Alavi speaks

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Gavstar said:
I think anyone who knows anything at all about biochemistry/amino acid synthesis knows that Alavi's explanation is implausible.

Chip obviously has no idea of the questions he should have asked.

Fundamentally did he prepare dilute and prepare as per TB4?

What was the diluent? What was the pH? Did he add a stabilser (protein etc)

What information did he use to prepare the doses?

What was the purity of the supplied peptide?

Its concentration?

It's mass spec profile?

Was it synthesized or purified from culture (likely the former given safety concerns with latter)

You know basic information so they can set a sales price.

(if there is a batch number even the Chinese would keep such records).

Now why did ASADA make trip to China.
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He would know all of these things once Dank got the results from the testing AMIDOINGITRITE????
 
slashin_velvet said:
He would know all of these things once Dank got the results from the testing AMIDOINGITRITE????
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Have you ever wanted to bake a chocolate cake, put all the ingredients in for a chocolate cake, follow cooking instructions and it comes out a lamb roast?
 

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Gavstar said:
I think anyone who knows anything at all about biochemistry/amino acid synthesis knows that Alavi's explanation is implausible.

Chip obviously has no idea of the questions he should have asked.

Fundamentally did he prepare dilute and prepare as per TB4?

What was the diluent? What was the pH? Did he add a stabilser (protein etc)

What information did he use to prepare the doses?

What was the purity of the supplied peptide?

Its concentration?

It's mass spec profile?

Was it synthesized or purified from culture (likely the former given safety concerns with latter)

You know basic information so they can set a sales price.

(if there is a batch number even the Chinese would keep such records).

Now why did ASADA make trip to China.
Click to expand...


big deal
there is a massive gulf between all of that hocus pocus
and establishing that each and every one of those 34 players were administered a prohibited substance
I mean, if this is the very best that ASADA have, it's laughable
 
Gavstar said:
I think anyone who knows anything at all about biochemistry/amino acid synthesis knows that Alavi's explanation is implausible.

Chip obviously has no idea of the questions he should have asked.

Fundamentally did he prepare dilute and prepare as per TB4?

What was the diluent? What was the pH? Did he add a stabilser (protein etc)

What information did he use to prepare the doses?

What was the purity of the supplied peptide?

Its concentration?

It's mass spec profile?

Was it synthesized or purified from culture (likely the former given safety concerns with latter)

You know basic information so they can set a sales price.

(if there is a batch number even the Chinese would keep such records).

Now why did ASADA make trip to China.
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Chip had no intention whatsoever of going near the questions he should have asked. His job was to get the bullshit on the record.
 
The Alavi article only highlights further IMO that the club (read players) can still not be certain what was administered to them in this instance of injections. Which I believe is a breach of the WADA code. Question is, would Alavi have given this same information in his interviews with ASADA, and how would ASADA then use it as evidence at the hearings?
 
The GG said:
in keeping with the quality of this board
have I mentioned the bit about the HTB legal experts yet?
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GG complaining about quality...
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coryne said:
So some highlights from the article





So did he make a substance only for testing that the substance is what the substance is claimed to be? If he was testing what was in the batch then why were 26 vials made up, and not a subset of the protein. Hell if he just wanted the substance tested to confirm its identity then only a very small amount of the lyophilized powder would need to be sent off to the testing facility for analysis, of a couple of microlitres of the solution made, not 26 vials ........... If the substance was for "research purposes" and not for human use then why is this so? He compounds substances for human use as medications, so why was this batch different? Did he obtain TB4 which was for "research purposes" only thus wasn't at a quality appropriate for clinical use? Was he withholding clarification that it could be used in humans until its identity was confirmed? And if this is the case then why were 20 vials released to Dank for testing, and not a subset?


God as far as testing goes a simple SDS-PAGE gel could confirm this. TB4 has a molecular weight (size) of 4963.49 Da, TA1 has a MW of 3108 Da and Thymomodulin is a mixture of several proteins ranging is size from 1,000 to 10,000 Da. Getting a small sample of the protein and running it on a basic gel would confirm the size of the protein/s and give you a fair indication of what you are dealing with. There are even ELISA assays which can be used to identify TB4 ................ The concept that the identity could not be easily tested is RIDICULOUS !!!!!!!!!!





Is this statement in dispute? Does the have QC information from the lab in China to confirm that TB4 was obtained? Does said lab even created TA1. People need to realize that recombinant proteins are being produced here. It isn't like the two proteins are almost identical in structure and function, they are simply naturally derived from the same source (originally from a Thymus of animals) and share no sequence similarity with one another. It isn't like TB4 is produced by mixing two substances together and TA1 is created by mixing in a third substance, THEY ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT PROTEINS WITH ROUGHTLY A SIMILAR SIZE BUT TOTALLY DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS. It is like saying Vitamin A could be mixed up with Vitamin B because they are both vitamins. They are totally different compounds with different functions, and two different processes would be required to produce them.





So Dank wasn't intending to use this "not approved for human use" substance on the EFC players, but was intending to use it on private patients instead ???




WTF kind of testing was he going to have done on the proteins? If he wanted the proteins sequence determined (and remember, these are SMALL peptides being analyzed) then he wouldn't be doing any tests he doesn't routinely perform so why would the price be such a shock to him? If anything the small size of the peptide would mean that testing the substance would be cheaper than other compounds ............





Why would a professional compounding pharmacist use the wrong vials, mark the esky and not the vials and use the wrong type of vials? A 1st year research assistant would know the proper protocol for handling peptides, let alone an experienced compounding pharmacist.





Dank says it was Thymomodulin, tried to get backdated paperwork to confirm this (which Alavi signed) but now Alavi denies this?



There are sooooo many holes in these stories that it is hard to keep track, and anyone with a half decent knowledge of science could tear them to shreds.
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Outstanding quote Coryne. Much appreciate your technical insights for those of us trying to understand the underlying story.
 

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Blue DNA said:
Outstanding quote Coryne. Much appreciate your technical insights for those of us trying to understand the underlying story.
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Thanks Blue DNA. This is what frustrates me so much about this whole saga. The media/club/Dank etc can state things which sound plausible but if you know anything about the science involved then you start to understand how ridiculous some of the statements/claims are.
 
coryne said:
Thanks Blue DNA. This is what frustrates me so much about this whole saga. The media/club/Dank etc can state things which sound plausible but if you know anything about the science involved then you start to understand how ridiculous some of the statements/claims are.
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I don't claim to know much about science, however I like to think that I have a firm grasp on common sense. And I must admit the pieces of the story coming out of those involved at Essendon fails miserably on that scale.
 
I Rock said:
I don't claim to know much about science, however I like to think that I have a firm grasp on common sense. And I must admit the pieces of the story coming out of those involved at Essendon fails miserably on that scale.
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I with you about not knowing about science, but i am watching the big bang theory now,, learning heaps:D
 
The GG said:
big deal
there is a massive gulf between all of that hocus pocus
and establishing that each and every one of those 34 players were administered a prohibited substance
I mean, if this is the very best that ASADA have, it's laughable
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No it is the best BF can put forward, which part of ASADA have enough evidence, that we haven't seen yet, to issue SC notices. I am sick of all the crap on here about ASADA being incompetent, they have no evidence etc. All your spin will not help anyone in front on the independent tribunal which is where we will all find out what has happened. Sit tight it is coming..
 
Tiger08 said:
Alavi speaks:

View attachment 63306

As if he didn't know what it was... he's just trying to cover his own a**e.
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What Little and Essendon seem incapable of realising is that it is illegal to inject an unknown substance into a person. No "unknown" substance has been approved for human consumption. If a player was injected with an unknown substance then it contravenes S0 of the anti-doping code.

I think this is where ASADA could be heading. If the players say "I don't know" to an S2 substance then they incriminate themselves under S0.

All ASADA has to do is ask: "Where is the evidence that the substance you took is approved for human consumption?"

Catch 22. Snap. Bingo. Fat lady takes a bow.
 
Argy said:
What Little and Essendon seem incapable of realising is that it is illegal to inject an unknown substance into a person. No "unknown" substance has been approved for human consumption. If a player was injected with an unknown substance then it contravenes S0 of the anti-doping code.

I think this is where ASADA could be heading. If the players say "I don't know" to an S2 substance then they incriminate themselves under S0.

All ASADA has to do is ask: "Where is the evidence that the substance you took is approved for human consumption?"

Catch 22. Snap. Bingo. Fat lady takes a bow.
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34 injected players with unknown mexican substance. 34 SC notices. Many people have asserted that the mexican drug may be TB4, but they might have them regardless of what it was.
 
T Factor said:
No it is the best BF can put forward, which part of ASADA have enough evidence, that we haven't seen yet, to issue SC notices. I am sick of all the crap on here about ASADA being incompetent, they have no evidence etc. All your spin will not help anyone in front on the independent tribunal which is where we will all find out what has happened. Sit tight it is coming..
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which independent tribunal are you talking about mate?
what about a fair dinkum court
let's see how flash ASADA is when their abuse of process is opened up for all to see
 
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