All about Trump

[ExcitementMachine]

For some, the advancement of women's rights since the 1960s is 'identity politics', as is the pursuit of gay rights and equality for African Americans.

How do you define the term, 'identity politics'?

Hey mate sorry for not responding to.your thought out post from.a few days back as never got the chance...
I'm obviously typing this on my phone and forgive my adhd here.

I used identity politics in an ambivalent context previously. As soon as I.mentioned it I was chastised as being someone who got their vices from something like 4chan - this wasn't you for the record.

You are right, identity politics has seen the advancement of women's right and civil rights in the us for African Americans.

Its also a.hot topic today as to change the date, which I am all for. In fact for me its a no brainer.

When taken to the extreme though it can have negative connotations and these people only do harm to the/their cause.

So I see it as an.ambivalent term, fwiw Trump, brexit are ironically identity politics too.

So really when I mention identity politics most of the time it really is what it is.

 

[sr36]

Hey mate sorry for not responding to.your thought out post from.a few days back as never got the chance...
I'm obviously typing this on my phone and forgive my adhd here.

I used identity politics in an ambivalent context previously. As soon as I.mentioned it I was chastised as being someone who got their vices from something like 4chan - this wasn't you for the record.

You are right, identity politics has seen the advancement of women's right and civil rights in the us for African Americans.

Its also a.hot topic today as to change the date, which I am all for. In fact for me its a no brainer.

When taken to the extreme though it can have negative connotations and these people only do harm to the/their cause.

So I see it as an.ambivalent term, fwiw Trump, brexit are ironically identity politics too.

So really when I mention identity politics most of the time it really is what it is.

I'd love to hear an explanation of what it actually means. It's a term that gets bandied around a lot, but I never know what it is referring to.

 

[JB1975]

Hey mate sorry for not responding to.your thought out post from.a few days back as never got the chance...
I'm obviously typing this on my phone and forgive my adhd here.

I used identity politics in an ambivalent context previously. As soon as I.mentioned it I was chastised as being someone who got their vices from something like 4chan - this wasn't you for the record.

You are right, identity politics has seen the advancement of women's right and civil rights in the us for African Americans.

Its also a.hot topic today as to change the date, which I am all for. In fact for me its a no brainer.

When taken to the extreme though it can have negative connotations and these people only do harm to the/their cause.

So I see it as an.ambivalent term, fwiw Trump, brexit are ironically identity politics too.

So really when I mention identity politics most of the time it really is what it is.

In the end, societies like ours are made up of a series of sectional interests, and terms like 'identity politics' are often (not always) used to disparage those causes and interests which people take issue with.

Just to point out such issues can be categorised as 'divisive'.

The way I see it, the pursuit of individual and group rights and interests is an important task of democracies like ours.

It ain't easy, because balancing different interests is always hard, and because the 'push back' (e.g. in the US) can be toxic, but it's no less necessary for that.

 

[Markfs]

interesting thing about identity politics to me, is that it's also done by the right who say that they are promoting themselves as a white-skinned group of people.... but a lot of them do it by trashing other groups especially racial, but also sexuality, religious etc.

identity politics is just a sexy way of saying collective action...and people in charge hate collective action

 

[Markfs]

i just want to post about this once. Margaret Court got an AC today. She previously had an AO and an MBE. How many times does Australia need to congratulate her for the grand slams? Why give her another award now? I see no point to it. On a wider note, are politicians more deserving of these awards? Bronwyn Bishop in the past, to just name one? Loss of respect for those in power and the decisions they make, was one of the main reasons for Donald Trump.

 

[HeathySure]

i just want to post about this once. Margaret Court got an AC today. She previously had an AO and an MBE. How many times does Australia need to congratulate her for the grand slams? Why give her another award now? I see no point to it. On a wider note, are politicians more deserving of these awards? Bronwyn Bishop in the past, to just name one? Loss of respect for those in power and the decisions they make, was one of the main reasons for Donald Trump.

I am still waiting on my award for services to laziness, Cant imagine anyone else better at that than me.

 

[sr36]

identity politics is just a sexy way of saying collective action...and people in charge hate collective action

All interest groups don't seem to be considered identity politics. When is it that a lobby groups action gets called identity politics? Serious question, as I really don't understand the term.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

All interest groups don't seem to be considered identity politics. When is it that a lobby groups action gets called identity politics? Serious question, as I really don't understand the term.

The term seems to have underpinnings from counterculture and to quote a professor that is a counter to straight/white/maleness - hence identity politics seems to be a word for groups who push for collective action against the perceived dominant culture/group, in the Western World. Although I agree with you, the Jewish Lobby for instance - that's identity politics too right, but they are in the suckles of conservative governments Western World over.

Identity politics gets tied in sometimes, understandably with cultural marxism - and when I introduced the term in this thread I obviously meant the collective movements through identity politics to strive for racial egalitarianism without any consideration of traditional Marxist ideology. I don't think many people really are aware of the Jewish conspiracy theory when using this term. That a poster pretty much confirmed the reality of my definition of cultural marxism in this thread does justify the use of the terms identity politics and in particular cultural marxism in the way I and most people use and interpret those words for the sake of the discussion in this thread.

I know it's a convoluted and complex discussion, however the counterculture movement where Cultural Marxism and even Identity Politics has flowered can be argued that it lacks integrity in it's aims - sometimes greatly so - as it is, at times, staunchly anti establishment - white/straight/male and in extreme cases with no consideration to the persons social/mateiral status. Which isn't egalitarianism in it's behaiviour.

 

[Markfs]

I am still waiting on my award for services to laziness, Cant imagine anyone else better at that than me.

You havent seen me working. I start thinking about resting the moment I start to exert myself...

 

[Markfs]

All interest groups don't seem to be considered identity politics. When is it that a lobby groups action gets called identity politics? Serious question, as I really don't understand the term.

The reason it cant be defined is that once you put limits on it by definition, your definition starts becoming too narrow. In other words, white people can gather and use collective action. Black people can do it and it becomes identity politics.

I know it sounds inane but gay or lesbian groups have similarities to gun groups - a group of people who gather and seek strength from each other and mutual support and social opportunities and promote their collective interests. If a gun owner identifies themselves strongly as a gun owner and seeks others that are similar to promote their interests, then isnt that identity politics?

Collective action is the core thing, not the colour of the skin or the sexuality or whatever.

However, identity politics is apparently used by the right to label minority collective groups. It would be better to call these groups Nike or Amazon and it would be a better label than "identity politics" because it would be just a name. We could use the term "minority politics" but what happens when a group of women are pushing a feminist agenda? How can it be minority politics when they are in the majority?

Yes, I think these labels are silly and american.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

In the end, societies like ours are made up of a series of sectional interests, and terms like 'identity politics' are often (not always) used to disparage those causes and interests which people take issue with.

Just to point out such issues can be categorised as 'divisive'.

The way I see it, the pursuit of individual and group rights and interests is an important task of democracies like ours.

It ain't easy, because balancing different interests is always hard, and because the 'push back' (e.g. in the US) can be toxic, but it's no less necessary for that.

You've explained that really well with valid points in a way that supports your side of the argument.

You can't really articulate it all though in four paragraphs probably need a thesis.

That's because these issues are very convoluted and complex. Personally I see fault with, and I hate using a term from fox, but I see fault with academic left in all.of this too and there's strong push back and scepticism to that.

 

[sr36]

I know it sounds inane but gay or lesbian groups have similarities to gun groups - a group of people who gather and seek strength from each other and mutual support and social opportunities and promote their collective interests. If a gun owner identifies themselves strongly as a gun owner and seeks others that are similar to promote their interests, then isnt that identity politics?

And significantly, considering the term, identify together with a shared culture of symbols, slogans, memes - even identifiable fashion.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

The reason it cant be defined is that once you put limits on it by definition, your definition starts becoming too narrow. In other words, white people can gather and use collective action. Black people can do it and it becomes identity politics.

I know it sounds inane but gay or lesbian groups have similarities to gun groups - a group of people who gather and seek strength from each other and mutual support and social opportunities and promote their collective interests. If a gun owner identifies themselves strongly as a gun owner and seeks others that are similar to promote their interests, then isnt that identity politics?

Collective action is the core thing, not the colour of the skin or the sexuality or whatever.

However, identity politics is apparently used by the right to label minority collective groups. It would be better to call these groups Nike or Amazon and it would be a better label than "identity politics" because it would be just a name. We could use the term "minority politics" but what happens when a group of women are pushing a feminist agenda? How can it be minority politics when they are in the majority?

Yes, I think these labels are silly and american.

Think you'll find Identity Politics has a lot to do with leftists labelling anyone who holds a contrary view to theirs as racists, fascists, nazis etc.

Granted it occurs on both sides of politics, but far greater use by the political left. Particularly in the US.

The whole thing is just lazy point scoring.

 

[HeathySure]

I cant take anyone who labels someone as a leftist, or uses terms like woke, virtue signalling and echo chamber seriously.

 

[Markfs]

Think you'll find Identity Politics has a lot to do with leftists labelling anyone who holds a contrary view to theirs as racists, fascists, nazis etc.

Granted it occurs on both sides of politics, but far greater use by the political left. Particularly in the US.

The whole thing is just lazy point scoring.

I've seen Steve Bannon talk about it as the reason why Trump won in 2016 - Democrats too concerned with identity politics - so I dont disagree with you. It is just an example of repackaging to make a point - similar to collateral damage instead of murder.

 

[JB1975]

Think you'll find Identity Politics has a lot to do with leftists labelling anyone who holds a contrary view to theirs as racists, fascists, nazis etc.

Granted it occurs on both sides of politics, but far greater use by the political left. Particularly in the US.

The whole thing is just lazy point scoring.

That's really not what the term refers to at all.

Identity politics is usually a term thrown at the left to denigrate progressive causes, has nothing to do at all with the left shouting down contrary opinions.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

That's really not what the term refers to at all.

Identity politics is usually a term thrown at the left to denigrate progressive causes, has nothing to do at all with the left shouting down contrary opinions.

It is - pretty clearly.

Shouting down a contrary opinion, and then labelling them a Nazi - is essentially a bread and butter example. Its a one-size-fits-all expression, really.

Identity is just gender based; its heavily indoctrinated in current political discourse.

 

[Markfs]

It is - pretty clearly.

Shouting down a contrary opinion, and then labelling them a Nazi - is essentially a bread and butter example. Its a one-size-fits-all expression, really.

Identity is just gender based; its heavily indoctrinated in current political discourse.

it's usually how leftist groups are denigrated.... but you're right that there are a lot of people who identify with a particular group and band together to make their position heard, so they fit the generic definition of the term.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Identity politics is usually a term thrown at the left to denigrate progressive causes, has nothing to do at all with the left shouting down contrary opinions.

The hallmark of identity politics is victimhood. You owe me, is the subtext.

 

[JB1975]

The hallmark of identity politics is victimhood. You owe me, is the subtext.

Dear Ron,

Thank you for illustrating my definition with a succinct and simple example.

Yours, JB.

 

[sr36]

The hallmark of identity politics is victimhood. You owe me, is the subtext.

So Trump and his supporters claims of having had the election stolen is an example of identity politics?

Trump and his supporters claims against mainstream media are one too?

Trump's claim that ... ?

 

[Ron The Bear]

So Trump and his supporters claims of having had the election stolen is an example of identity politics?

Trump supporters aren't a 'minority' except in the broadest possible sense.

 

[Markfs]

So Trump and his supporters claims of having had the election stolen is an example of identity politics?

Trump and his supporters claims against mainstream media are one too?

Trump's claim that ... ?

well you could probably put the label on the white male formerly middle class worker who says that china took away his job and he thinks america should get it back for him...

 

[ExcitementMachine]

I cant take anyone who labels someone as a leftist, or uses terms like woke, virtue signalling and echo chamber seriously.

I get the feeling you are young with the pic in your avatar and now this.
You are aware that you've used labels like RWNJ in this thread?
There's definitely people on the left who espouse the qualities fitting of the derogatory connotations with the labels quoted in your post.
You'd be hypocritical not to be able to acknowledge that.
If you can use them, why can't they?

 

[sr36]

Trump supporters aren't a 'minority' except in the broadest possible sense.

Ok, so it has to be a minority to be identity politics and a minority can't be used in the broader sense?
So really when identity politics is used (I've only seen it used in a derogatory sense), it's a statement that blacks, other racial groups, non-christian religions or homosexuals shouldn't collectively suggest or make demands for equality?

I think I may avoid the term.