List Mgmt. Ahern, LDU & Simpkin

Roosurgence

Norm Smith Medallist
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It’s not about playing them all at once it’s about rotating them through the squad to give them exposure.

No one is saying drop all veterans and replace them with kids and have a team that is just kids.

It means that some of the veterans may have to rotate through the VFL or have a rest, to give exposure to a kid. The kid won’t have the output, but that game at the top level is more valuable than any hollow win with players that aren’t going to be part of your next premiership.

This means guys like LDU, Ahern, Scott, Watson, Walker, Hayden, McKay, Durdin, Taylor and even Crocker should get games at sometime during the year regardless if they might not be 100% reday.

But you wouldn’t have them all in the team at the same time. It may mean someone like a Higgins is rested for a week.
 
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Roosurgence

Norm Smith Medallist
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Yep, every one of them deserves to be in the side to, he isn't just gifting any of them games. He picks the best team to try to win the football match regardless of age. Revolutionary stuff!
You seem to be forgetting that he gave a lot of these guys game time when they weren’t ready and Brisbane copped some beltings while doing it.

Now these guys have had exposure to the level previously they are repaying that investment.

He is still doing it to a point, because Rayner on form isn’t deserving of game time. But he knows that putting the games into him now, means he will be cherry ripe when they make their push.

What would everyone rather, games into some kids when you know you aren’t playing finals or some cheap wins and then delayed development due to no exposure at the top level? Playing VFL doesn’t make these kids AFL level players, playing at AFL level is what elevates them.
 
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Go_Roos!

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You seem to be forgetting that he gave a lot of these guys game time when they weren’t ready and Brisbane copped some beltings while doing it.

Now these guys have had exposure to the level previously they are repaying that investment.

He is still doing it to a point, because Rayner on form isn’t deserving of game time. But he knows that putting the games into him now, means he will be cherry ripe when they make their push.

What would everyone rather, games into some kids when you know you aren’t playing finals or some cheap wins and then delayed development due to no exposure at the top level? Playing VFL doesn’t make these kids too like AFL players, playing at AFL level is what elevates them.
He gave them game time because they were the best players he had available.
 

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Grogg

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Or the Brad Scott route?

That’s been really successful too.

Don’t judge Carlton too quickly, if it clicks for them they have the talent to climb up that ladder very quickly. Maybe a new coach will also bring the success they need?

At the moment I know which list I would rather have.
Lobbe, Curnow, Thomas, Fasolo, Casboult = cooked potatoes.

Murphy & Kreuzer are the other elder stateman who have their obvious issues.

Throw in a Silvagni or 2.....hmmm.....

They aren't without some serious flaws still down there & that's after 15 years of being total garbage.
 

Roosurgence

Norm Smith Medallist
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He gave them game time because they were the best players he had available.
That’s not correct. He had veterans he could have played that would have given him better output when these kids first came in.

He chose to go play those kids, give them exposure and clear out the deadwood.

Brad Scott instead of clearing the deadwood likes to add it to his list.

The Tyson trade is looking like a disaster the longer this year progresses. A position we had covered anyway, which made it even more puzzling.

If that trade alone didn’t tell you this guy thought we would be challenging then you just have blinkers on.

Time to move him on, develop what we have, clear the deadwood and go to the draft.
 

Roosurgence

Norm Smith Medallist
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Lobbe, Curnow, Thomas, Fasolo, Casboult = cooked potatoes.

Murphy & Kreuzer are the other elder stateman who have their obvious issues.

Throw in a Silvagni or 2.....hmmm.....

They aren't without some serious flaws still down there & that's after 15 years of being total garbage.
If course the list has flaws, that’s why they are still shit.

But they do have the top end talent to come good.
 

Go_Roos!

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That’s not correct. He had veterans he could have played that would have given him better output when these kids first came in.

He chose to go play those kids, give them exposure and clear out the deadwood.

Brad Scott instead of clearing the deadwood likes to add it to his list.

The Tyson trade is looking like a disaster the longer this year progresses. A position we had covered anyway, which made it even more puzzling.

If that trade alone didn’t tell you this guy thought we would be challenging then you just have blinkers on.

Time to move him on, develop what we have, clear the deadwood and go to the draft.
I agree with a lot of your post, I don't have blinkers on. I want a new coach as much as the next person!
 

Waussie

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What about this, bring the young lads into the midfield as you said but swing TT to a forward flank, Larkey to CHF and Ziebull to a back flank and drop Lmac. Bring Higgo up to the other Half Forward or Forward Pocket. This gives a bit of class to the Forward line and mongrel to the backline, you could almost use Ziebull as a Lachie Hansen intercept type ..... Throw it around a bit, what does it matter now.
I actually agree with nearly all of this, but I would swap Larkey and Brown and get them to change it up occasionally.
 

Shagga is all Class

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A decent coach would have made the move on Saturday.

As soon as Clarke got on top of him, he should have made the move to break the tag by sending him to half back.

If Clarke continued to tag him as a forward it plays into our hands, as Clarke wouldn’t have any impact as a forward and if not Higgins ball use out of the back half has to be better than McDonald or McMillan.

McMillan could have been pushed up to the wing.
Agree.

Mentioned previously that we could easily accomodate some of our youngsters in the middle and move some senior players like Higgins, Ziebell to the flanks.

Plan A would be to give LDU, Ahern games and midfield minutes with Cunners. Most senior players would still deliver quality output from the flanks.

Plan B would be to revert to the senior players in the square mid game. Or possibly earlier given our 2nd quarters.

Of course all this would require Brad to drop bland flankers like LMAC, Turner, JMAC which he will not do. He likes vanilla. He doesn't not like Hartungs or Halls as they are too polarising.
 

DesertRoo

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So Piggy Zurhaar is our AFL captain, and will probably play half his time in the VFL!
The only bloke to go in after one of the players was pushed in the goal post?
Yeah you’re right, I’d rather keep the status quo with someone who’s got a couple of investment properties under their belt.
 

Go_Roos!

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The only bloke to go in after one of the players was pushed in the goal post?
Yeah you’re right, I’d rather keep the status quo with someone who’s got a couple of investment properties under their belt.
You don't think Piggy as captain would be a little extreme?
 

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DesertRoo

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You don't think Piggy as captain would be a little extreme?
Piggy was your suggestion. I’m just stating that we don’t have any on field leaders. We need to fast track a new culture and it won’t happen from the current group.
 

Jesslc

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This is fundamentally wrong from my perspective.

I want Brad Scott fired because he's had 10 years of mediocrity without seriously pushing for a flag OR building & developing a talented list.

He and Joyce have spent the last 10 years in a "Nowhere Land", without any real commitment to building a strong foundation list of talented footballers from both a drafting, recruiting & development perspective. If Brad had come out last year and committed to an actual rebuild "we are going to focus on building a foundation" through drafting, trading & developing, yet we were still 17th - from my perspective, he wouldn't have the same level of irate supporter base, because people would understand that they will have to endure some short term pain for that long term gain.

Instead we have had 10 years of mediocrity without any real clear direction, minimal top draft picks, minimal finals appearances, minimal hope for the future.

*Disclaimer, please spare me the "We pushed when we made the prelim" comments - that team was never going to win a premiership.
Spare you the prelim comments? Why? Because youd have to explain how finishing 4th in a league of 18 teams two years in a row is somehow mediocrity. Im proud of those seasons and the effort that went into them but please continue critiquing from the couch even if the criticism is exageratted and innacurate. I think Brads time is up but the constant pages of whinging you have to get through is such a waste of time. Why dont we discuss why its not working out? Couldnt give a toss how irate the supporter base is. I care about the football.
 

Go_Roos!

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Piggy was your suggestion. I’m just stating that we don’t have any on field leaders. We need to fast track a new culture and it won’t happen from the current group.
I thought you said find the alpha in the under 21 group and make him captain, that'd be Piggy.
 

sbdan

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Have we heard anymore on what happened to Ahern? You don't work your arse off overcoming injuries like he has, start blitzing it like he did last year, get a full preseason in and then go to shit like he seems to have.

It can't be lack of endeavour, because he has it in spades to come back. It can't be lack of skill, because we know he has that. I just can't understand why he is struggling in the 2s.
 

shimaburnsgrieg

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The AFL is not a development league, the idea is to play your best team each week to win the football match.
This approach was fine to have in the 1970's and 1980's VFL where you had recruiting zones and a strong reserves competition feeding into 12 Victorian teams.

This approach is so outdated now in the drafting era/18 team competition that it is laughable that anyone still seriously puts it forward as an option for a team sitting at 2 and 7.
 

Go_Roos!

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This approach was fine to have in the 1970's and 1980's VFL where you had recruiting zones and a strong reserves competition feeding into 12 Victorian teams.

This approach is so outdated now in the drafting era/18 team competition that it is laughable that anyone still seriously puts it forward as an option for a team sitting at 2 and 7.
Which of the clubs doesn't pick their best team to win the football match each week?
 

shimaburnsgrieg

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Which of the clubs doesn't pick their best team to win the football match each week?
For clubs that are out of finals contention or in rebuild mode the important issue to get right is the balance between competing for the next match but also ensuring appropriate development for the youth on your list.

That 'balance' will change club by club depending where they are at in any year and depending what time it is in the season.

Any club that is 2 and 7 and playing a side with an average age of 26plus has the balance wrong.

Bard may think he has a strong team and everything is about to click - hence he prefers an older side.

Unfortunately he has been proven wrong - badly wrong - not only is it hurting us this year but its hurting the development of players like LDU, Ahern, Bailey et al which may hurt us medium term.
 

ferball

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It’s not about playing them all at once it’s about rotating them through the squad to give them exposure.

No one is saying drop all veterans and replace them with kids and have a team that is just kids.

It means that some of the veterans may have to rotate through the VFL or have a rest, to give exposure to a kid. The kid won’t have the output, but that game at the top level is more valuable than any hollow win with players that aren’t going to be part of your next premiership.

This means guys like LDU, Ahern, Scott, Watson, Walker, Hayden, McKay, Durdin, Taylor and even Crocker should get games at sometime during the year regardless if they might not be 100% reday.

But you wouldn’t have them all in the team at the same time. It may mean someone like a Higgins is rested for a week.
Believe it or not after the week before last i was thinking Higgo for Ahern or LDU would have been a good move last weekend. But i don't want to post it cos really its in the trade Cunners basket as far as good ideas go.
 

ferball

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That’s not correct. He had veterans he could have played that would have given him better output when these kids first came in.

He chose to go play those kids, give them exposure and clear out the deadwood.

Brad Scott instead of clearing the deadwood likes to add it to his list.

The Tyson trade is looking like a disaster the longer this year progresses. A position we had covered anyway, which made it even more puzzling.

If that trade alone didn’t tell you this guy thought we would be challenging then you just have blinkers on.

Time to move him on, develop what we have, clear the deadwood and go to the draft.
For the last few seasons we've cleaned out what we think is dead wood. Look at the young players who aren't on the list and were drafted since 2014/5.
 

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