to Moore last year, because Young has only been sub once I believe this year and Moore was sub 4 times last year, hence the 53.1% TOG:

With an excellent game against North where he gather 18 possessions, 2 marks, 8 clearances, 1 rebound 50, 7 tackles and a goal and another solid possession based game against Hawthorn the following week where he got 25 possessions, 2 marks, 2 tackles and a goal, I would have thought his averages would have been much higher since he's 'indeed the better talent' and has a smaller sample size to dilute the stats.

Guess he fell off a cliff against Adelaide and West Coast and was deservedly dropped, huh? Better talent he may be, but unless you can bring a consistent performance week in week out, you're not going to get anywhere. That's why one of these players has played in every finals game since 2013 and the other has not. QED.

 

[FallingLiefs]

2013: Moore plays 2 finals, Young is sub in 2
2014: Moore is sub in 3 finals, Young doesn't play.

Young is more the ball magnet and flashy clearance player whereas Moore seems to be the harder more team orientated player. On potential Young > Moore but after 5 years and not really taking steps forward in possesion count or blocks etc I feel Moore is going to be the more capable AFL player.

As I've said multiple times, unless Young learns to get 25 touches a game consistently he's not worth having in the team because as far as I've seen Moore makes others better, Young does not. Why we block for Young bemuses me as there are far more talented mids in our lineup.

 

[Long live PAFC]

First of all, Young is not an inside mid - he's a HFF who can spend some time in the midfield as an inside/outside player and is excellent at clearing the ball. He's more Brad Ebert than Ollie Wines.

Secondly, even if he WAS an inside mid - why wouldn't we roll with all of them? Does having a grand total of 4 inside mids (Wines, Young, Moore, Ah Chee) mean we have an abundance of them to the point where on a 40 man list we would rather play another flanker over one of them? Imagine what would happen to the Magpies if one of Moore/Ah Chee/Young wasn't in the squad.

As long as all of them are happy enough to stay with the club, I'm happy enough to give them contracts.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of all three and don't disagree with what you are saying. I also very much agree with what you have said about Moore being a more accomplished AFL player at this stage - the potential of all three is still yet to be fully realised.

I was broadly speaking to the mandatory delistings we have to make at the end of the year and that midfield depth is probably the one area we are relatively well covered in. So if you aren't a first 22 player and continuously on the fringe, then your spot will come into question, rightly or wrongly.

Young came into the side for Wines, correct me if I am wrong, and played well in that attacking inside role. I would certainly group him with Moore and Ah Chee - particularly as they are all fighting for that same 22nd spot at this stage. But ultimately that is just semantics.

 

[Forzaport]

That's why one of these players has played in every finals game since 2013 and the other has not. QED.

As much as I detest these Moore vs Young comparisons, in fairness, Young got injured at exactly the wrong time late last season which probably just edged him out of finals selection. Also, Moore was sub in all finals last year so the gap between the two would have been tiny at best.

Moore being injured this pre-season then suspended when Wines got injured has been disastrous and really has put him so far back in the pack that I'm not sure it's salvageable as far as his Port Adelaide career goes. On the flip side, Young has a great pre-season, excellent SANFL form and has leapfrogged his way to AFL selection, twice. It's up to Moore now to push hard at the selection door and pressure Young or S.Gray for their spot.

 

[Janus]

As much as I detest these Moore vs Young comparisons, in fairness, Young got injured at exactly the wrong time late last season which probably just edged him out of finals selection. Also, Moore was sub in all finals last year so the gap between the two would have been tiny at best.

Moore being injured this pre-season then suspended when Wines got injured has been disastrous and really has put him so far back in the pack that I'm not sure it's salvageable as far as his Port Adelaide career goes. On the flip side, Young has a great pre-season, excellent SANFL form and has leapfrogged his way to AFL selection, twice. It's up to Moore now to push hard at the selection door and pressure Young or S.Gray for their spot.

Yeah, don't agree with that. If it has then the coaches need to stop reading this board, because Moore has strung together 3 great games in a row with a 2nd best and two 3rd bests, and it could be argued that the only reason it hasn't been two 2nd bests and one 3rd best is because Harvey had a good game against Glenelg and they wanted to reward his endeavor.

The first time Young got selected wasn't a leapfrog - he was playing better football and should have been in the side instead of Neade in Round 1. Hinkley was on record as saying that Moore probably wouldn't have been in the selection frame even if he hadn't been suspended, purely because they were committed to playing the in-form player in Young and brought in Ah Chee to see what he could offer.

The second time Moore had only just come back from his suspension and had played two games, so Young was pretty much always going to get the nod before him. But this idea that somehow Young is locked into the 22 and we can afford to carry him through bad games is ridiculous. Moore is already pressuring for a spot through consistent performances - I'll guarantee that as soon as he has a game where he is considered best on and plays for four quarters he'll be in the side. Ask yourself why they used Moore's stats for Young's selection the other week on the website - it's because Moore had the better, more well rounded game, but they simply couldn't select him based on two good games after three weeks off.

As for S.Gray...please. As I said in the podcast, when the best thing you can say about a player is that he hit a regulation AFL pass to a player and does the pressure acts that every player on the team is meant to be doing and then use that as justification for keeping his spot in the team, then he's only ever in that team as a placeholder. He'll be sub tonight and then out of the team next week if I had anything to do with it.

 

[Forzaport]

Yeah, don't agree with that. If it has then the coaches need to stop reading this board, because Moore has strung together 3 great games in a row with a 2nd best and two 3rd bests, and it could be argued that the only reason it hasn't been two 2nd bests and one 3rd best is because Harvey had a good game against Glenelg and they wanted to reward his endeavor.

The first time Young got selected wasn't a leapfrog - he was playing better football and should have been in the side instead of Neade in Round 1. Hinkley was on record as saying that Moore probably wouldn't have been in the selection frame even if he hadn't been suspended, purely because they were committed to playing the in-form player in Young and brought in Ah Chee to see what he could offer.

The second time Moore had only just come back from his suspension and had played two games, so Young was pretty much always going to get the nod before him. But this idea that somehow Young is locked into the 22 and we can afford to carry him through bad games is ridiculous. Moore is already pressuring for a spot through consistent performances - I'll guarantee that as soon as he has a game where he is considered best on and plays for four quarters he'll be in the side. Ask yourself why they used Moore's stats for Young's selection the other week on the website - it's because Moore had the better, more well rounded game, but they simply couldn't select him based on two good games after three weeks off.

As for S.Gray...please. As I said in the podcast, when the best thing you can say about a player is that he hit a regulation AFL pass to a player and does the pressure acts that every player on the team is meant to be doing and then use that as justification for keeping his spot in the team, then he's only ever in that team as a placeholder. He'll be sub tonight and then out of the team next week if I had anything to do with it.

I'm not sure what you don't agree with. I think Moore deserves AFL selection but it's clear the coaches want him to be more beastly at SANFL level. I agree that when he gets that BOG which should include a full 4 qtr effort, he'll probably be selected and I reckon it'll likely come at the expense of Young or S.Gray as we appear to be locked into a selection strategy that prioritises structure.

I used the term 'leapfrog' in the context of moving from 2014, where Young was behind Moore come finals time, to 2015 where Young has clearly jumped ahead of Moore.

 

[Pedro59]

Yeah, don't agree with that. If it has then the coaches need to stop reading this board, because Moore has strung together 3 great games in a row with a 2nd best and two 3rd bests, and it could be argued that the only reason it hasn't been two 2nd bests and one 3rd best is because Harvey had a good game against Glenelg and they wanted to reward his endeavor.

The first time Young got selected wasn't a leapfrog - he was playing better football and should have been in the side instead of Neade in Round 1. Hinkley was on record as saying that Moore probably wouldn't have been in the selection frame even if he hadn't been suspended, purely because they were committed to playing the in-form player in Young and brought in Ah Chee to see what he could offer.

The second time Moore had only just come back from his suspension and had played two games, so Young was pretty much always going to get the nod before him. But this idea that somehow Young is locked into the 22 and we can afford to carry him through bad games is ridiculous. Moore is already pressuring for a spot through consistent performances - I'll guarantee that as soon as he has a game where he is considered best on and plays for four quarters he'll be in the side. Ask yourself why they used Moore's stats for Young's selection the other week on the website - it's because Moore had the better, more well rounded game, but they simply couldn't select him based on two good games after three weeks off.

As for S.Gray...please. As I said in the podcast, when the best thing you can say about a player is that he hit a regulation AFL pass to a player and does the pressure acts that every player on the team is meant to be doing and then use that as justification for keeping his spot in the team, then he's only ever in that team as a placeholder. He'll be sub tonight and then out of the team next week if I had anything to do with it.

Maybe Sam can do a Pittard and come good
Why is Hinkley persisting with him
I'll forgive the coming up to speed nerves but can someone tell me at SANFL level what is Sammys forte
In and under player?
Ball magnet ?

 

[Sleezy]

Yep, Ah Chee looks pretty and shiny and new. I bet if he comes in and plays a full game for less then 10 touches, people will be like 'Oh, but dat HANDBALL!'

The last game Moore played he had 7 disposals, 5 contested possessions, 2 marks, 1 clearance, 1 inside 50 and 2 tackles from 24% game time. That was the preliminary final against Hawthorn. He also got into a position to actually win the game with one of those marks inside 50.

Against the might of West Coast, Ah Chee had 4 disposals, 3 contested possessions, 2 marks, 3 clearances, 4 tackles and 2 inside 50s from 24% game time.

Now tell me again about how Ah Chee has done more in his AFL career than Moore.

In fairness to Ah Chee - in that game against West Coast he did exactly what Moore does in SANFL but not the AFL: he bashed, he crashed, he threw his weight around and tackled with intent.

But i agree that saying that his three games as sub > moore's career is a little insulting.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Saw a little bit of Frampton in the highlights package and he looks alright. After watching athletic ruckmen take Lobbe to the cleaners last night I think Frampton could be our version of the prototypical ruckman athlete. Looks like he can run around like a mid and isn't afraid to mark the ball and kick it.

Hoping that Howard has a good hitout today, these guys could be our future ruck combo.

I can see why the big lumbering kids aren't picked any more in drafts.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Yeah, don't agree with that. If it has then the coaches need to stop reading this board, because Moore has strung together 3 great games in a row with a 2nd best and two 3rd bests, and it could be argued that the only reason it hasn't been two 2nd bests and one 3rd best is because Harvey had a good game against Glenelg and they wanted to reward his endeavor.

The first time Young got selected wasn't a leapfrog - he was playing better football and should have been in the side instead of Neade in Round 1. Hinkley was on record as saying that Moore probably wouldn't have been in the selection frame even if he hadn't been suspended, purely because they were committed to playing the in-form player in Young and brought in Ah Chee to see what he could offer.

The second time Moore had only just come back from his suspension and had played two games, so Young was pretty much always going to get the nod before him. But this idea that somehow Young is locked into the 22 and we can afford to carry him through bad games is ridiculous. Moore is already pressuring for a spot through consistent performances - I'll guarantee that as soon as he has a game where he is considered best on and plays for four quarters he'll be in the side. Ask yourself why they used Moore's stats for Young's selection the other week on the website - it's because Moore had the better, more well rounded game, but they simply couldn't select him based on two good games after three weeks off.

As for S.Gray...please. As I said in the podcast, when the best thing you can say about a player is that he hit a regulation AFL pass to a player and does the pressure acts that every player on the team is meant to be doing and then use that as justification for keeping his spot in the team, then he's only ever in that team as a placeholder. He'll be sub tonight and then out of the team next week if I had anything to do with it.

I think people underestimate Moore's career to date and comments in this thread seem to support that thought. I had a look back at what he's done and was surprised to see he's played 50 games. And if you look at his top 10 games statistically, it's game 9 before he dips below a 20 possession game. Plus he does a heap of tough blue collar bullocking work in packs.

 

[Smithy7]

Liked the interview with Ah Chee on the BF Port Podcast Ep. 3.34