Running/Fitness All things cardio

[saj_21]

Thought cardio deserved a thread on it's own, just like anything health, fitness, gym etc there is advantages and disadvantages, different forms of cardio. Love it or hate it;

Personally being a local footy player it has been a big part of my training the last 12 years, which is partly why i'm really not enjoying running at all at the moment and plus recovering from leg injuries this season.

Over the last 12 months, since i have joined they gym and really got into all things health and fitness, i've realised that steady state cardio wasn't the be all and end all. It's an overrated form of exercise (IMO) unless you are specifically training for a 5 km or 10 km fun run, or for footy season etc.

The next couple of months when i do start running again it will be HIIT 10-20 mins and on Sundays as rest day i will be walking.

So what are your thoughts on cardio? What forms do you do and how do you incorporate it into your training?

 

[Poetic Justice]

In addition to my weight training (3 sessions a week), I do 3 sessions 30 minutes made of 15min on the bike (hard) and 15min on the x-trainer (hard). I also play a game of basketball, and run the tan running track once also.

 

[kaydub]

Below is a great read about intervals and when to use them.

I have had great success with following this advice for footy and general running fitness. I am not the fastest, but I gained a lot of speed in the off season working with these principles and the principles on this site: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tr...training-part-5-interval-training-part-2.html
There is a table at the bottom of that page in the 'Summing up' section that is extremely helpful.


"The Purpose of Intervals"
by Mr Andy Spaniel.

There are three basic types of intervals, each with a purpose:

1) 200-400m intervals with long recoveries:

The purpose of this workout is to develop raw speed, working on strength, turnover, and fast-twitch muscle coordination. To achieve this, it is important to run each interval as fast as possible. Long recoveries are used to make sure you can run each interval near maximal pace. By definition, these intervals are limited to a max of 400m in length as you can't sustain speed longer than this. If you are prepping for a 800m or 1500/1600m race, you may do 600-800m in this workout though you will likely no longer be at maximal speed, but doing more or a race simulation (ie running 800m at 1500m race pace). These workouts are actually not very fatiguing, because if you accumulate residual fatigue between intervals you can't sustain the speed required in the workout. Of the three types, this will have the fewest number of intervals in a set.

2) 400m-1600m intervals with medium recoveries:

The purpose of this workout is to go into anaerobic debt on each interval and thereby stimulate building up your anaerobic capacity. This can also help somewhat with strength and speed tolerance. Moderate recoveries (say, 3+min for a 400m etc) are used to allow time to clear the lactic acid from your system and get HR back near baseline in order to be able to repeat the effort in the next interval. Comparing a 400m under this strategy to a 400m under #1 above, the time will be slower. This workout will actually feel much harder on you that #1 above, because you are working your anaerobic system so hard.

3) 400m-3000m intervals with short recoveries:

The purpose of this workout is to give your body an extended period of time at the very upper limits of your aerobic zone. This is probably also the best way to develop speed tolerance for 5K-10K paced races. This is the only one of the three types where your recovery will be shorter than your intervals. For example, I run 800m intervals in 2:22-2:30 avg depending on conditioning but only jog recover 90sec. Sets will also be longer than the other two types. (I do 8-10X800 or 6-8X1000 typically). The short recoveries bring you back just enough to be able to go out and do the next interval just as fast, or slightly faster than, the previous one (if you lose the ability to hit your target in the middle of the set, start slower the next time!). Using this strategy, you spend the whole workout at a very high aerobic capacity, with each interval inching you closer and closer to anaerobic. Due to the constant demand, this is probably the most demanding of the types. Say you run a 5K in 16:00. While races are always good for development, you will rely heavily on the anaerobic component in the end stages of the race so you expose your body to high-end aerobic effort less than that 17:00. However, say you do 8X800 in 2:30 avg with 90sec recoveries. That workout will take you 32 minutes to complete, and the only time you tap anaerobic is if you try to blow out the last interval fast. You've just gotten yourself nearly twice the amount of time at sustained high-end aerobic effort! Think what that does for your development and the ability to hold high-end aerobic paces in your next race.

When to use them?

The bulk of my speed workouts are #3. I will use #2 as a sharpening tool 2-3 times going into a key race under 10K. The only time I have used #1 post-college was when I was picked to run an 800m leg at the USATF Indoor Championships on a distance medley relay team. It only took 3 weeks of doing two #1 workouts per week to find speed I hadn't known I had since high school. #1 gives up its gains in just a few weeks. #2 takes a bit longer. I've successfully continued to gain by #3 for up to 4 months. But they should be ideally applied in the reverse order (#3 followed by #2 then #1 time-wise).

How far?

When using #3, I suggest those newer to intervals start out at 2 miles of total intervals and work their way up. A well-conditioned and relatively quick runner should be able to get in 4 miles of these intervals in a session (not counting recoveries). When I was peaking out I could get 5 miles of intervals in a workout but I would not recommend that unless you are winning races and runnin 90+ mpw. I have experimented with longer intervals, all the way up to 3200m. 3X3200m with 5min recovery is a great workout but the pace is getting too slow to consider it in any of the groupings above. The two last interval workouts I ran before my 10K PR were 4X2000m then 3X3000m workouts at 10K goal pace. I always dreamed of running 3X5000m with 7min recovery in 16:00 or faster but it never worked out.

 

[nicky]

I do swimming and interval running (30 mins, run 30 seconds, walk 1 minute) and commute 30 mins each way to work by bike.

 

[estibador]

I hate plain cardio. I'm like a dog - if there isn't a ball for me to chase I'm not really interested.

I live with my bro though and our place is within walking distance of a park in one direction and some tennis courts in the other, so I get plenty of cardio just from kicking the footy or having a hit of tennis (badly).

I'm retired from footy thanks to knee problems but my bro still plays so I've turned our kick to kick sessions into a form of HIIT. I lead out at him as fast as my crook knees will allow and then walk back while he resets. He gets to practice his kicking to a lead (he's ultra-perfectionist about that s**t) and I get a decent cardio workout without getting bored - win/win.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Sometimes supplement strength training with cardio (running for me), subject to time constraints.

Drains every inch of energy out of you nicely at the end of a workout.

 

[saj_21]

From Jason Ferruggia's Renegade Fitness site, he is big on intense short session cardio work more so with kettlebells, bodyweight/free weight exercises.......but this is worth a read;

http://jasonferruggia.com/speed-martin-rooney-sprint/

 

[Legendairy]

My preseason running is intense

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

For cardio, do the intensity and frequency similar to that of the sport which you play (if you play a sport that is). E.g., if you play a sport which requires quick bursts of running, then do cardio similar to that. If your sport is mainly long distance running, then do aerobic exercise of long distance.

 

[Shinboner '07]

I just find cardio really ******* boring at the gym. Footy training is my cardio. I probably should do more cardio in the offseason but meh..

 

[Legendairy]

if i want to bulk can i still do my intense running?

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

if i want to bulk can i still do my intense running?

That would depend on how intense your running is. Marathon runners would have a hard time bulking up, while sprinters are able to bulk up "easily".

 

[Legendairy]

That would depend on how intense your running is. Marathon runners would have a hard time bulking up, while sprinters are able to bulk up "easily".

well i do running 3-4 times a week ill do a lot of sprint time works and then some days i'll run like 20 laps around a football oval, but i'm on a bulk atm and on my intense running days i eat 300-400 more calories on top of my bulk is this fine?

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

well i do running 3-4 times a week ill do a lot of sprint time works and then some days i'll run like 20 laps around a football oval, but i'm on a bulk atm and on my intense running days i eat 300-400 more calories on top of my bulk is this fine?

For footy, sprinting is good. 20 laps continuously (I presume) is not necessarily a good thing for footy training, as a footy player would never have to run that far without stopping, and at a constant speed. If it is done in intervals, with sprints, then it can be good. I'm not sure about nutrition things though, however I'm sure someone else here can fill you in on that.

 

[Legendairy]

For footy, sprinting is good. 20 laps continuously (I presume) is not necessarily a good thing for footy training, as a footy player would never have to run that far without stopping, and at a constant speed. If it is done in intervals, with sprints, then it can be good. I'm not sure about nutrition things though, however I'm sure someone else here can fill you in on that.

nah not at once, more of a time trial so i do 5 sets of 4 laos around a footy oval, so 1 set is about 1.8km and i try to get complete it in about 7-9 minutes, it's more of a 70-80% run with 3 minute breaks in between sets

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

nah not at once, more of a time trial so i do 5 sets of 4 laos around a footy oval, so 1 set is about 1.8km and i try to get complete it in about 7-9 minutes, it's more of a 70-80% run with 3 minute breaks in between sets

That's alright then.

 

[Legendairy]

That's alright then.

so my bulk diet on my weight training days and no cardio other then a little bit of bike is abour 3000-3100 calories so on my intense running days should i eat about 3400 calories to make up for the burned off calories.?

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

so my bulk diet on my weight training days and no cardio other then a little bit of bike is abour 3000-3100 calories so on my intense running days should i eat about 3400 calories to make up for the burned off calories.?

Like I said before, I don't know much about nutrition to give you an informed decision.

 

[saj_21]

so my bulk diet on my weight training days and no cardio other then a little bit of bike is abour 3000-3100 calories so on my intense running days should i eat about 3400 calories to make up for the burned off calories.?

Mate you are 15, and with the amount of exercise you have detailed in other threads......eat as much food as you can! (good healthy fresh food, not maccas, kfc etc)

With such amount of cardio gaining some size will be harder, have a look at sprinters 100m-400m have a look at their size vs distance runner who 3000m+ have a look at the different body shapes. Not to say a distance runner couldn't put on size but it is a lot more difficult and they would have to reduce the amount of distance running they do.

When do you start pre season with your club?

Personally if i was you, i would hold off on the all steady state cardio for 6-8 weeks and work on the gym and restrict your cardio to high intensity interval training, so 10-20 mins of 30 seconds sprint 30 seconds of walking, 30 seconds of sprint etc. This will help build muscle. Then maybe 4 weeks before you start pre season training at your club look at introducing some more distance running.

I use to start distance running to build up fitness for pre season, now i delay my distance running and actually use pre season to get fit, i find if i start running in October, come February i'm over it already.

 

[Legendairy]

Mate you are 15, and with the amount of exercise you have detailed in other threads......eat as much food as you can! (good healthy fresh food, not maccas, kfc etc)

With such amount of cardio gaining some size will be harder, have a look at sprinters 100m-400m have a look at their size vs distance runner who 3000m+ have a look at the different body shapes. Not to say a distance runner couldn't put on size but it is a lot more difficult and they would have to reduce the amount of distance running they do.

When do you start pre season with your club?

Personally if i was you, i would hold off on the all steady state cardio for 6-8 weeks and work on the gym and restrict your cardio to high intensity interval training, so 10-20 mins of 30 seconds sprint 30 seconds of walking, 30 seconds of sprint etc. This will help build muscle. Then maybe 4 weeks before you start pre season training at your club look at introducing some more distance running.

I use to start distance running to build up fitness for pre season, now i delay my distance running and actually use pre season to get fit, i find if i start running in October, come February i'm over it already.

6 weeks i start

 

[saj_21]

6 weeks i start

Its your call, personally i would just stick with HIIT running and then start longer distance running when pre season starts. Will give you 6 weeks to maximise gains.

 

[saj_21]

6 weeks i start

Its your call, personally i would just stick with HIIT running and then start longer distance running when pre season starts. Will give you 6 weeks to maximise gains.

 

[Legendairy]

Its your call, personally i would just stick with HIIT running and then start longer distance running when pre season starts. Will give you 6 weeks to maximise gains.

yea but i want to come back to pre christmas preseason and smash all the running sessions, i'm only doing it about 3-4 times a week and i'm lifting about 5-6 times a week and im using progressive overload so i am getting stronger in my lifts

 

[saj_21]

yea but i want to come back to pre christmas preseason and smash all the running sessions, i'm only doing it about 3-4 times a week and i'm lifting about 5-6 times a week and im using progressive overload so i am getting stronger in my lifts

Fair enough, i can remember being 15 and heading into pre season i would just run and run, i did love it. Now (being 27) i am really over running at the moment. If you are getting stronger then keep going, but your gains won't be as good.

 

[Legendairy]

Fair enough, i can remember being 15 and heading into pre season i would just run and run, i did love it. Now (being 27) i am really over running at the moment. If you are getting stronger then keep going, but your gains won't be as good.

my gains should be ok wont it? ill just eat more the days i run, lol