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Society & Culture Ali vs Tyson

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The OBSTacle said:
Two differences.

1) Tysons technique was very different to Fraziers.
2) Tyson punched harder than Frazier.



IMO, Ali's jab couldn't keep a 22 year old Tyson out for 5 rounds. Tyson would get inside and K.O. Ali.

However, even exposed form is misleading considering Ali missed 3 years and 9 months of what should have been the prime years of his boxing career.

Here is a very interesting article from a boxing afficianado who took Tyson back in time and projected how his career would have gone matched up with the fighters of Alis time leading up to the first Sonny Liston fight:
Click to expand...

All fair points there :thumbsu:

That's what it comes down to for me - could Ali keep Tyson out for 5/6 rounds? If he can't, Tyson with the KO. If he could, Ali by KO or TKO.

Even though Ali's career is on a different level to Tyson's, I think the comparison is more than warranted. Tyson's prime was akin to a sniper killing everyone on instant. The Tyson that fought Holyfield was not the Tyson at his prime, and the Tyson that fought Lewis was almost a completely different person (he was so far past it it should be a moot point).
 
Power King said:
Even though Ali's career is on a different level to Tyson's, I think the comparison is more than warranted. Tyson's prime was akin to a sniper killing everyone on instant. The Tyson that fought Holyfield was not the Tyson at his prime, and the Tyson that fought Lewis was almost a completely different person (he was so far past it it should be a moot point).
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

I haven't seen a fighter that I think would beat Tyson up until the point where he beat Michael Spinks in 1988 at 22 years of age, and unified the heavyweight titles.

After 1988 Tyson imploded and I think Ali at any time in his career up until his last couple of fights, would have handled Mike Tyson from then on.

Therein lies the genius of Muhammad Ali. His ability to work on his strengths, accept his limitations and reinvent himself.
 
Those of you who think that it's a matter of Ali's jab holding Tyson at bay need to remember that Ali's is rated among the best in the history of boxing for footwork within the ring. Sure, Tyson could try to get close to Ali but with footwork like below he wouldn't have a chance to load up a punch.

[youtube]9iM6JHnA5Xo[/youtube]
 
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.

[youtube]JHnL7wqtQLs[/youtube]

You expect me to believe that Tyson couldn't catch Ali standing still once in 15 minutes? Tyson mastered the art of getting in close to men with greater reach.

Name a better exponent of the upper cut that Ali ever fought?
 

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The OBSTacle said:
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.
Under and in.

You expect me to believe that Tyson couldn't catch Ali standing still once in 15 minutes? Tyson mastered the art of getting in close to men with greater reach.
Click to expand...
Gee you're right, Ali would never have figured that out.

With a 22.5 cm longer reach, his ability to dodge a punch at distance (see the gif on the second post of this thread) and the footwork above do you think Ali would allow Tyson to get in a position to throw an uppercut?
 
**** young Tyson is fun to watch. What could have been.

Still give it to Ali because he'd be prepared and have a way to hold Tyson at bay. That said, you can always land a KO shot against great defense.
 
moistie said:
Gee you're right, Ali would never have figured that out.

With a 22.5 cm longer reach, his ability to dodge a punch at distance (see the gif on the second post of this thread) and the footwork above do you think Ali would allow Tyson to get in a position to throw an uppercut?
Click to expand...

Ali wouldn't get a choice in the matter in the first place!

How is Ali going to keep out a bloke out that is weaving below his waist line and continually pressing forward, only to find Tyson bobbing up 6-12 inches in front of him and throwing sledgehammers?

Tysons ability to utilise his lack of relative height in regards to most other heavyweights was one of his great advantages.
 
It's frustrating because we'll never get to see this hypothetical match-up. Debate is great, but to actually see the match-up would go a long way toward its outcome.

Same reason why Mayweather vs Pacquiao not eventuating will piss me off for life.
 
fascinating to have an Ali/Tyson comparison, but the OP was way of the mark with the
BERBA said:
Who is the greatest of all time?*
IN THEIR PRIME!
Click to expand...

Greatest of all time? Please, get a grip.

Oh, and how bout glass jaw T Mundine today coming out saying “Sonny Boy Williams” will be the next Ali… pmsl…. Punch drunk or what.
 
The OBSTacle said:
Absolutely.

I haven't seen a fighter that I think would beat Tyson up until the point where he beat Michael Spinks in 1988 at 22 years of age, and unified the heavyweight titles.
Click to expand...

The thing I remember most about the Spinks fight?

I was working in a gold mine at Agnew in W.A. The closest place with SkyChannel to watch it was Leonora about 150kms away. I knocked off a 12hr day shift, 4 of us piled into the Hilux and headed down the road to watch the fight. We walked into the pub, got a pot each and sat down about 30 seconds before the bell.

The bugger knocked him out inside the first round. Drank out pots, hopped back in the car and went back to Agnew.
 

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Tyson fought nobodies and demolished them. When he came up against decent boxers later in his career, they were too good for him. Maybe he should not have avoided fighting them earlier. He made a point of not fighting Holyfield and Lewis and when he finally did, his shortcomings were there to see.

Ali fought and beat Foreman, Liston, Frazier etc.... It was a golden era of boxing and one man dominated.

He would have annihilated Tyson.

As for the Cubans, great amateur boxers, but we will never know how well they would have gone as pro's. Stephenson did look a lot like Ali though !

Ali is my favourite sportsman of all time, so I admit to a degree of bias. It is not misplaced though.
 
There's a few top 10 lists

see here

10
Ezzard Charles

9
Evander Holyfield

8
Joe Walcott

7
George Foreman

6
Gene Tunney

5
Joe Frazier

4
Jack Dempsey

3
Joe Louis

2
Muhammad Ali

1
Rocky Marciano

see here

here's another

1. Muhammad Ali - Simply The Greatest, he fought every deserving contender in an era absolutely crammed with them. Also, earns points as the first man in history to win the title three times.

2. Jack Johnson - Way ahead of his time, he was a defensive master. Neither before or since has a heavyweight champion been so blessed in the ability of avoiding blows. Also had hurtful punching power.

3. Jack Dempsey - Revolutionised the sport with his savage fighting style. Also had an absolutely granite jaw.

4. Joe Louis - The longest reign in heavyweight history - an astonishing, never to be beaten, record 25 title defences. Pure one punch KO power, never wasted a shot.

5. Rocky Marciano - Retired unbeaten! Seemingly impossible to hurt. Also had endless stamina and vicious punching power.

6. George Foreman - The oldest heavyweight champion in history. Had freakish strength and thudding punch power. Also had more stamina in later career. Only ever stopped once, by the guy at the top of this list.

7. Larry Holmes - Vastly underrated, second only to Louis in number of title defences. Possibly possessed the finest jab in heavyweight history.

8. Sonny Liston - Had sheer brute force and power. Also a decent boxer, with a ramrod of a jab. Was at his peak in late 1950’s, an old man against Clay/Ali.

9. Joe Frazier - Owned probably the best left hook in heavyweight boxing. Also had amazing heart and an unlimited ability at taking punishment.

10. Evander Holyfield - Proved all his critics wrong when they said he wasn’t big enough. Used incredible guts and courage to defeat the huge Riddick Bowe. Also shocked the world by smashing Tyson. Finally, earns points for becoming the only four time heavyweight champ (although only twice in linear terms).

here's another

and more

THE TOP 20 HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Sonny Liston
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Mike Tyson
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Joe Frazier
13. Riddick Bowe
14. Evander Holyfield
15. Sam Langford
16. Gene Tunney
17. James J. Corbett
18. Ezzard Charles
19. Jersey Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

and more

still more

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Joe Louis
3) Larry Holmes
4) George Foreman
5) Rocky Marciano
6) Joe Frazier
7)Evander Holyfield
8) Jack Dempsey
9) Jack Johnson
10) Mike Tyson
11) Charles "Sonny" Liston
12) Ezzard Charles
13) Jersey Joe Walcott
14) John L. Sullivan
15) Floyd Patterson

still more

have a look

1) Muhammad Ali: 56 wins, 37 KO’s, 5 losses
2) Rocky Marciano: 49 wins, 43 KO’s, 0 losses
3) Jack Johnson: 71 wins, 40 KO’s, 13 losses
4) Joe Louis: 66 wins, 52 KO’s, 3 losses
5) George Foreman: 76 wins, 68 KO’s, 5 losses
6) Joe Frazier: 32 wins, 27 KO’s, 4 losses
7) Mike Tyson: 50 wins, 44 KO’s, 5 losses
8) Lennox Lewis: 41 wins, 32 KO’s, 2 losses
9) Larry Holmes: 69 wins, 44 KO’s, 6 losses
10) Floyd Patterson: 55 wins, 40 KO’s, 8 losses

have a look

last one

Bert Sugars list of the top 10 heavyweights ever

1. joe louis
2. muhammad ali
3. jack dempsey
4. jack johnson
5. rocky marciano
6. ezzard charles
7. gene tunney
8. george foreman
9. joe frazier
10. larry holmes

last one

There's plenty more out there
 
good to see Gene Tunney feature on those lists, people say Holmes is underated but i think Tunney may be the most underated of them all.
 

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JimDocker said:
Tyson fought nobodies and demolished them. When he came up against decent boxers later in his career, they were too good for him. Maybe he should not have avoided fighting them earlier. He made a point of not fighting Holyfield and Lewis and when he finally did, his shortcomings were there to see.

Ali fought and beat Foreman, Liston, Frazier etc.... It was a golden era of boxing and one man dominated.

He would have annihilated Tyson.

As for the Cubans, great amateur boxers, but we will never know how well they would have gone as pro's. Stephenson did look a lot like Ali though !

Ali is my favourite sportsman of all time, so I admit to a degree of bias. It is not misplaced though.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. :thumbsu:

Tyson beat up on cans for a couple of years, and is viewed as a destroyer by some because of it. Ali would've completely embarrassed him, every day of the week.
 

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