Alan Richardson: where's the pressure?

Allan Shorty

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We are and always have been St.Kilda!
Bit hard copping lectures from supporters of a minnow club who had to sell their name and their collective bottoms as they can-rattled to survive, on the back of a Bradbury flag!

That's very very unkind. It's cruel. When you lot experience a flag you'll recognise that such comments stem from bitterness and envy. A flag will make you a better football follower and perhaps a better person. I know it has elevated me - I'm not quite a zen master but I have a lot more peace of mind. The flag did that.

North supporters undermine my theory somewhat. Despite some recent success, bitterness remains. I will meditate on it.
 

Ron The Bear

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Ross Lyon started playing youth in his last year at St. Kilda. Most of you are really really stupid.

Not really. Cumulative percentage of players used by age:

4XzOTQt.jpg


Some effort noted in Watters' second year, but he was really having a bet each-way with his state leaguers.

Richardson has come up too fast. More patience required.
 
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Ah nice twisting of the "facts " there mate....Geelong made a semi and pre lim 04/5 so and were but 10 seconds off another or pre lim in 05.thats pretty close to being "built" Wouldn't you think?
So that's 5 years till contending ,and we're obviously playing finals during that time

And wrong again on hawthornt they were still in a pre lim 2001 and going for broke.... their "rebuild" didn't really start till Clarke took over in 04 so that's 4 years in my book
I've tried to explain this on my board that the flag winning sides return to finals within 6 years

If we don't make finals this year then this rebuild, based on what previous premiership winning sides have done, has failed. If it doesn't fail then it's breaking new ground.

Saints fans don't want to hear it though. They can't handle the reality that the rebuild might not be a premiership winning one

It's the same stuff freo fans were doing on here in 2015 when they had that amazing start to the season and people were telling them unless Ross changed the game plan/strategy/started playing the kids more they weren't going to win it and the older players on their list would hit the wall in the back end of the season

How defensive some fans can get never ceases to amaze. When confronted with what is occurring they'll come up with all kinds of excuses and often get personal. Strange stuff.
 
Sep 21, 2002
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Not sure Richardson has much of a pulse, much less if he can coach or not.
Going nowhere fast.

I don't watch enough of St.Kilda to make a call of whether he can coach or not, but I see him in the media and I must say he doesn't really impress me all that much.
 

theprospect

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I don't watch enough of St.Kilda to make a call of whether he can coach or not, but I see him in the media and I must say he doesn't really impress me all that much.
Pretty sure he uses the exact same members video for every single loss explaining why said loss happened. I like him but he's so robotic and refuses to change anything. That needs to change if we're going to move forward
 
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That's very very unkind. It's cruel. When you lot experience a flag you'll recognise that such comments stem from bitterness and envy. A flag will make you a better football follower and perhaps a better person. I know it has elevated me - I'm not quite a zen master but I have a lot more peace of mind. The flag did that.

North supporters undermine my theory somewhat. Despite some recent success, bitterness remains. I will meditate on it.

When the Bulldogs won the flag last season, I visited your board to say well done and to also prepare you for what you had in front of you, as my club cops plenty from idiots from this forum. It seems winning a flag is the worst possible thing a club can do, especially in the eyes of supporters whose club hasn't won a flag for some considerable time. Many believe flags are won by luck, but they're won through many months/years of planning, hard work and sacrifice. Unfortunately, if you want to remain on this forum, petty jealousy is the one thing you need to endure because it's never going to go away.
 

Pinch Hitters

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Who cares how quickly Geelong, Hawthorn or Collingwood turned their lists around? For every one of these teams, football history is littered with many more of teams growing impatient and taking action that actually extends their time in the wilderness.

The idea that any team that does not reach success as quickly as these teams, is failing, is simplistic and ignores a number of other important factors. Not least of all the question of how serious a rebuild was required in each circumstance and the fact that it is mathematically improbable for every successful rebuild to succeed as quickly.

St Kilda's rebuild may well be flawed but pointing to Geelong, Hawthorn or Collingwood as proof is equally flawed. In my mind climbing from rock bottom in 2014 to be a serious finals contender in 2017 is a solid and timely turn around. Impatience is always the problem in these scenarios, imagine what the result would have been if Geelong had have blinked rather than stood firm when the collective wisdom was that Mark Thompson wasn't the man to take them forward when the Cats stumbled in 2006? Will the Saints be equally rewarded if they stay the course? Who knows, but Melbourne's sacking of Dean Bailey has shown us what can happen when you succumb to the urges that impatience brings.
 

Bazza97

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Making the finals this year would've probably been the expectation of most St Kilda fans and that goal is looking a little bit precarious with them positioned just outside the 8 and with a difficult fixture to come.
As disappointing as it would be for St Kilda to miss the finals, 2018 should be the year where the Saints are properly judged.

In early 2014, The Saints released a plan referred to as "the road to 2018" which included the aim of making the top 4 by 2018 and also to win a premiership by 2020. Looking at St Kilda atm, I think the original plan to make the top 4 next year is not the be all of or end all. Instead I think at the very least, they must make finals. Top 6 would be ideal, but the main thing for me is that 2018 should be the start of hopefully a sustained period of finals success for the Saints and top 4 in the coming years.

There have been some concerns raised regarding St Kilda, these include game day coaching, no plan b and a lack of a-grade or potential a-grade talent on the list just to name a few. I thought the Saints would look a little bit more convincing this year with their performances but they do have a positive W/L record atm.

Under Richardson, we have seen the development of some key players. Once Seb Ross got a clean run at it in 2016, we have seen him improve again this year and become a key player in the midfield, Jack Newnes has also improved over the past few years, Dylan Roberton has had a breakout year at HB and Jack Billings is starting to impact games more and living up to his talent as a junior.

The Saints do have an even spread of good quality b-grade players on their list and on all lines of the field but they do need more a-grade talent. Martin will probably stay at Richmond, but Kelly could realistically leave GWS and he would be my first priority for the Saints. He would complement the midfield nicely.

It would be helpful if Freeman can get some AFL exposure before the season ends. Gresham's ability up forward would be missed if he gets more midfield minutes but it would make him a more complete player and someone like Acres needs to utilise those glimpses of talent he shows by starting to impact games more consistently.

St Kilda do have some pretty decent draft currency this year, having Hawthorn's first round pick (pick 6) as well as their own first round draft pick (pick 9). They will get some quality talent regardless of whether it is acquired through a trade or in the draft, although getting Kelly is preferable or even another quality GWS youngster like Jacob Hopper for example.

Some players like Josh Bruce and Tim Membrey who had career best years in 2015 and 2016 respectively are pivotal to the Saints going forward and if they can return to their career best form it would go a long way to St Kilda making a charge to sustained finals appearances and a potential spot in the top 4. Paddy McCartin unfortunately has had a poor run with concussion and injury as has Hugh Goddard who were both regarded as important pieces to St Kilda's future in the key position stocks when they were drafted.

Armitage I thought would return to the sort of form he showed in 2015 but is struggling with a groin injury and he could be in danger of being put further down the pecking order if the Saints acquire someone like a Kelly or a Hopper or perhaps if Acres and Gresham get exposed to more midfield minutes also while Dunstan and Freeman are desperate to cement themselves in the lineup before this season finishes.

However, whatever happens this year, 2018 is when the Saints should be properly judged.
 
Making the finals this year would've probably been the expectation of most St Kilda fans and that goal is looking a little bit precarious with them positioned just outside the 8 and with a difficult fixture to come.
As disappointing as it would be for St Kilda to miss the finals, 2018 should be the year where the Saints are properly judged.

In early 2014, The Saints released a plan referred to as "the road to 2018" which included the aim of making the top 4 by 2018 and also to win a premiership by 2020. Looking at St Kilda atm, I think the original plan to make the top 4 next year is not the be all of or end all. Instead I think at the very least, they must make finals. Top 6 would be ideal, but the main thing for me is that 2018 should be the start of hopefully a sustained period of finals success for the Saints and top 4 in the coming years.

There have been some concerns raised regarding St Kilda, these include game day coaching, no plan b and a lack of a-grade or potential a-grade talent on the list just to name a few. I thought the Saints would look a little bit more convincing this year with their performances but they do have a positive W/L record atm.

Under Richardson, we have seen the development of some key players. Once Seb Ross got a clean run at it in 2016, we have seen him improve again this year and become a key player in the midfield, Jack Newnes has also improved over the past few years, Dylan Roberton has had a breakout year at HB and Jack Billings is starting to impact games more and living up to his talent as a junior.

The Saints do have an even spread of good quality b-grade players on their list and on all lines of the field but they do need more a-grade talent. Martin will probably stay at Richmond, but Kelly could realistically leave GWS and he would be my first priority for the Saints. He would complement the midfield nicely.

It would be helpful if Freeman can get some AFL exposure before the season ends. Gresham's ability up forward would be missed if he gets more midfield minutes but it would make him a more complete player and someone like Acres needs to utilise those glimpses of talent he shows by starting to impact games more consistently.

St Kilda do have some pretty decent draft currency this year, having Hawthorn's first round pick (pick 6) as well as their own first round draft pick (pick 9). They will get some quality talent regardless of whether it is acquired through a trade or in the draft, although getting Kelly is preferable or even another quality GWS youngster like Jacob Hopper for example.

Some players like Josh Bruce and Tim Membrey who had career best years in 2015 and 2016 respectively are pivotal to the Saints going forward and if they can return to their career best form it would go a long way to St Kilda making a charge to sustained finals appearances and a potential spot in the top 4. Paddy McCartin unfortunately has had a poor run with concussion and injury as has Hugh Goddard who were both regarded as important pieces to St Kilda's future in the key position stocks when they were drafted.

Armitage I thought would return to the sort of form he showed in 2015 but is struggling with a groin injury and he could be in danger of being put further down the pecking order if the Saints acquire someone like a Kelly or a Hopper or perhaps if Acres and Gresham get exposed to more midfield minutes also while Dunstan and Freeman are desperate to cement themselves in the lineup before this season finishes.

However, whatever happens this year, 2018 is when the Saints should be properly judged.
The saints won't die wondering if Richardson doesn't get a decent improvement bump from his side then they'll look for another coach

Just making the 8 won't be enough. He will need to comfortably make it and at a minimum be really competitive in the final
 

Bazza97

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The saints won't die wondering if Richardson doesn't get a decent improvement bump from his side then they'll look for another coach

Just making the 8 won't be enough. He will need to comfortably make it and at a minimum be really competitive in the final
Ideally yeah the Saints need to make the finals pretty convincingly next year. I'd be hoping for a home elimination final at least. Forgot to mention, that the Saints need to show an appetite for finals footy and if they can win one then that's a good sign.
 

fnerd

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I've tried to explain this on my board that the flag winning sides return to finals within 6 years

If we don't make finals this year then this rebuild, based on what previous premiership winning sides have done, has failed. If it doesn't fail then it's breaking new ground.

Saints fans don't want to hear it though. They can't handle the reality that the rebuild might not be a premiership winning one

It's the same stuff freo fans were doing on here in 2015 when they had that amazing start to the season and people were telling them unless Ross changed the game plan/strategy/started playing the kids more they weren't going to win it and the older players on their list would hit the wall in the back end of the season

How defensive some fans can get never ceases to amaze. When confronted with what is occurring they'll come up with all kinds of excuses and often get personal. Strange stuff.

Yeah I think a big part of the problem is when a club board throws out the "re build catch cry " fans all of a sudden(and more worryingly sometimes boards/club staff too) get caught up more in the idea rather than the actual purpose/outcome.
Especially if a few years pass and not much in 'actual' or definitive progress is made.
It then can lead,particularly in a club board/staff perspective as an excuse or get out of jail free card for genuine progress appraisal.

Now granted it's quite subjective depending on the particular clubs situation but like you said looking at the clubs that have rebuilt in the last 15 or so years who actually went on to win it or at least contend(which is the whole point of it all) most were playing finals by there 5th year,quite a few earlier.
I mean part of "rebuilding" is actually learning to play finals ,getting that experience,not simply hanging around the bottom stockpiling draft picks ready to simply launch 1 year into top 4 and contention.

What fans who claim 6+year rebuilds (before any finals action)fail to address is players shelf life's.
Say in Fremantle case there are some on the board who think we won't be or there's not much chance to be contending before 2021/2. Our some of our very best players are Fyfe/Walters/Neale/Bennell/hill..... by 2021they all be 29 and older and starting to decline before we're actually ready to contend consistently! ...which means they ll need or their output replacing...alas welcome to the the never ending rebuild(I can guarantee the club would be expecting to be playing finals by next year and getting serious by year 4)

It also doesn't take into account some of the support players or mid tier who's output,in all likelihood is on the decline too(note how many teams regular 22,non stars,players play good footy for 4/5 years then end up being relegated to depth/delisted??)

In the saints case they are coming from along way back granted but I genuinely believe their behind the eightball and as you said have history against them.... as has also been mentioned they do still lack some genuine elite players(especially in the midfield) and if free agency/trading fails them again they ll be relying on the draft and that alone DOES not cut it.
 

blitzer

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If they finish just outside the finals its far from game over for their list. Firstly many list builds have hiccups even the successful ones. eg Geelong's successful era still had 2006. Hawks won a flag won a flag in 2008 with a young team then it took them a few years to contend again.

Secondly 2 first rounders and the new bargaining agreement gives them some serious leverage to land a big fish and/or secure a number of really promising talents. Look at how much Richmond improved their list which many tipped to be bottom 6 in the space of one off-season. If I was their list manager - I'd be all about getting some AFL ready midfielders. The type of team that could go all out for the big fish midfielder if available and interested.

There is no reason why they can't be even better next year. Honestly even if they lost Riewoldt I reckon this is a list that's ready to move on (as good as he's been). Other than that they don't have any important players that are too old. I don't think Montagna 2017 will be hard to replace.

As for Alan Richardson himself as a coach - I honestly don't really have much of an opinion. Seems OK without really standing out. I won't pretend to have followed him closely.
 
Sep 8, 2008
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As annoyed as I was after the last game, we are still on track.

Last years was a much easier fixture and played the vfl bombers twice which makes the final results an anomaly, and also during their awful period.
If we are tracking for a similar result this season without a couple freebies then it's not all doom and gloom.
 

Ian Dunross

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Good coaches don't let their sides get pumped by 10 goals 2 weeks in a row when in the race for finals.

Hope he gets reviewed hard by the club end of season
 

theprospect

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Surely some of the onus falls on your playing group? If Riewoldt and Montana don't play well you seem to struggle badly. Leadership?
That's just a complete myth. Neither Montagna or Riewoldt would even be close to the top of our B&F this year, Montagna in particular has been quite ordinary as opposed to what you'd normally expect from a player of his quality. It's the whole team. You can always tell in the first 5 minutes that if the pressure is on, we generally play well but as soon as that drops, teams pounce.

As far as leadership goes, Geary is a great captain and neither Roo or Joey have changed the way they instruct players on and off the field. Seems to me they're just a young group who just seem to drop off badly when things aren't going their way. It's concerning, but not something that can't be fixed.
 
Apr 18, 2005
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That's just a complete myth. Neither Montagna or Riewoldt would even be close to the top of our B&F this year, Montagna in particular has been quite ordinary as opposed to what you'd normally expect from a player of his quality. It's the whole team. You can always tell in the first 5 minutes that if the pressure is on, we generally play well but as soon as that drops, teams pounce.

As far as leadership goes, Geary is a great captain and neither Roo or Joey have changed the way they instruct players on and off the field. Seems to me they're just a young group who just seem to drop off badly when things aren't going their way. It's concerning, but not something that can't be fixed.
Fair
 
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