No Opposition Supporters All Things Essendon* - Carlton Posters ONLY!

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Thrawn

Hall of Famer
Jul 21, 2001
32,400
23,841
Melbourne, Australia.
AFL Club
Carlton
'member when * supporters used the excuse of WADA not going over the top because:

- WADA don't have enough finances to appeal a case of this magnitude.

- ASADA really had nothing and got it all wrong, WADA are going to slap them.

- WADA doesn't care about the AFL because it has no huge role in world sport, it's a backwater so why should they care eh.

- The public have moved on and don't want this to go on further.

- WADA knew it was some conspiracy with Vlad and Essendon haters out to get us because they're jealous of us and WE LOVE HIRDY!!

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Funk

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 6, 2015
7,512
18,147
AFL Club
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I've read a lot on this saga over the past 6.5 years, but this report from Georgia Comensoli tonight is possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from the media. Not even Mick Warner said this means they 'technically didn't do anything wrong', then she starts rabbiting on about suing for lost earnings. The media wonder why nobody respects them...

Chris.

I don’t have the background nor the time to get my head around the details on this.

I really appreciate your contributions.

Please keep them coming.
 

agro

Premiership Player
Jun 7, 2003
3,696
7,824
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Well, it is said that game was the catalyst for the supplements program. If there's one thing that absolutely can't be tolerated in * land, it's getting flogged by Carlton in a final. Something drastic had to be done. Whatever it takes.

The rest is history...

Strange that about 6 months later pretty much the same teams ran out on the MCG and the Drug Cheats managed a 15 goal turn around.

They still can’t tell us what drugs they took, but they know they weren’t illegal.

:rolleyes:

What was Sam Lonergan on that day as he rode Andrew Carrazzo into the turf and smashed his shoulder?


They are a bunch of stinking Drug Cheats that got off very lightly and were then rewarded with a number one draft pick.

Disgraceful.
 

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Blue Pulse

Club Legend
Mar 19, 2014
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Loss of income, pretty sure they were all still getting paid, with bonuses to ensure they stayed with the club. They would have lost individual sponsorship deals and I would love to know which year Jab Watson was given his ambassador role at *FC. The players are innocent/naive with regards to believing that the club was doing the right thing by the ASADA code so if they want to sue someone, it should be the club.

And the drug in question was banned in 2010.ffs which bit of that do they not understand.

But the players never tested positive, nor did Ben Cousins, Chad Fletcher and a fair few of the other Eagle players.
 

agro

Premiership Player
Jun 7, 2003
3,696
7,824
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Loss of income, pretty sure they were all still getting paid, with bonuses to ensure they stayed with the club. They would have lost individual sponsorship deals and I would love to know which year Jab Watson was given his ambassador role at *FC. The players are innocent/naive with regards to believing that the club was doing the right thing by the ASADA code so if they want to sue someone, it should be the club.

And the drug in question was banned in 2010.ffs which bit of that do they not understand.

But the players never tested positive, nor did Ben Cousins, Chad Fletcher and a fair few of the other Eagle players.

And wasn’t Golden Balls Hird “penalised” with an all expenses paid year long trip to the Fontainebleau Business School :rolleyes:
 

Funk

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 6, 2015
7,512
18,147
AFL Club
Carlton
And reportedly received his contracted $1 million coach payment.
Players did well out of it too (other than the potential health effects of a systematic undocumented injection regime).

Got all their pay.

Had a year off

Received additional undisclosed “damages” payments which conveniently were outside TPP - therefore could be manipulated by * to expand their Salary Cap.
 

MightyMighties

All Australian
Dec 16, 2015
702
1,561
AFL Club
Carlton
Players did well out of it too (other than the potential health effects of a systematic undocumented injection regime).

Got all their pay.

Had a year off

Received additional undisclosed “damages” payments which conveniently were outside TPP - therefore could be manipulated by * to expand their Salary Cap.
I think they call that “hush money”.
 

fmurphy30

Draftee
Jan 1, 2019
6
73
AFL Club
Carlton
Sorry guys, I don't post much but this issue gets my goat and there are a few things I want to get off my chest. Please bear with me for a long post.

The delusion around the Essendon thing really gets me...

The H/Sun needs to stop sending out feeders for their sponsorship dollars and accept the facts. There is no conspiracy against the EFC and the players were not set up or hard done by. There was a good article from Greg Baum in The Age about the recent crap the H/Sun ran with. In effect, Baum commented that the drugs were banned at the time they were taken and only moved onto the published list for all to see just prior to the scandal. That meant their absence prior to the listing made them no less banned and EFC knows it.

Then The Advertiser follows up with a Graham Cornes special celebrating Bruce Francis...

Bruce Francis. Is there a greater self-fornicator in the history of this saga? The guy is so deluded and unhinged it is embarrassing. Even EFC stopped returning his calls and then (according to him) they were part of the "conspiracy". He likes to declare his independence but fails to mention he is Alan Hird's mate and Hird is desperate to make up with his estranged son. Somehow he thinks saying every stupid thing that comes into his head to the media will help with this.

I've read as widely as possible on this thing and its amazing how much gets lost. We should have a FAQ for the deluded on BF.

Were EFC ripped off by the AFL?

Ummm. No. The AFL and ASADA made mistakes. This is true. ASADA's were often due to a lack of funding and a lack of diplomacy. The AFL's were in trying to protect EFC from itself. EFC were found, on balance, to have used TB4. Francis recently got on his high horse about McDevitt saying there was an admission on this and he sought these documents from ASADA under FOI. Nothing there. Why not? Cornes says conspiracy but the simple explanation was Dank admitted this to The Age before it all became a story. This was the story he threatened to sue over. ASADA doesn't have the material, it is in the public domain!

What did EFC do?

More crack than Harlem by the look of it. TB4 was the smoking gun because they had 34 who had signed a form saying they used it AND remembered in interviews having used it or discussing using it. Any player who didn't do both (sign the form AND remember its use) wasn't charged.

Let's not forget there were about 13 drugs linked with the club and NO records. It was an "experiment" according to Ziggy (in the famous in-house EFC report, never released because it was too damning). What does any scientist do when conducting an experiment? Keep records. Where were the records? Sorry, it's the ol' 'dog ate my homework' defence. And they were serious with this! It doesn't work for 4th graders but the world is expected to accept this? Joke.

What about the Mexican drug? Remember that? Left by a muscular dystrophy patient at the clinic used by Dank off site to 'treat' players. The drug promotes muscle growth. Dank found it and randomly jabbed it into who knows at the club. Nothing to see here?

What about AOD-9604? It was banned. EFC got off on a technicality. Dank sent an email to ASADA with a number of drugs he wanted to use. AOD on this list. ASADA employee confirms the most prominent of the listed items was okay, but remains silent on the others. Dank replies with something to the effect of "Thanks for confirming all listed items are okay". He knew what he was doing and ASADA dropped the ball. They could had prosecuted on this (and probably won under 'strict liability') but the outrage from the public would have been used. None of the EFC nuffies comment on this!

Did Demetriou commit a crime?

Likely no, but Hird is desperate to have him put away. I have no doubt Demetriou tipped off his mate (Evans) about the investigation and urged him to go public to save face. This isn't illegal unless Demetriou was given confidential information from authorities that EFC was the culprit. He wasn't (at least not explicitly). If anyone recalls, he asked the question in a meeting with the brass and was told (by Andruska IIRC) "Say no more".

This is not an admission. Not technically. Therefore, he wasn't breaking the law with his (likely similarly cryptic) admissions to Evans. Was it sleazy? Hell yeah. It doesn't put him behind bars though.

Is Hird a cheat?

Some may disagree with me on this, but I think probably no. Not in the outrageous sense of him setting out to do so. He was no victim. He had knowledge of AOD through Evans and invested in the product IIRC. He wanted a sports science program that was cutting edge and he went off the deep end when it went pear shaped.

I think Hird's greatest sin was pride. He is a high achiever and wanted to be successful. Personally, I didn't think he was much of a coach but according to EFC supporters he was the next Jock McHale (or Sheedy in their lingo). I think he stretched what they were doing and turned a blind eye hoping it would all pay off. When it went south, he went into protection mode and pointed the finger at everyone. Hird suffers from the same thing a lot of ex-footy greats do - they get used to having their butts kissed and come to accept it. When the music stopped, Hirdy didn't like being the one without a chair.

I am very curious as to what he was taking when Charters was his personal coach and he won the Brownlow. Same 'supplements' as Woewodin I suppose...

FWIW, I think Thompson, who has his drug problems, was likely one of the ones who was pretty clean. It's clear he stopped the program and didn't approve of it (yeah, yeah, I know. The Geelong thing).

There are no positive tests, they are not guilty!

There was no test for TB4 at the time. If sports bodies could only convict based on positive tests, no cyclist would likely ever be convicted. Drugs use in sport is an arms race. The ones who do it successfully find ways around detection and constantly strive to find new ways to get ahead and get away with it.

Tests aside, there is a truckload of anecdotal, interview and other evidence to convict the players. The most damning evidence is the absence of any testing records for an experimental program! Why? I have it on pretty good authority EFC were told (by the AFL) to dispose of it. I think this is why Dank wanted to go to court. He thought all this would come out. Almost everyone was dirty to some degree on this and many EFC supporters seemed to use this to argue the Cranberries defence ('Everybody else is doing it, so why can't we' - great album). Umm. No. EFC guilty. I won't waste time going over records etc. But you can't get off because you think others are doing drugs too (I'm looking at you Melbourne - being a basket case saved you big time). EFC guilty.

Why 'not guilty' in Australia and 'guilty' overseas?

Not a conspiracy. Arguably both were the correct verdict (as hard as that is to believe). In Australia, we have common law called the Briginshaw Test. In layman's terms, it means the more serious the alleged misdeed, the higher the onus of proof for the accuser. This put all the onus on ASADA to establish EFC cheated. This is difficult to do with no positive tests. This gave rise to the 'links in a chain' claim. The absence of the positive test 'link' meant failure of the ASADA argument. Also the court ruled (probably fairly) The Age article with Dank was inadmissible.

Overseas, WADA (correctly) argued if Briginshaw were used for sport no one would ever be convicted. This was accepted (as was The Age article). Based on the 'strands in a cable' approach (some fray but the majority stay strong), EFC was guilty.

Were the players in on it?

This is maybe the hardest one. I tend to think not, but this doesn't make them innocent. There had to be a 'buy in' of some description (the Zaharakis story of being banished for not being one of the boys might give credence to this) and I think it mighty strange not ONE player told his manager. Not ONE! Why not? Surely a player manager gets concerned and blows the whistle? That worries me.

Why didn't Watson (a fine player and person) question this thing harder? You don't go from 0 jabs a year to hundreds like that. I believe him when he says he did question, but I bet he lies awake at night and asks himself "Did I do enough?" He should. They all should. I am not without sympathy but them's the rules. They took the poison, they take the pain.

The above spiel is a vastly over simplified explanation, but one none of the papers have ever bothered to even do that. Mainly because they don't understand it.
 

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