Alien/UFO Aliens

[Catfish Alley]

Yep, there's plenty of explanations that have been made or haven't but could be for UFOs. They connotations of 'UFO' has hijacked the actual meaning of the acronym.

What I think about with aliens is like, this common depiction, why do they resemble humans so much? Sure enough their planet probably has Earth-like conditions, but why don't they have four legs? Why are they resemblant to our height (I'm talking about them potentially being huge, 15 foot, or tiny, like a foot). And could other species exist in other dimensions? Maybe they communicate with something humans can't even think of as existent (the Black Swan example before is relevant) – why must they speak and hear like we do? Why do they have to have eyes, can they see things somehow in another way?

Do you get what I mean?

The bi-pedal model obviously works well on this planet. Perhaps they developed robotics with that in mind and sent it over a long time and through vast distances to explore because they themselves are not up to it yet. It's kind of like what we've been doing with Mars.

 

[van peebles]

But why do aliens have to have mastered space travel? It's entirely possible that they haven't even figured out how to leave their planet, or planets. You'd think that they would be curious, and would have come into contact with us to learn more about another species.

every ancient civilisation speaks of gods coming in fire dragons from the sky
they always point out thier kings were of a different breed.
a tribe in the middle of africa worships the doggstar,and tells anthropologists our star is between orions belt,later discovered to be an unknown star?
thoughtfull

 

[grizzlym]

every ancient civilisation speaks of gods coming in fire dragons from the sky
they always point out thier kings were of a different breed.
a tribe in the middle of africa worships the doggstar,and tells anthropologists our star is between orions belt,later discovered to be an unknown star?
thoughtfull

My father in-law researched a piece on the Dogon tribe in Africa.

Basically they have an elaborate creation myth that has been passed down for many years.

it involves a variety of weird rituals, including people dressed in suits made from reeds.

Plus it talks of being created from a star in Sirius. Only problem is that star was completely invisible to the naked eye - they could not have known of its existence.

My memory is a bit hazy here, but I also think their stories describe aspects of the star system - binary - and other details.

There's been some serious anthropological studies done on there people re these myths. And some other more dubious ones too.

Remember Sirius was also sacred to the Egyptians. Later expanded by Bauvel, I think.

Can't vouch for the quality of this video, but it probably gives yo the top line:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery

The Sirius Mystery is a book by Robert K. G. Temple first published by St. Martin's Press in 1976. It presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people of Mali, in west Africa, preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star-system.[1]
These beings, who are hypothesized to have taught the arts of civilization to humans, are claimed in the book to have originated the systems of the Pharaohs of Egypt, the mythology of Greek civilization, and the Epic of Gilgamesh, among other things. Temple's theory was heavily based on his interpretation of the work of ethnographers Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. A substantial bulk of The Sirius Mystery consists of comparative linguistic and mythological scholarship, pointing out resemblances among Dogon, Egyptian and Sumerian beliefs and symbols. Greek and Arab myths and words are considered to a lesser extent.

 

[Chameleon75]

People have always reached to mysticism to explain things that exceeds their knowledge.

Pre-historic - animism
ancients - sharmanism and ancestor worship
Early classical - polytheism
late classical to modern - monotheism
current - ufology

ufo/alien encounters = neo mythology

The scientific view is that we're yet to encounter other life but it is possible/probable, that is a far cry from aliens being amoung us which is more an article of faith, science is cherry picked to suit, quoted when it suits but when it doesn't even fundimental laws of physics are explained away. Has a more in common with animism than science, evolution coming full circle. Even the hypothesis that aliens are here but theres no evidence because of a government conspiracy has a theological element to it, bit like christ vs the antichrist, aliens vs the anti alien (government).

 

[grizzlym]

People have always reached to mysticism to explain things that exceeds their knowledge.

Pre-historic - animism
ancients - sharmanism and ancestor worship
Early classical - polytheism
late classical to modern - monotheism
current - ufology

ufo/alien encounters = neo mythology

The scientific view is that we're yet to encounter other life but it is possible/probable, that is a far cry from aliens being amoung us which is more an article of faith, science is cherry picked to suit, quoted when it suits but when it doesn't even fundimental laws of physics are explained away. Has a more in common with animism than science, evolution coming full circle. Even the hypothesis that aliens are here but theres no evidence because of a government conspiracy has a theological element to it, bit like christ vs the antichrist, aliens vs the anti alien (government).

Oh yes, there are plenty of people who say they're not religious but in the next breath carry on about space races - one belief system of the unknown is being replaced by another.

However, this doesn't mean that they're aren't UFOs out there. It's just interesting to watch the need it fills for some people, especially as a religion replacement.

 

[little graham]

every ancient civilisation speaks of gods coming in fire dragons from the sky
they always point out thier kings were of a different breed.
a tribe in the middle of africa worships the doggstar,and tells anthropologists our star is between orions belt,later discovered to be an unknown star?
thoughtfull

Christianity marred a lot of that history being taught, didn't it

 

[grizzlym]

People have always reached to mysticism to explain things that exceeds their knowledge.

Pre-historic - animism
ancients - sharmanism and ancestor worship
Early classical - polytheism
late classical to modern - monotheism
current - ufology

ufo/alien encounters = neo mythology

The scientific view is that we're yet to encounter other life but it is possible/probable, that is a far cry from aliens being amoung us which is more an article of faith, science is cherry picked to suit, quoted when it suits but when it doesn't even fundimental laws of physics are explained away. Has a more in common with animism than science, evolution coming full circle. Even the hypothesis that aliens are here but theres no evidence because of a government conspiracy has a theological element to it, bit like christ vs the antichrist, aliens vs the anti alien (government).

I actually find it interesting that the 'new space religion' (largely) is centered on god-like beings who aren't in our image. The reverse of the normal religious view.

 

[Chameleon75]

Oh yes, there are plenty of people who say they're not religious but in the next breath carry on about space races - one belief system of the unknown is being replaced by another.

However, this doesn't mean that they're aren't UFOs out there. It's just interesting to watch the need it fills for some people, especially as a religion replacement.

quantum mechanics will tell you that everything that can exist will exist. But as hawkins has stated before evolution to intelligence is not the common path but rare one, its likely that single cell organisms will be common but more complex life forms are rare, intelligent life forms rarer again, and advanced intelligence rarer still. Theres also the issue of the extent of time a life form has to develop its finite, our planet is close to the end and we have had some lucky breaks. If it wasnt for a meteor impact we wont be here, if the magnetic field reversed as was due 800000 years ago life wouldve been reset. Hawkins theorises that if we would find other inteligent life its likely to be in the forms of ruins from a planet long since dead. The odds of us both existing in the same time frame is rare. Seti has scanned the skys for 60 years to a distance of 1000 light years they did get one intelligent message, but worked out it was the microwave from the tea room. If there is a civilisation its unlikely they are visiting, as einstein theory of relativity has a speed limit of the speed of light.

 

[Chameleon75]

I actually find it interesting that the 'new space religion' (largely) is centered on god-like beings who aren't in our image. The reverse of the normal religious view.

not really though, still humanoid like ganesh, egyptian and greek mythology was littered with humanoid / animal gods, so aliens are humaniod/reptilian beings supposedly.

 

[grizzlym]

quantum mechanics will tell you that everything that can exist will exist. But as hawkins has stated before evolution to intelligence is not the common path but rare one, its likely that single cell organisms will be common but more complex life forms are rare, intelligent life forms rarer again, and advanced intelligence rarer still. Theres also the issue of the extent of time a life form has to develop its finite, our planet is close to the end and we have had some lucky breaks. If it wasnt for a meteor impact we wont be here, if the magnetic field reversed as was due 800000 years ago life wouldve been reset. Hawkins theorises that if we would find other inteligent life its likely to be in the forms of ruins from a planet long since dead. The odds of us both existing in the same time frame is rare. Seti has scanned the skys for 60 years to a distance of 1000 light years they did get one intelligent message, but worked out it was the microwave from the tea room. If there is a civilisation its unlikely they are visiting, as einstein theory of relativity has a speed limit of the speed of light.

They have never being able to explain the 'wow' message. And for a lot of those years they were only looking for the one thing.

Paul Davies actually has something interesting to say on the matter: a new lifeform might be so alien we mightn't recognize it as life.

 

[grizzlym]

not really though, still humanoid like ganesh, egyptian and greek mythology was littered with humanoid / animal gods, so aliens are humaniod/reptilian beings supposedly.

By that I mean of the last 3,000 years or so. We've reversed western religion!

 

[Chameleon75]

They have never being able to explain the 'wow' message. And for a lot of those years they were only looking for the one thing.

Paul Davies actually has something interesting to say on the matter: a new lifeform might be so alien we mightn't recognize it as life.

I just hope they still have boobs, dont know if I want to know an alien that have made boobs obsolete.

 

[little graham]

Still think this is the best hypothesis

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Should we have an Ancient Astronaut theory mega thread, grizzlym?

I'm keen.

 

[grizzlym]

Should we have an Ancient Astronaut theory mega thread, grizzlym?

I'm keen.

Start it up. I'll move the relevant posts.

 

[Chameleon75]

I actually find it interesting that the 'new space religion' (largely) is centered on god-like beings who aren't in our image. The reverse of the normal religious view.

reminds me a bit about the story behind frankensteins monster, how the author witnessed a demonstration of the human nervous system when a cadaver was hooked up to an electrical source and made to move. The story is about the anxiety around medical research and playing 'god', ment as a warning.

The alien abduction senario fits in with that, we live in an age where human cloning is making people uneasy, extrapolated further the ufo phenomenon gained ground when people were nervous about death raining down on them from the skys, intercontinental missiles.

So are aliens not created in our image? It might just be that their image is what we fear of ourselves, represent the monster within.

 

[grizzlym]

reminds me a bit about the story behind frankensteins monster, how the author witnessed a demonstration of the human nervous system when a cadaver was hooked up to an electrical source and made to move. The story is about the anxiety around medical research and playing 'god', ment as a warning.

The alien abduction senario fits in with that, we live in an age where human cloning is making people uneasy, extrapolated further the ufo phenomenon gained ground when people were nervous about death raining down on them from the skys, intercontinental missiles.

So are aliens not created in our image? It might just be that their image is what we fear of ourselves, represent the monster within.

I think the way some people report, describe and even believe alien lifeforms to be is a mirror on current day fashions, anxieties, dreams and all that stuff.

We kind of project, even anthropomorphise them, and they are always a projection (reflecting the above) of something just beyond our current time. Something that almost fits for the current day, but doesn;t quite fit.

Like the mystery airships of the 1880-1890s, which were seen across the world but mostly in the US. Many Ufologists regard them as UFOs but their description was influenced by the time.

However, what's interesting is they were variously described as being like airship, complete with anchors and the like. Voices could be heard etc. Point being mankind was gearing up for a great technological and industrial phase - flight, cars, machines of all sorts. The descriptions of these airships reflected those hopes, visions, anxieties.

I fear, however, I am going off topic now.

 

[grizzlym]

There is a great book on exactly this area. It's kind of sociology/cultural theory/ufology all mixed into one. Can't remember the name though.

 

[Ghostwriter]

If ufo's landed here centuries ago and had sex with humans, surely their radio technology is strong enough now that we would be able to hear their communication, doesn't seem right to me, where are the crashed ufo's, the unsuccesful missions? and don't give me the 100 percent success rate of the Apollo missions as proof, surely there would be an 'Ark' somewhere, give me my telescope any day staring into the night sky hoping, waiting...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If ufo's landed here centuries ago and had sex with humans, surely their radio technology is strong enough now that we would be able to hear their communication, doesn't seem right to me, where are the crashed ufo's, the unsuccessful missions? and don't give me the 100 percent success rate of the Apollo missions as proof, surely there would be an 'Ark' somewhere, give me my telescope any day staring into the night sky hoping, waiting...

Someone else posted this elsewhere, but there's a 2% difference in the DNA between a human and chimp.

To a chimp, banging a rock against a hollow limb is a damn fine way to communicate.

If there's another race of beings out there with 2% difference, that could mean there are at an extraordinary level of intelligence above what we understand. Maybe our 'radio waves' are as uncivilised to other races as banging a rock on a limb is to us.

 

[grizzlym]

If ufo's landed here centuries ago and had sex with humans, surely their radio technology is strong enough now that we would be able to hear their communication, doesn't seem right to me, where are the crashed ufo's, the unsuccesful missions? and don't give me the 100 percent success rate of the Apollo missions as proof, surely there would be an 'Ark' somewhere, give me my telescope any day staring into the night sky hoping, waiting...

Why would they necessarily have/use radios?

 

[grizzlym]

They could, to continue this thought experiment, be 8-limbed reptiles with completely different DNA to our ancestors.

They could simply have manipulated DNA with some sort of gene therapy rather than make sweet love to our ancestral grandmothers.

Point being, they could have helped us along without making us remotely like themselves.

 

[Ghostwriter]

Why would they necessarily have/use radios?

It could be pay tv and we just haven't paid the subscription.

 

[grizzlym]

It could be pay tv and we just haven't paid the subscription.

They might use Mini Discs still.

 

[Ghostwriter]

They might use Mini Discs still.

Maybe they flew out here with commodore 64's as the cpu, silicon valley could be run by aliens.