Alien/UFO Aliens

[Taylor]

2. I have no idea...i honestly dont know...but if thats the best we have I need to have more meat on the bone before I start entertaining the idea we are not unique...which brings me back to looking at our own backyard it brings me to another question what makes us so unique on Earth....? Out of the billions of species here on Earth why are we the only ones who have developed to a level of conciousnous that dwarfs the next smartest species.

That is only based off a system where human kind is put at the top and then all are graded against it. As in we have created a standard that validates our position as the peak lifeform on the planet. Thinking as we do, performing the same mental acrobatics but not anything we are not able to do.

Our world as defined by the senses we posses. Everything is expressed as a measure of what we know and that limits our perspective.

We would be living with energy based lifeforms, gas bubble life forms that are watching us thinking we are very simple.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Something is not faith, just cause science doesn't understand it. Ie. life started somehow. Fact, not faith.

No the faith comes in when we dont understand how we were created to believe that the something we have no idea about just occurs in the universe...

Thats faith

 

[CountryRace]

No the faith comes in when we dont understand how we were created to believe that the something we have no idea about just occurs in the universe...

Thats faith

It's not faith to think life started itself, or god did it, or option three. That is a fact. The proof is we are alive currently. Not understanding something means we don't understand it.

2. I have no idea...i honestly dont know...but if thats the best we have I need to have more meat on the bone before I start entertaining the idea we are not unique...which brings me back to looking at our own backyard it brings me to another question what makes us so unique on Earth....? Out of the billions of species here on Earth why are we the only ones who have developed to a level of conciousnous that dwarfs the next smartest species.

But if your looking for an alternative answer... is a book thats lasted 2000 years with ability to control billions of people anymore of statistical evidence that god created the Earth

3. As i said its not evidence just reasoning.. If science doesnt grasp the idea of how life is formed ....how can it even begin to fathom life on other planets....how does it even begin to make equations to the probability of life...do I start at A skip B to get to C.....its faith not science ...if you have that faith i wont argue.

4. I have no alternative which is why i keep searching for answers...and question everything put in front of me...

but from all the theories they all require an ounce of luck ...an ounce of magic...or more popular a touch of god

god as in creating time or life or universe, I dot necessarily mean a Christian/bible version

 

[TheKanga]

I dont really want argue about life on other planets but here is my reasoning why I dont believe...

1. We dont know how life began here on Earth.

how are supposed to know for sure if we dont even know what happened in our own backyard?
How can we say alien life exists if we dont know how it began
every equation of the probabilty of life is flawed for this very reason alone...

how can say life is a given because of this

2. The drake equation is flawed

How can equation predict the ability that life forms? ...it doesnt...

high probabilty of earth like planets =/= life....i cant believe how this equation is so accepted in the scientific community let alone in beliefs of such things.
This is the best we can come up with...this is it...our readoning for other life existing...

Sorry i personally need more than this to be convinced

3. In experements scientist cant create life that has happened here on Earth.

in a controlled in environments ...different extremities....life doesnt create itself....

4. The science law....you cant create something from nothing. My main one

this is why the big bang theory is so flawed.....this is why the science theories behind life are just theories...

You can have 1000's of exact copies of our earth in the goldilocks region scattered through the universe..they all can have water air food etc..they can have our peferct sun. They can have our perfect moon...they can have Jupiter protecting them....everything needed to harbour life.
but that "something" that created life may never ever occur on any of those planets...whether you believe that "something" is a meteorite ..or the hand of a god...or just some fluke coincidence....we just dont know what it is but whatever it is it seems like a long shot.


this is by no means evidence....just my reasoning.

1. Scientists have a fair idea, we know that on terrestrial planets where there is water and sunlight you are mostly likely to see something develop over time.
Like I said before scientists have proved that the stuff that life as we know needs to flourish is in space (on asteroids, meteors & comets).
How do you think life began? It seems to me you are talking about some almighty creator?

2. I would counter that science does deal with probabilities and statistics, our era are the pioneers of space exploration and we have to start somewhere.
Given the amount of Earth like worlds (billions in our galaxy alone) that scientists have proved are in the habitable area of it's star it's very logical to say it's likely life has developed on many of those worlds.
I think there is plenty of scientific reasoning out there as to why alien life is likely.
I haven't seen any decent scientific reasoning that would convince me we are alone in the universe.

3. Doesn't mean shit

4. I don't understand that reasoning, there is nothing scientific about what you are saying.
Why does it seem like a long shot? Are you religious?

 

[TheKanga]

No the faith comes in when we dont understand how we were created to believe that the something we have no idea about just occurs in the universe...

Thats faith

But like country said, life does exist, we exist as all the other lifeforms on this planet FACT.
If you say it's faith to believe in aliens then it is also faith to not believe the same life would occur elsewhere in the universe.
We can't travel to Europa or the nearest exoplanet and check yet, but it would be faith if you were travelling the universe on a mission to prove there is nothing out there.

 

[Taylor]

Can we replicate amino acid creation with certain chemicals and lightning etc?

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Whether you believe in god or alien life...

As of now our knowledge in both subjects cannot be concluded as fact...there is a leap of faith that is required to believe in either subject. Otherwise there would no conjecture on either subjects...


I am only using religous topics to try and get my point across so you may see it no matter what side of the fence you sit...i am not debating religion

I will try and get to your quotes i am going to get lunch and some fresh air...i appreciate trying the discussion...nice and civil.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

1. Scientists have a fair idea, we know that on terrestrial planets where there is water and sunlight you are mostly likely to see something develop over time.
Like I said before scientists have proved that the stuff that life as we know needs to flourish is in space (on asteroids, meteors & comets).
How do you think life began? It seems to me you are talking about some almighty creator?

2. I would counter that science does deal with probabilities and statistics, our era are the pioneers of space exploration and we have to start somewhere.
Given the amount of Earth like worlds (billions in our galaxy alone) that scientists have proved are in the habitable area of it's star it's very logical to say it's likely life has developed on many of those worlds.
I think there is plenty of scientific reasoning out there as to why alien life is likely.
I haven't seen any decent scientific reasoning that would convince me we are alone in the universe.

3. Doesn't mean shit

4. I don't understand that reasoning, there is nothing scientific about what you are saying.


Why does it seem like a long shot? Are you religious?

1. Scientist have NO idea how life began, begins or is created....None....all test they have done shows that simple sunlight and water does not create life....i am guessing life can probably flourish and adapt to live in those conditions but it just doesnt appear out of thin air. If you dont believe me a simple google will tell you this....

2. Its an equation .....an equation that will become obsolete and change as science progresses..i believe it may already have but i could be wrong..this alone should let you know how it cannot be used as the be all and end all ....... its also an equation that doesnt take it account how life began here ....because it cant....but its the strongest reasoning for alien life that we have. ...i would expect better than this for a belief change personally.

3.as I said before I have no proof just reasoning....I think that as it stands science tells us life doesnt create itself is pretty good reason to question alien life....no matter how many earth like planets are out there. Its basically telling us that more is needed than earth like planets

4. Its a summary of all my reasons.... something doesnt begin with nothing....fact. ...

the big bang theory -requires something beginning from nothing
Drake equation- requires something beginning from nothing.

They require an ounce of luck or an ounce of magic or the hand of god for it to work.....



I think i have come forward with my reasons please explain your reasons for life being absolute in the universe

 

[CountryRace]

Your definition of the word faith upsets me

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Your definition of the word faith upsets me

I guess you are right believing aliens is not a religion....

Its the only word I have to describe it...as I cant distinguish believing in a diety with no proof and believing in alien life with no proof.

All you both have is reasons...thats it.

And before you say i have faith in nothing existing...its hard to faith in an negative...or actually not knowing.

Example telling an athiest he has faith in no god.

 

[Gibbke]

Don't want to insult anyone who believes in the Good Book, but I personally discount it from any thoughts about the development of life on earth and elsewhere. A book written by ancient goat farmers who were known to take drugs, over hundreds of years with pages lost and rediscovered and then stickytaped back together, all to be edited and translated several times until we arrive at the version we know as the King James which was the version the church and state found most likeable - which then contradicts every other major religious work on the planet, let alone chapters within itself...dunno, just doesn't suggest scientific validity. Which makes Hawking's A Brief History Of Time a little frustrating because he seems to go out of his way to appease those who would scream "heretic" at his 1960's-80's research...

While the numbers on their own are mind-boggling when referring to the universe, as ratios or percentages they become much simpler. Certain elements have certain attractions with certain other elements, and they repel others. The structure of DNA is humungously complex, but still unravellable...they're about halfway through, they say. Right there is not only a reason why no one has recreated life as yet in a lab, but also a quantifiable number of chemical combinations to create it. But if you compare the two (the combos required to create DNA and the number of places it could form in the universe), you get trillions v trillions...so surely, aside from the known place where it happened, there has to be decent odds on it happening somewhere else...you only need one microbe...!

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Here ya go guys...

This ones for you..http://mobile.news.com.au/technolog...roject-blue-book/story-fnjwlcze-1227193394643

 

[TheKanga]

1. Scientist have NO idea how life began, begins or is created....None....all test they have done shows that simple sunlight and water does not create life....i am guessing life can probably flourish and adapt to live in those conditions but it just doesnt appear out of thin air. If you dont believe me a simple google will tell you this....

2. Its an equation .....an equation that will become obsolete and change as science progresses..i believe it may already have but i could be wrong..this alone should let you know how it cannot be used as the be all and end all ....... its also an equation that doesnt take it account how life began here ....because it cant....but its the strongest reasoning for alien life that we have. ...i would expect better than this for a belief change personally.

3.as I said before I have no proof just reasoning....I think that as it stands science tells us life doesnt create itself is pretty good reason to question alien life....no matter how many earth like planets are out there. Its basically telling us that more is needed than earth like planets

4. Its a summary of all my reasons.... something doesnt begin with nothing....fact. ...

the big bang theory -requires something beginning from nothing
Drake equation- requires something beginning from nothing.

They require an ounce of luck or an ounce of magic or the hand of god for it to work.....



I think i have come forward with my reasons please explain your reasons for life being absolute in the universe

1. Maybe so but that doesn't explain why this so called ''fluke'' happened here of all the other planets.

2. Science has discovered meteors could seed planets with life,

the equation suggest trillions of worlds could then have the right conditions for it develop based on what we know of Earth, so unless our
existance is a lie the equation is very relevant and much better data than non believers can come up with.

3. If more is needed maybe it's a few thousands years of meteor strikes needed to kick start life.
Maybe space is like a fertile womb and planets are the eggs.

4. I can't wrap my head around if there was something before the big bang or if a god exists where did it come from.
Thats beyond human comprehension atm


You do need faith though, what if you embarked on a journey and landed on a habitable planet you would need faith to believe even a microbe or insect couldn't exist there. You would be shitting yourself while digging in the soil.

I've already said why i believe and i'm quite confident lifes out there.

 

[TheKanga]

Don't want to insult anyone who believes in the Good Book, but I personally discount it from any thoughts about the development of life on earth and elsewhere. A book written by ancient goat farmers who were known to take drugs, over hundreds of years with pages lost and rediscovered and then stickytaped back together, all to be edited and translated several times until we arrive at the version we know as the King James which was the version the church and state found most likeable - which then contradicts every other major religious work on the planet, let alone chapters within itself...dunno, just doesn't suggest scientific validity. Which makes Hawking's A Brief History Of Time a little frustrating because he seems to go out of his way to appease those who would scream "heretic" at his 1960's-80's research...

While the numbers on their own are mind-boggling when referring to the universe, as ratios or percentages they become much simpler. Certain elements have certain attractions with certain other elements, and they repel others. The structure of DNA is humungously complex, but still unravellable...they're about halfway through, they say. Right there is not only a reason why no one has recreated life as yet in a lab, but also a quantifiable number of chemical combinations to create it. But if you compare the two (the combos required to create DNA and the number of places it could form in the universe), you get trillions v trillions...so surely, aside from the known place where it happened, there has to be decent odds on it happening somewhere else...you only need one microbe...!

Exactly, also so many religions in this world how can they all be correct?
There alreadly ample evidence of ancient life on Mars and current microbial life.

 

[Duritz]

BIG MATTY WHITE let's look at it this way:

1. Intelligent life exists on planet earth. We know this. How do we know this? Because we are here. We are alive. Therefore, life exists. Indisputable.

2. If intelligent life exists on planet earth, then it has a probability of existing on a planet. Why? Because life exists on planet earth, therefore life may exist on other planets. The probability of life existing = the likelihood of the conditions required to create intelligent life / the sum of the likelihood of all possible conditions. Indisputable.

3. We do not know what the answer to #2 is, but we know there is an answer to it. Indisputable.

4. No matter how small the answer to #2 is, when you multiply it by the number of planets out there, it will equal at least millions of planets that have developed intelligent life.

It exists. The only question is have we encountered it, and will we. Disputing the above is ridiculous.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

BIG MATTY WHITE let's look at it this way:

1. Intelligent life exists on planet earth. We know this. How do we know this? Because we are here. We are alive. Therefore, life exists. Indisputable.

2. If intelligent life exists on planet earth, then it has a probability of existing on a planet. Why? Because life exists on planet earth, therefore life may exist on other planets. The probability of life existing = the likelihood of the conditions required to create intelligent life / the sum of the likelihood of all possible conditions. Indisputable.

3. We do not know what the answer to #2 is, but we know there is an answer to it. Indisputable.

4. No matter how small the answer to #2 is, when you multiply it by the number of planets out there, it will equal at least millions of planets that have developed intelligent life.

It exists. The only question is have we encountered it, and will we. Disputing the above is ridiculous.

Duritz i didnt give you proof of anything...just reasons why I have come to my conclusion...

As i see it because we exist therefore aliens exist and the drake equation are yours....

Alien life is at best is probable ...not fact....no matter how much you scream it

I am not going to argue your opinion and beliefs......

 

[Duritz]

Duritz i didnt give you proof of anything...just reasons why I have come to my conclusion...

As i see it because we exist therefore aliens exist and the drake equation are yours....

Alien life is at best is probable ...not fact....no matter how much you scream it

I am not going to argue your opinion and beliefs......

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Duritz...why are you on here arguing with me...

You should use your powers for good and tell the scientific community that aliens are fact you have all the evidence and proof needed.

Science books will be re written schools will be named after you duritz and it all started here on bigfooty

Where you when duritz discovered aliens were fact and real...will ring through dinner conversations

 

[Duritz]

Duritz...why are you on here arguing with me...

You should use your powers for good and tell the scientific community that aliens are fact you have all the evidence and proof needed.

Science books will be re written schools will be named after you duritz and it all started here on bigfooty

Where you when duritz discovered aliens were fact and real...will ring through dinner conversations

Sarcasm. Refuge of the defeated.

 

[TheKanga]

Like you said earlier maybe this forum isn't for you.
I can't respect you're viewpoint because it seems so arrogant/ignorant.
You have been glazing over what science says because you just want to believe we are alone.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Like you said earlier maybe this forum isn't for you.
I can't respect you're viewpoint because it seems so arrogant/ignorant.
You have been glazing over what science says because you just want to believe we are alone.

have I once said to you must believe in what i believe because i am right?

I understand that duritz shares the same beliefs as you and you will naturally stick up for him....i can see some of the stuff you guys use as evidence ...if produced this in a fair and proper forum you guys would get torn apart...

 

[Duritz]

have I once said to you must believe in what i believe because i am right?

I understand that duritz shares the same beliefs as you and you will naturally stick up for him....i can see some of the stuff you guys use as evidence ...if produced this in a fair and proper forum you guys would get torn apart...

My argument is based solely in logic, and it's correct. Anyone who attempted to tear it apart would simply tear themselves apart instead.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

My argument is based solely in logic, and it's correct. Anyone who attempted to tear it apart would simply tear themselves apart instead.

Do you understand that there is a something that created life...do ..you understand this? Life isnt produced from this air

Do ...you...understand... that this something that creates life is not a known quantity...no one..not you....not even the smartest people in the world know this...

until anyone discovers what this something is your equations are false as we know life doesnt create itself even in the most perfect conditions....do you understand this.....if you dont...this means no matter how many life like planets exist 1 million 2 billion 3 billion if this some thing doesnt happen you get no life....

no before you say we are here...who knows what started it off for us here on earth some freak fluke accident... hand of god ...which would mean highly unlikely life exists elsewhere..... and we know this something is a rare occurance because we cant reproduce it in many different conditions....the only question is how rare is it....which will determine how probable life is.

 

[Duritz]

Do you understand that there is a something that created life...do ..you understand this? Life isnt produced from this air

Do ...you...understand... that this something that creates life is not a known quantity...no one..not you....not even the smartest people in the world know this...

Yes, I... do... understand... this. In fact, I... talked about this... in an... earlier... post.

And it doesn't matter what it is that created life (God, science, a supercomputer trying to find the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything), all that matters is that whatever it is, it happened. Therefore, it has a probability of occurring. Given the number of planets out there, the probability of it occurring again is therefore as close to 1.0 as no odds.

I think I understand this better than the vast majority, in fact.

until anyone discovers what this something is your equations are false as we know life doesnt create itself even in the most perfect conditions....do you understand this.....if you dont...this means no matter how many life like planets exist 1 million 2 billion 3 billion if this some thing doesnt happen you get no life....

No, they are not. As I said above, what created it is entirely irrelevant, but that something/one did.

no before you say we are here...who knows what started it off for us here on earth some freak fluke accident... hand of god ...which would mean highly unlikely life exists elsewhere..... and we know this something is a rare occurance because we cant reproduce it in many different conditions....the only question is how rare is it....which will determine how probable life is.

Again, it's irrelevant what it was, but that it was.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Yes, I... do... understand... this. In fact, I... talked about this... in an... earlier... post.

And it doesn't matter what it is that created life (God, science, a supercomputer trying to find the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything), all that matters is that whatever it is, it happened. Therefore, it has a probability of occurring. Given the number of planets out there, the probability of it occurring again is therefore as close to 1.0 as no odds.

I think I understand this better than the vast majority, in fact.



No, they are not. As I said above, what created it is entirely irrelevant, but that something/one did.



Again, it's irrelevant what it was, but that it was.

so you are saying if it turned out the diety talked about in religous text was the one after all which created us who tells us we are unique ...that odds are it will happen again ....lol