Past Aliir Aliir - traded 2020, to Port

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Kennedy Parker

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Aliir Aliir

Player Profile

Aliir Aliir is a key defender with elite intercept-marking skills who generates a wealth of drive out of the Sydney Swans’ backline. Although he’s just 25, the 2013 draftee is now one of the Swans’ most experienced backmen after the retirement of champion defenders Jarrad McVeigh, Heath Grundy and Nick Smith. Aliir’s height, excellent verticle leap and cat-like movement around the footy also make him a handy option as a back-up ruckman. Born in Kenya to Sudanese parents, Aliir is an inspiration to kids from diverse backgrounds starting a new chapter in Australia. Draft history: 2013 AFL Draft 3rd round selection (Sydney) No. 44 overall.

Aliir Aliir

DOB: 05 September 1994
DEBUT:2014
DRAFT: 2013
RECRUITED FROM: Aspley (Qld)/East Fremantle (WAFL)

 
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Jewelsbon

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It's not hard to not click into a thread if you don't want to Jewels. If true that you follow the club and not individual players (somewhat of an oxymoron to me, since you can't have one without the other, but to each their own), then you can just avoid any thread with the 'Past player' filter. That filter exists for a reason - it's a valid topic of discussion and you can't deny that the discussion is on topic. So it comes off as a little condescending to say that people who are discussing a valid topic in the relevant thread are being "illogical" and "nauseating", just because you may not agree with the arguments being made.

And I come in peace as I respect your views and usually agree with them anyway.:rainbow:
It's all good Caesar I enjoy your posts too, I just don't get the constant rehashing of a player that is no longer a Swan, what purpose does it serve? And it's not even the rehashing that irkes me the most, it's that so many that keep harping on and on and on refuse to see the logic and reasoning behind the trade! No problem with people bemoaning the trade, it's that some on here refuse to look at the whole picture and I find that outlook truly bazaar.
As far as just not opening the past player thread, I'm a bit OCD and just have to open every highlighted thread, that's why an ignore function in the same fashion as the poster ignore function would greatly assist weirdos like myself.
 

caesar88

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It's all good Caesar I enjoy your posts too, I just don't get the constant rehashing of a player that is no longer a Swan, what purpose does it serve? And it's not even the rehashing that irkes me the most, it's that so many that keep harping on and on and on refuse to see the logic and reasoning behind the trade! No problem with people bemoaning the trade, it's that some on here refuse to look at the whole picture and I find that outlook truly bazaar.
As far as just not opening the past player thread, I'm a bit OCD and just have to open every highlighted thread, that's why an ignore function in the same fashion as the poster ignore function would greatly assist weirdos like myself.

Nothing weird about it! I have vowed to stay away from the draft and trade thread, yet that is a challenge when it is constantly at the top of the page with new comments! I think some kind soul should provide me weekly summaries of what is being said in that thread so I don't have to go in there myself!

As for the Aliir trade, I completely get the logic behind it. I'm not sure anyone couldn't when the club was incredibly clear that they were prioritising a ruckman. I just don't agree with it, as I think we gave up a star player in his prime in a position we could've done with this year, for a guy who is nearing the twilight of his career in a position that has helped us this year, but not to the extent that it justified the trade IMO.

In short, and I've been consistent on this going back to before the deal was even done, I think we over-rated the importance of the ruck position. This is nothing against Hickey btw, who I thought was awesome this year.
 

robbieando

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Nothing weird about it! I have vowed to stay away from the draft and trade thread, yet that is a challenge when it is constantly at the top of the page with new comments! I think some kind soul should provide me weekly summaries of what is being said in that thread so I don't have to go in there myself!

As for the Aliir trade, I completely get the logic behind it. I'm not sure anyone couldn't when the club was incredibly clear that they were prioritising a ruckman. I just don't agree with it, as I think we gave up a star player in his prime in a position we could've done with this year, for a guy who is nearing the twilight of his career in a position that has helped us this year, but not to the extent that it justified the trade IMO.

In short, and I've been consistent on this going back to before the deal was even done, I think we over-rated the importance of the ruck position. This is nothing against Hickey btw, who I thought was awesome this year.


Aliir would've still been stuck behind Tom McCartin if he stayed at the club, just as he was at the end of last season. We cannot sit here and say that he would've had this kind of season if he stayed at the Swans. More than likely he would've been in and out of the side and been facing certain delisting if he carried his form on. That's not a slight on Aliir, he needed to move more than he needed to stay.

We know what Aliir is capable of at his best and we are seeing that in a team that needed a player like him, but there was no way he was going to be played in the same position or with the same consistency if he stayed. He is benefiting from a change of club and we are benefiting from the pieces we received in return.

This trade was more than just prioritising a ruckman, a priority that needed to be addressed nonetheless as it was a clear weakness last year and there is no way we have the same improvement as a club playing Sinclair. It was about freeing up the backlog of positions in our defence so that both the club, Tom McCartin and Aliir all benefited, we addressed our ruck stocks without losing any of our 2020 draft pick capital and were left in a position to gain the draft points to ensure we were able to draft Errol Gulden.

Without making this trade we don't get a ruckman (unless we go dumpster diving in the DFA pool) and we miss out on Gulden.

So yes we lose out on Aliir, but we gained Hickey and Gulden and allow McCartin to benefit from a clear run at CHB for a full season rather than have him and Aliir battle for the position on and off and both players stagnate and we lost Aliir for nothing this year.
 

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caesar88

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Aliir would've still been stuck behind Tom McCartin if he stayed at the club, just as he was at the end of last season. We cannot sit here and say that he would've had this kind of season if he stayed at the Swans. More than likely he would've been in and out of the side and been facing certain delisting if he carried his form on. That's not a slight on Aliir, he needed to move more than he needed to stay.

We know what Aliir is capable of at his best and we are seeing that in a team that needed a player like him, but there was no way he was going to be played in the same position or with the same consistency if he stayed. He is benefiting from a change of club and we are benefiting from the pieces we received in return.

This trade was more than just prioritising a ruckman, a priority that needed to be addressed nonetheless as it was a clear weakness last year and there is no way we have the same improvement as a club playing Sinclair. It was about freeing up the backlog of positions in our defence so that both the club, Tom McCartin and Aliir all benefited, we addressed our ruck stocks without losing any of our 2020 draft pick capital and were left in a position to gain the draft points to ensure we were able to draft Errol Gulden.

Without making this trade we don't get a ruckman (unless we go dumpster diving in the DFA pool) and we miss out on Gulden.

So yes we lose out on Aliir, but we gained Hickey and Gulden and allow McCartin to benefit from a clear run at CHB for a full season rather than have him and Aliir battle for the position on and off and both players stagnate and we lost Aliir for nothing this year.

I don't see Aliir as playing the same role as McCartin. As I said in another thread, I think McCartin is more the old-fashioned, 1v1 beast type; Melican is more the athletic defender suited to mobile forwards. So Aliir would've been in competition with Melican for that role and/or the Fox/COR/Blakey role of spare man in defence, which on all evidence you'd have to say Aliir would've been an upgrade on all of them (I am fans of all of them but clearly none are on Aliir's level.)
 

robbieando

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I don't see Aliir as playing the same role as McCartin. As I said in another thread, I think McCartin is more the old-fashioned, 1v1 beast type; Melican is more the athletic defender suited to mobile forwards. So Aliir would've been in competition with Melican for that role and/or the Fox/COR/Blakey role of spare man in defence, which on all evidence you'd have to say Aliir would've been an upgrade on all of them (I am fans of all of them but clearly none are on Aliir's level.)

Except Melican is used as a one on one defender (a role Aliir cannot play), McCartin is used as the more mobile, CHB type intercept defender (the role best suited to Aliir) and Rampe plays the third tall option who can play tall or short depending on matchups (Aliir can play this role but requires fair more accountability for his man which takes away from his game).

Sure he could've taken the Fox/COR/Campbell/Hewitt Swiss knife 4th defender role this year, but as I have already said we were able to improve other areas of the team that we would not have been able to if Aliir stayed at the club in that position where we showed we had passable options. It was a win-win for the team and for Aliir.

We keep Aliir, he doesn't have the year that he has had and we don't have the improvement as a team. It's as simple as that.
 

bungee

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It's all good Caesar I enjoy your posts too, I just don't get the constant rehashing of a player that is no longer a Swan, what purpose does it serve? And it's not even the rehashing that irkes me the most, it's that so many that keep harping on and on and on refuse to see the logic and reasoning behind the trade! No problem with people bemoaning the trade, it's that some on here refuse to look at the whole picture and I find that outlook truly bazaar.
As far as just not opening the past player thread, I'm a bit OCD and just have to open every highlighted thread, that's why an ignore function in the same fashion as the poster ignore function would greatly assist weirdos like myself.
I hear you Jewels. Not everyone can see the big picture, even if some might think they do. Many struggle with the complexities of trading, which can be counter-intuitive an even involve game theory. There are few in the AFL system who can do trade as well as the Swans can. Paul Roos was one of the first in the AFL to think outside the box. He understood that the real measure of a player's value is their useful value to the team, not their intrinsic value. If you were freezing to death in the wilderness a gold watch would be worthless, but a box of matches may be priceless.

Some just don't want to see the big picture. But, you're right, it can be frustrating when people bang the same drum over and over. Horse and the recruiters have put together a combination of players and coaches that have lifted us rapidly, from bottom dwellers in 2019 and 2020 and carrying an injured player who was soaking up much of our cap space, to a team who can beat anyone, smashing our premiership window wide open. It's even more impressive we were trying to gel a new team and new game plan together despite Covid interruptions and cuts to our football department.

Aliir is a brilliant player, as an intercept defender, an area we have very well covered by more versatile defenders who can also play other roles. In an ideal world we'd have endless cap space and we'd keep all the good players, but that's not the real world. We have limited cap, a limited player list, some mandatory turn over of players and a limited number of drafts. That's the reality of the AFL. No club has had a faster rise or a quicker rebuild. Huge kudos to the club for making very good decisions.

Melican has one less intercept on average than Aliir, but he can also wrestle with the gorilla forwards, and he's bloody quick in a short sprint. He cut Hawkins to bits last time we met. McCartin, can do much of what Aliir does and also has a few more tricks. Horse tried to improve Aliir's versatility, and thus his value to OUR team, by exposing him to other positions. Sometimes that was also by necessity. But Aliir is a one trick pony, an exceptionally gifted one trick pony, but it's not a trick we especially needed.

It's an excepted maxim in the AFL these days that, in general, players need to be able to play more than one position. So with limted cap, a desperate need for a ruck and a few more draft points, the coahes and recruiters made the best possible deals for the good of the team. Hickey was reborn a Swan, Aliir got a 4 year deal, Port got what they needed and we got what we needed with no hard feelings. Did I say it was a win-win ? No, it was a win-win-win-win.

The AAAA WWWW deal.
 

bungee

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I don't see Aliir as playing the same role as McCartin. As I said in another thread, I think McCartin is more the old-fashioned, 1v1 beast type; Melican is more the athletic defender suited to mobile forwards. So Aliir would've been in competition with Melican for that role and/or the Fox/COR/Blakey role of spare man in defence, which on all evidence you'd have to say Aliir would've been an upgrade on all of them (I am fans of all of them but clearly none are on Aliir's level.)
I see the point you're making, but cast your view wider to the skills of "Back 6" as a whole. What we need is an effective overall defence, covering all the roles with the fewest players and using the least cap space, while giving us the maximum versatility, should one or more players get injured.

Look wider still to the team selection, development and recruitment. It isn't about individual players. It's about the mix of skills we can bring into the overall team capability. It's why coaches talk about "filling a role". There are heaps of different skills needed and different roles that a team has to cover between them.

Rather than looking at Aliir the player, look at what skills he brought and their value to us. He's an intercept defender. He reads the ball well in flight and can float across to intercept, either spoiling or marking. He can create drive out of defence.

Melican, McCartin, Rampe and a few others can all roll off and intercept. Melican is quite close to Aliir in just hiw intercept abilities, but he, McCartin and Rampe all bring better one on one skills. Lloyd, Cunningham, Blakey, Fox and Rampe can all create drive out of defence. I expect Blakey will surpass everyone with his combination of height, speed and kicking.

Alliir has no skills that we don't already have within the team. What's more, he only really plays one position. For example, Fox, Rampe, Cunningham, LLoyd and Blakey could all play midfield and/or forward if needed. McCartin and Melican are both very good one on one defenders. Fox and Rampe can play on talls as well as they play on talls. Cunningham and Blakey have speed to burn.

Aliir stands out at Port because he is their main intercept defender. He plays that role as well as anyone. He would add little to the Swans that we really neede, which is not a slight on him, it's just looking at the overall mix of skills in the team, rather than the man himself, who by all accounts was well-liked by players and coaches at the Swans.
 

bungee

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Aliir would've still been stuck behind Tom McCartin if he stayed at the club, just as he was at the end of last season. We cannot sit here and say that he would've had this kind of season if he stayed at the Swans. More than likely he would've been in and out of the side and been facing certain delisting if he carried his form on. That's not a slight on Aliir, he needed to move more than he needed to stay.

We know what Aliir is capable of at his best and we are seeing that in a team that needed a player like him, but there was no way he was going to be played in the same position or with the same consistency if he stayed. He is benefiting from a change of club and we are benefiting from the pieces we received in return.

This trade was more than just prioritising a ruckman, a priority that needed to be addressed nonetheless as it was a clear weakness last year and there is no way we have the same improvement as a club playing Sinclair. It was about freeing up the backlog of positions in our defence so that both the club, Tom McCartin and Aliir all benefited, we addressed our ruck stocks without losing any of our 2020 draft pick capital and were left in a position to gain the draft points to ensure we were able to draft Errol Gulden.

Without making this trade we don't get a ruckman (unless we go dumpster diving in the DFA pool) and we miss out on Gulden.

So yes we lose out on Aliir, but we gained Hickey and Gulden and allow McCartin to benefit from a clear run at CHB for a full season rather than have him and Aliir battle for the position on and off and both players stagnate and we lost Aliir for nothing this year.
Spot on Robbie
 

bungee

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Mistake wasn’t trading Aliir, it was how we treated him from 2017 onwards.
Bouncing around the ground and in/out of the team.
There was no evidence to suggest that would have been any different this year.
Sometimes it was filling a role, especially when we had most of our talls injured. Other times it was a chance to broaden his skills to increase his value to the team. It should always be "team first" but a stint in the ressies can be in a player's interest too.
 

bungee

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How did we get into a position where we didn't have the salary cap/trade currency to afford a 29 year old journeyman ruckman at his 3rd club?

Disgraceful list management, simple as that
"Disgraceful list management" ? Come on, seriously ? Most teams would kill to have the success of the Swans list management. That list management rebuilt a club list in record time, taking us from zeroes to the brink of heroes, filled our treasure chests with oodles of top young talent with the skills needed to dominate for the next decade. All this with Buddy still drawing a huge chunk of our cap that there's no way out of. Big kudos to our recruiters and kudos to our fitness staff for making sure Buddy got back to giving us more of what we paid for. This is a club of miracle workers.

Hickey was cheap enough, but Aliir's currency was a year left on his contract, meaning he could have walked at the end of this year for nothing. We had to judge whether he added enough needed skills to our team to spend limited salary cap matching a 4 year contract. The limited cap must pay for all the skills we need, which must be squeezed into 22 players, maybe 10 spares and the rest in development. The draft currency is a finite amount of points, yet we managed to snare all the picks we were after to pick up more than our fair share of talent.

Maybe you should read up about how the cap and draft points work. It's far more complex than most people assume. They're quite separate things but they interact too. Neither is simply a number. The cap looks at future obligations and present. If a player becomes more valuable they inevitably ask for more of the cap at their next contract, so we might have the money for player X for 2 years but if player Y is offered more a year later we may not be able to keep them. Had we held Aliir to the last year of his contract he may walked anyway. The draft is not straightforward either, where we can sell off future draft selections to improve present points, or vice versa. We don't even know in advance whether a player might be up for grabs, how much they'll be worth in points, what picks we'll have or whether another team will force us to bid earlier than anticipated. There's a reason why we have clever experienced teams of people working on recruitment. It's not easy to do it as well as our club does.
 

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TheMase

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Melican wrestled the monsters on the weekend like hogan and sproue alright

He wasn’t on Sproule I don’t believe. Certainly he was on Hogan for the thirst 3 quarters. Sproule only had 1 kick and 1 mark in the final quarter (and Himmelberg didn’t touch the ball at all as McCartin moved off him onto Hogan).

So I think it was on Hogan that really got on top of Lewis.
 

Punts

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He wasn’t on Sproule I don’t believe. Certainly he was on Hogan for the thirst 3 quarters. Sproule only had 1 kick and 1 mark in the final quarter (and Himmelberg didn’t touch the ball at all as McCartin moved off him onto Hogan).

So I think it was on Hogan that really got on top of Lewis.
Was on him 100 for a little

2 contested beaten
 

Punts

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He wasn’t on Sproule I don’t believe. Certainly he was on Hogan for the thirst 3 quarters. Sproule only had 1 kick and 1 mark in the final quarter (and Himmelberg didn’t touch the ball at all as McCartin moved off him onto Hogan).

So I think it was on Hogan that really got on top of Lewis.
Was beaten on the wing , still remember
 

BloodySwan

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Same sh*t happen when we let Mitchell go , trying to justify the trades

all AustralianBrownlow medallist

all aus chb running defender

we don’t need them
Never understood the Mitchell trade. 1 year before we saw the value Giants got for Trealor and we just rolled over. We were keen to see the back of Mitchell and from rumours Aliir and Horse never got on 100% either
 

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