Mega Thread All AOD-9604 Discussion - Still Illegal but ASADA will not press charges on AOD9604 - McDevitt

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Ron The Bear

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Posts
27,953
Likes
25,010
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond

SunshineTiger

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Posts
19,970
Likes
30,484
Location
Somewhere in Queensland
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
On governance, no argument from me, I was a big fan of the Ziggy report (which many thought was a joke) and believed sanctions would result from it alone. All along though I've wanted sanctions to wait until all investigations were over.

Even on governance, if more info is found by asada it could dramatically change any sanctions the afl gives on governance issues.

As an example, if dank did talk, each of the following would IMO dramatically change any punishment the afl hand down based upon the info we are aware of today:

1) Dank confirms with tapes Hird specifically instructed him to engineer a ped program that would avoid detection, and to run it at arms length to allow deniability

2) dank confirms no ped activity actually occured at efc. He sold them vitamins, but falsely invoiced them for supplements which had significantly higher prices. To get away with this, he supplied false documents attesting to the validity of the supplements.

3) dank he was effectively allowed to run his own program, with no cheques or balances, and the encouragement of management

At the moment, it appears (3) is the go, but if Hird cops 6 months, it would be a joke if it's later found he was instrumental in the program.

Personally I think asada are done bar dank (who I don't think will ever talk), but if they genuinely have more, they should not have issued the interim report. Fwiw I think this was just expediency for the afl to try and get a ban in before the finals, which may compromise the whole case against efc.

We don't want the club avoiding sanction on a technicality like denial of natural justice

yeah......nah
 

NikkiNoo

Premium Platinum
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Posts
17,476
Likes
22,977
Location
in a happy place
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
panthers, ukraine & broncos
Accessing unapproved products

There are a number of ways that patients can gain access to products that have not been approved for use in Australia.

http://www.tga.gov.au/hp/access.htm

It looks like it's clearly not approved to me.Good luck with that one Essendon
I have always thought once I heard about AOD being used that Essendon's biggest problem might be with the TGA.

In order to use it they would have to have approval from the TGA; therefore, there would be a paper trail with the TGA if this were so. This paper trail would be quite detailed about who gets what etc. If they admit to using it and do not have any of these approvals, they could and should be in big trouble, very big trouble.
 

jenny61_99

Premium Platinum
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Posts
50,318
Likes
38,926
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Adelaide
I have always thought once I heard about AOD being used that Essendon's biggest problem might be with the TGA.

In order to use it they would have to have approval from the TGA; therefore, there would be a paper trail with the TGA if this were so. This paper trail would be quite detailed about who gets what etc. If they admit to using it and do not have any of these approvals, they could and should be in big trouble, very big trouble.
Because WADA deem it prohibited, any athlete would also require a TUE for use. Preparation by a compounding chemist doesn't change its status on the WADA prohibited list.
 

IanW

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Posts
13,503
Likes
9,833
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
#Exers
Because WADA deem it prohibited, any athlete would also require a TUE for use. Preparation by a compounding chemist doesn't change its status on the WADA prohibited list.
This, and while there are ways you can use experimental drugs in Australia, that doesnt stop them being experimental drugs.
 

Barkly St End

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Posts
10,127
Likes
1,219
Location
Barkly St
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Seagulls, Kookaburras
Ah, next time give a hint as to what you're replying to.

That was your last post and your first post on this subject, so hardly took hours to find. Not the first time you've made a similar post about never changing your story.
I'm not sure what you are comprehending - I was always about any charge under S0 being easily challenged - always - no inconsistency whatsoever.

Here is the thread Chief started for me (not at my instigation I might add):
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ication-of-the-s-0-clause-to-aod9604.1022903/

In fact - every 2nd post to me was about how Essendon would NOT want to have me defending them (which I readily accept, as I have no legal training). :)

In the meantime, our resident legal eagles on this board came up with such pearlers:
  • but Fahey said this
  • WADA said that
  • you can't challenge WADA - it's impossible
  • don't forget what happened to that push bike rider
In the end, these so-called experts were wide of the mark. Their references were worth diddly squat - their expert opinions weren't worth jack. They were the doyens of the baying mob - but they let the mob down badly.

Never mind - I see myself as an educator - I'm an educator of people. I'm alway looking forward, wanting to help people in their self-improvement.

With the indulgence of the community, I will prepare a brief paper which people can use as a reference tool in learning how to analyse complex issues. I will try and educate people on learning to pick up what is really important - what really matters - the things which will impact the final outcome - and the stuff which they can ignore.

With some guidance, I'm sure people can learn this skill. They may not be as good at it as I am, but they can improve.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Cronos

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Posts
3,151
Likes
4,953
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Chargers, Red Wings
Interesting report in there too that the Bombers lawyers will argue that they have a loophole with the compounding chemist so AOD doesn't come under S0 - no mention of getting the all clear from ASADA.
If WADA say it's still prohibited, doesn't this then become an aggravated offence as they are clearly trying to exploit a loophole?
 

Cronos

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Posts
3,151
Likes
4,953
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Chargers, Red Wings
I'm not sure what you are comprehending - I was always about any charge under S0 being easily challenged - always - no inconsistency whatsoever.

Here is the thread Chief started for me (not at my instigation I might add):
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ication-of-the-s-0-clause-to-aod9604.1022903/
I'm stopping reading this post right here, because as usual, you've ignored the fact that your new thread was posted August 2. Your original argument started July 17, two and a half weeks earlier. The original argument was that S0 clearly said that once anyone even looked at Section 2, that S0 was irrelevent. Not that there was a grey area, you were 100% convinced.
 

Football Pope

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
7,939
Likes
3,642
Location
Right here
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Australian International Sides
On governance, no argument from me, I was a big fan of the Ziggy report (which many thought was a joke) and believed sanctions would result from it alone. All along though I've wanted sanctions to wait until all investigations were over.

Even on governance, if more info is found by asada it could dramatically change any sanctions the afl gives on governance issues.

As an example, if dank did talk, each of the following would IMO dramatically change any punishment the afl hand down based upon the info we are aware of today:

1) Dank confirms with tapes Hird specifically instructed him to engineer a ped program that would avoid detection, and to run it at arms length to allow deniability

2) dank confirms no ped activity actually occured at efc. He sold them vitamins, but falsely invoiced them for supplements which had significantly higher prices. To get away with this, he supplied false documents attesting to the validity of the supplements.

3) dank he was effectively allowed to run his own program, with no cheques or balances, and the encouragement of management

At the moment, it appears (3) is the go, but if Hird cops 6 months, it would be a joke if it's later found he was instrumental in the program.

Personally I think asada are done bar dank (who I don't think will ever talk), but if they genuinely have more, they should not have issued the interim report. Fwiw I think this was just expediency for the afl to try and get a ban in before the finals, which may compromise the whole case against efc.

We don't want the club avoiding sanction on a technicality like denial of natural justice
We disagree on whether we believe ASADA are done investigating the EFC. They'd have player & management interviews in transcripts to wade through...From that, they may choose to exercise the new powers for further investigation and leave it open in case new information comes to light...
Wasn't Ryder called to AFL house to explain to the AFL what he meant in his ASADA interview?.

 

rfctiger74

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Posts
43,897
Likes
81,582
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
76'ers
We disagree on whether we believe ASADA are done investigating the EFC. They'd have player & management interviews in transcripts to wade through...From that, they may choose to exercise the new powers for further investigation and leave it open in case new information comes to light...
Wasn't Ryder called to AFL house to explain to the AFL what he meant in his ASADA interview?.

Not sure on the last. When this started though ASADA said it would take about a month to review all info and draft the final report. That time is pretty much done now.

Their focus is on Cronulla again anyway, so hitting the pause button on closing off is no skin off their nose. If dank comes forward, great. if not, nothing changes, so why rush. Pisses the rest of us wanting to move on, but its the public service for you (just be grateful we aren't wanting to install pink batts!)
 

Football Pope

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
7,939
Likes
3,642
Location
Right here
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Australian International Sides
Not sure on the last. When this started though ASADA said it would take about a month to review all info and draft the final report. That time is pretty much done now.

Their focus is on Cronulla again anyway, so hitting the pause button on closing off is no skin off their nose. If dank comes forward, great. if not, nothing changes, so why rush. Pisses the rest of us wanting to move on, but its the public service for you (just be grateful we aren't wanting to install pink batts!)


LOL....Nah, I believe I'd fail their entrance requirements...

The government have put in extra doss to expand ASADA.....Cronulla will have it's own investigation team.
 

Football Pope

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Posts
7,939
Likes
3,642
Location
Right here
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Australian International Sides
Not sure on the last. When this started though ASADA said it would take about a month to review all info and draft the final report. That time is pretty much done now.

Their focus is on Cronulla again anyway, so hitting the pause button on closing off is no skin off their nose. If dank comes forward, great. if not, nothing changes, so why rush. Pisses the rest of us wanting to move on, but its the public service for you (just be grateful we aren't wanting to install pink batts!)
it also emerged Essendon ruckman Patrick Ryder had a brief meeting at AFL House on Thursday to clarify part of the statement he made when interviewed by ASADA.

 
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Posts
2,286
Likes
1,810
Location
Kicking it up the guts
AFL Club
Fremantle
Never mind - I see myself as an educator - I'm an educator of people. I'm alway looking forward, wanting to help people in their self-improvement.

With the indulgence of the community, I will prepare a brief paper which people can use as a reference tool in learning how to analyse complex issues. I will try and educate people on learning to pick up what is really important - what really matters - the things which will impact the final outcome - and the stuff which they can ignore.

With some guidance, I'm sure people can learn this skill. They may not be as good at it as I am, but they can improve.
The line between annoying yet intriguing troll and sanctimonious wanker - you just crossed it.
 

jinny1

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Posts
1,913
Likes
182
Location
Medius de Nusquam
AFL Club
Melbourne
AOD 9604 has the amino acid sequence YLRIVQCRSVEGSCGF, which is a peptide from the C-terminus of Human Growth Hormone (HGH), with an added N-terminal tyrosine.. How stupid can Dank and Hird to use it?? I mean Hird isn't a biochemist but Dank co-owns the Medical Rejuvenation Clinic Australia Pty Ltd which sells this peptide....Surely he knew he was basically giving them HGH?

And they still deny they gave their players prohibited drugs lol
 

Anoncomment

All Australian
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Posts
731
Likes
892
AFL Club
Fremantle
I love that Essendon have gone for the Big Footy defence, that because it can be obtained through other means in Australia, it is approved for therapeutic use. They are going to fail miserably with this defence. Only the TGA can provide this kind of approval. S0 does not refer to "not approved for therapeutic use, but if you can get it through other legal means that will be okay". Sorry Essendon, TGA approval or GTFO.

Amateurs.
 

Ancient Tiger

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Posts
15,116
Likes
29,209
Location
Richmond
AFL Club
Richmond
AOD 9604 has the amino acid sequence YLRIVQCRSVEGSCGF, which is a peptide from the C-terminus of Human Growth Hormone (HGH), with an added N-terminal tyrosine.. How stupid can Dank and Hird to use it?? I mean Hird isn't a biochemist but Dank co-owns the Medical Rejuvenation Clinic Australia Pty Ltd which sells this peptide....Surely he knew he was basically giving them HGH?

And they still deny they gave their players prohibited drugs lol
It's not hGH as that is a 191 amino acid peptide. AOD is only a 16 amino acid peptide.
Huge difference. That's not to say in high doses it may mimic it.
 

jinny1

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Posts
1,913
Likes
182
Location
Medius de Nusquam
AFL Club
Melbourne
It's not hGH as that is a 191 amino acid peptide. AOD is only a 16 amino acid peptide.
Huge difference. That's not to say in high doses it may mimic it.
Like I said, they just took the C-Terminus of HGH and then attacked an N-Terminal tyrosine through a presumably standard condensation reaction.

191 amino acid probably means the protein has 2 independent domains but obviously Dank Co. did not manufacture a whole domain/module of HGH otherwise he would probably be in jail right now LOL.

I exaggerated it being basically a HGH but as soon as you start taking sequences from HGH even though it is a small proportion, you are precariously close to going over the edge..
 

jinny1

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Posts
1,913
Likes
182
Location
Medius de Nusquam
AFL Club
Melbourne
On the other hand, i question exactly how AOD-9604 is "performance-enhancing". The only academic research i could find on it considered it to have "the potential to be developed into a therapeutic agent for the control of obesity". It only seems to have weight-loss benefits, it's not like AOD-9604 alters haemoglobin's affinity for oxygen or something...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11116208
 

Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
May 6, 2007
Posts
24,615
Likes
11,275
Location
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
Top Bottom