Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Hearts to hearts]

I mean it's possible but I think that account includes a bit of mayo itself. It could simply be a matter of Hawthorn half-arses a report (or was it just a welfare check?) and passes it on to the AFL to fully arse, washing their hands of all responsibility.
Meanwhile the interviewees having laid their souls bare and probably expecting some response from the club similar to Collingwood and the Do Better report (in an alternative universe Kennett cops the McGuire treatment), become increasingly frustrated and go to the media. Rusty Jackson being an obvious choice.
The AFL of course * everything up, when in all likelihood the former players just wanted what their letter states - to be heard.

Well, yes - if I’ve spoken freely to an internal club investigation and then found out it was being handed to the AFL I wouldn’t be happy, wondering how they will bury it and/or misuse information for their own ends.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

I don't read it that way personally. I think everything they are saying as "we" relates only to them, though of course others may well concur completely.

Thats fair enough, I should point out that's not a take that is set in stone for me, but I think the vagueness could have been avoided if they didn't go for the emotive drama angle.

 

[Cool Kangas]

Can someone clarify something:

What would be a possible outcome from the HRC - like what would the claimants be seeking? - and then if that doesn’t work, what then happens in court? Does it come under jurisdiction of a civil matter?

 

[FlyHigh18]

I’m a bit tired of this whole klusterfk. Can someone just tell me if todays events improves or diminishes Clarkos chances of coming back?

 

[Cool Kangas]

I’m a bit tired of this whole klusterfk. Can someone just tell me if todays events improves or diminishes Clarkos chances of coming back?

I reckon diminishes unfortunately.

 

[DuckYeah]

I’m a bit tired of this whole klusterfk. Can someone just tell me if todays events improves or diminishes Clarkos chances of coming back?

I cant see anywhere, any of this suggests Clarkson is a racist. He’ll be back. This just needs to be sorted out.

 

[Supa_Nova]

I reckon diminishes unfortunately.

Our club is in a mighty fine pickle.

 

[mcnulty]

Our club is in a mighty fine pickle.

Nah, that’s our club. Your club will be just fine.

 

[blackshadow]

Well, yes - if I’ve spoken freely to an internal club investigation and then found out it was being handed to the AFL I wouldn’t be happy, wondering how they will bury it and/or misuse information for their own ends.

That’s another mark against Hawthorn/binmada. If they promised confidentiality but were bound to pass findings of misconduct to the AFL then they’ve made promises they can’t keep.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

Our club is in a mighty fine pickle.

I think perhaps the opposite.

Clarko now has an opportunity to be heard & to listen, so this potentially provides a way forward allowing him to have a focus on coaching.

 

[ferball]

Like everyone, this has been an eight month roller coaster.

When the news broke, I couldn’t finish the original article as I was so shocked.

A few months later with the Egan fraud stuff and other news, I then thought the whole thing was a type of shakedown.

The Clarko break, the hrc news and a few fine posts in this thread (mainly Kimbo ) has forced me to reevaluate a few things, including my own views on race and racism. On reflection, my views were a tad too narrow and there are different cultural interpretations of race and racism. This appears to be a case of cultural misunderstandings.

Really hope both sides telling their stories helps produce a harmonious resolution.

Good on you bro. That sort of thing is always worthy of respect.

 

[trooroo4life]

Can someone clarify something:

What would be a possible outcome from the HRC - like what would the claimants be seeking? - and then if that doesn’t work, what then happens in court? Does it come under jurisdiction of a civil matter?

From my reading of their statement, they are looking for the accused to acknowledge their wrong doing. So I’d imagine they’d want a public apology otherwise it would head to the federal courts.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

I’m a bit tired of this whole klusterfk. Can someone just tell me if todays events improves or diminishes Clarkos chances of coming back?

I just had my 6th property inspection in 3 months, 5 of which were government mandated for "safety" reasons, and today the smoke alarm guy moved an existing alarm a total of of 15cms.

The moral of the story is some tenant had a bad experience at some point, and now I have to pay with my time and the landlord is getting charged for it.

Who wins, only the self serving people that make up the rules as they go along.

This will be no different.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

I’m a bit tired of this whole klusterfk. Can someone just tell me if todays events improves or diminishes Clarkos chances of coming back?

Even that will be hotly debated, I think it diminishes his chances, not necessarily because he will be painted any more or less guilty in the press than he already is, but I feel like a lot of us underestimated the emotional toll his fallout with Hawthorn has taken, this was a club he was at for 16 years and won 4 flags with and would mean so much to him, and now his relationships with the club as well as with individuals have been irreversibly damaged, you dont just brush that off and bounce back and suddenly have the mental clarity to take on the task of shaping the worst team in the comp to be the best.
Not sure where we go from here.

 

[DuckYeah]

Help me understand here.

For example.

You sign player to a contract. Stipulates work place requirements and what player must meet in contract. Player says, I want to go home for half a season at a time. Club says, no, you are bound by a contract and must adhere to it. Player says nuh, I will not and you are not allowing me to go home.

Dont sign a contract and be an afl
Player? Is that the crux of it? Are we now going to have different contracta for non indigenous and indigenous players? Whats the go here?

 

[Farthers]

The fact that it's Cyril would be eating at Clarko I'd imagine.

 

[Cool Kangas]

From my reading of their statement, they are looking for the accused to acknowledge their wrong doing. So I’d imagine they’d want a public apology otherwise it would head to the federal courts.

So failing that they take it to court to get an apology? Surely seeking just an apology is not a thing for the courts? I’m finding all this a bit confusing.

 

[DuckYeah]

The fact that it's Cyril would be eating at Clarko I'd imagine.

Thats what I thought. He probably believed they were tight.

 

[Makeshift Park]

The whole story is now laid bare:
The accusers and their family were interviewed for Egan’s report. Behind the veil of anonymity, they expressed their views with the passion, colour a little bit of mayo and the impunity that anonymity affords.

Phil Egan (who by the way is accused of fraudulently obtaining hundreds of thousands of dollars from an aboriginal cooperative) authors the report, smells a pay day and leaks to the ABC, knowing that the AFL/ HFC will pay out big time rather than face the public assault of the deeply disturbing allegations in the report. Remember the leak was not to Fox Footy, Caro, Damo, Robbo or any of the football outlets - it was to well known indigenous advocate Rusty Jackson.

Jacko tells the families he’s going to write a story about the report - do they want to comment? Egan (unsurprisingly) thinks it’s a good idea and the players and families feel no choice but to ensure their stories are at least told as they want them to be. “Don’t worry, you’ll still be anonymous”.

The dung hits the fan and the accusers’ testimony is no longer truly anonymous and, in fact, it turns out to be potentially libellous. The AFL investigation begins and the families’ very capable AFL funded legal representative says “look folks, these accusations are pretty damning to the reputation of the accused. If there’s any mayo at all on this stuff, we’ve gotta dial it back.”

Meanwhile, the legal advisors of the accused tell Clarko and Co “if this is all blown up, tell ‘em to cough up the evidence and stand behind the accusations or p!ss off. We’re going to sue the pants of them.” What follows is 8 months of “liar, liar pants on fire”. Clarko snaps and Fagan writes his “come at me or fargg off” letter.

The AFL, having seen the evidence the accusers are willing to share and realising the parts that aren’t made up don’t amount to much suggest to the accusers that they can all wrap up the AFL chapter in a nice apologetic bow.

But the accusers now know they’re facing down the barrel of some ruinous litigation and have to defend themselves. The players and families are themselves at significant risk of being pursued for defamation.

This is now a Mexican standoff between the accused and the accusers, both armed with a threat of litigation. Like any such standoff, each is waiting for the other to crack and propose peace so they can get the outcome they want from the negotiation. If all the accusers wanted was to sit down and be heard, well all they had to do was friggin ask!

The HRC is a helpful forum for parties to be encouraged to lay down their arms. A few hundred thousand dollars from now, they’ll all emerge from a room and agree the whole thing was a big misunderstanding for which all parties are regretful, but the world better for our greater understanding.

Meanwhile, Phil Egan is this decade’s Stevie Dank who has take everyone for a ride, including those people he purported to help. May he burn in hell.

Mostly agree, except if Egan leaked the actual report to Jackson, it doesn’t make sense why his article didn’t quote from it at all.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

From my reading of their statement, they are looking for the accused to acknowledge their wrong doing. So I’d imagine they’d want a public apology otherwise it would head to the federal courts.

I read it as wanting an acknowledgment that there is another way to view these events that accounts for cultural safety. I see it as wanting to build an understanding and acceptance that well intentioned people still do things that result in harm, when they don’t take the time to view interactions through a cultural lens.

 

[DuckYeah]

I read it as wanting an acknowledgment that there is another way to view these events that accounts for cultural safety. I see it as wanting to build an understanding and acceptance that well intentioned people still do things that result in harm, when they don’t take the time to view interactions through a cultural lens.

Its still elite sport and highly paid elite sportsmen? Surely the line is a razors edge. Sacrifices is what makes success. Im ******* lost in all of this.

 

[justroyal]

Dont sign a contract and be an afl
Player? Is that the crux of it? Are we now going to have different contracta for non indigenous and indigenous players? Whats the go here?

Yeah, look that’s what my thoughts were as I read that so many of the people making the complaints felt so similarly. Like, ok, maybe this isn’t the right industry for you then?

Maybe it was wrong for the AFL and coaches to give them an opportunity to play AFL if they thought they were going to have ‘the courses of their lives’ changed.

Maybe Hawthorn got too overzealous trying to poach so many indigenous players that they hadn’t developed a good enough supportive framework at the time? I don’t know.

Again. Right now it seems like the abortion story is the one that holds the heaviest of weight. Which was flat out denied by Burt and ultimately needs to be tested.

God knows what everyone else is upset about

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I read it as wanting an acknowledgment that there is another way to view these events that accounts for cultural safety. I see it as wanting to build an understanding and acceptance that well intentioned people still do things that result in harm, when they don’t take the time to view interactions through a cultural lens.

Yes. I’m not sure either how this can go to court, or that anyone would want it to if the motivation is greater understanding and sensitivity.

 

[Kimbo]

Here's hoping the mediation process is one that supports genuine dialogue ('an exchange of meaning') and facilitates real listening to each other, including with a cultural sensitivity component. Nothing will be resolved without people sitting in the same room, seeing and hearing each other as fellow humans being whose lives and life experiences are worthy of respect ('the legitimate other'.)

Here's also hoping the whole process is expeditious - though I'm not holding my breath - because even if the above scenario unfolds, the longer it goes on before that happens, the more chronic stress, anxiety and/or depression can take hold. I'm thinking mainly of Clarko here, but presumably for others too.

p.s. I'd add that I wrote the first paragraph because, in my (limited) experience, mediation, in it's most simplistic form is defined simply as 'alternative dispute resolution' within the legal system and can, at worst, still have that legalistic (combative) taint.

 

[ajd9 roo]

That part I don't get is...
The letter from the indigenous players says that they just wanted to be heard by those that had so much influence on their lives.
Didn't they also refuse Clarko & Fagan to obtain copies of the their statements in the report for 8 months???