No Oppo Supporters Essendon* - 6900 & Beyond - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Would be nice to see someone subpoena Dank in an actual court of law, and some others.

 

[Malifice]

spot on B_B - cases will be virtually impossible to prove and any defence lawyer will have a pretty easy time of it - Malifice ? your take?

Its deinately possible but there are difficulties. Think back to the Asbestos cases.

Main issues being 'causation' (proving the jabs caused the medical problems) and 'reasonable foreseeability' (proving that it was reasonably forseeable by an objective person in the position of Essendon at the time of the jabs, that the jabs could potentially affect the players kids).

 

[thylacine60]

How will anyone know either way?

 

[mediumsizered]

This is why the cover up was instigated in the first place & will continue indefinitely. If no-one knows what they were given, they cannot relate any side effects/ongoing medical issues to the doping program.

 

[happydude]

What does the tweet say my computer at work wont load it

If NLM is using his child as leverage for a big payout, then it's a pretty lousy thing to do.
There will be plenty wanting to make good out of what was a bad situation and some may applaud that, but if the shoe was on the other foot, they wouldn't like it, themselves.

This is why the cover up was instigated in the first place & will continue indefinitely. If no-one knows what they were given, they cannot relate any side effects/ongoing medical issues to the doping program.

And thats where the complexity of the issue really starts.

If a few * players that have kids all have similar problems ( I really hope it doesnt happen) then there is no hiding from the common link

 

[Jabba73]

Don't be too quick to swallow up anything the HS (publications) may dish up.



If NLM is using his child as leverage for a big payout, then it's a pretty lousy thing to do.
There will be plenty wanting to make good out of what was a bad situation and some may applaud that, but if the shoe was on the other foot, they wouldn't like it, themselves.

Read back through my statements since the story first broke. The only people I have had sympathy for are the families of the * players. This was always a possible outcome of pharmaceutical experiments on humans.

I take no comfort from a predicted outcome becoming a possible reality, it was the thing I feared most.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I'd like to see some actual evidence of a link before I blame Essendon. I know NLM is VERY bitter about what happened there (understandably so obviously)

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

This is why the cover up was instigated in the first place & will continue indefinitely. If no-one knows what they were given, they cannot relate any side effects/ongoing medical issues to the doping program.

We know that whatever Jimmy took gave him a stiffy!

 

[mediumsizered]

Maybe, but NLM's other claims may be true.
Being branded a cheat is not something I'd be happy about, nor suffering personal issues because of a program imposed upon me.

This won't go away any time soon as all sorts of 'issues' will front up.
Will make for interesting listening/viewing.

The problem for the players, as Hal Hunter has already found out, is that they will come up against a brick wall should they seek relevant medical information to assist in taking action against the club for any medical issues players believe may be related to the doping program.

The EFC will do no favors for the players & the AFL will back the EFC to the hilt.

 

[Jimmae]

This is an extremely long bow to draw given the nature of what they were believed to have been taking. If it were the mother, and it had generated a prolonged effect during term, then you would have cause for serious alarm.

Dank was supposedly trying to boost testosterone and growth hormone levels in a performance enhancing way that did not breach WADA guidelines, essentially to guide the body to help itself better. For it to have an effect like NLM, there would have to be an alarming disruption of those levels.

Where Dank went horribly wrong was that he thought he could do a branch of medicine that doesn't really exist yet, in his head (or with relatively simple notes that have since vanished), and without anywhere near enough medical and scientific training. He then let his ego start to dictate what was appropriate conduct and care.

Once the program was pulled, players were definitely going to feel after-effects, likely affecting mood and libido, but fertility issues 12 months on? The drug testing would have flagged those kinds of levels instantly.

 

[Arr0w]

The truth does have a way of finding its way out of the mire.
Wouldn't take much for the right person to come out, by way of guilt, money, opportunity, ego, to open things up again.

It may not happen but if the door was opened up even a little?

Too many inflated egos for that too happen

 

[Beer n Skittles]

This is an extremely long bow to draw given the nature of what they were believed to have been taking. If it were the mother, and it had generated a prolonged effect during term, then you would have cause for serious alarm.

Dank was supposedly trying to boost testosterone and growth hormone levels in a performance enhancing way that did not breach WADA guidelines, essentially to guide the body to help itself better. For it to have an effect like NLM, there would have to be an alarming disruption of those levels.

Where Dank went horribly wrong was that he thought he could do a branch of medicine that doesn't really exist yet, in his head (or with relatively simple notes that have since vanished), and without anywhere near enough medical and scientific training. He then let his ego start to dictate what was appropriate conduct and care.

Once the program was pulled, players were definitely going to feel after-effects, likely affecting mood and libido, but fertility issues 12 months on? The drug testing would have flagged those kinds of levels instantly.

What levels would they need to have boosted those growth hormones to for it to have an effect on his daughter?

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

This is an extremely long bow to draw given the nature of what they were believed to have been taking. If it were the mother, and it had generated a prolonged effect during term, then you would have cause for serious alarm.

Dank was supposedly trying to boost testosterone and growth hormone levels in a performance enhancing way that did not breach WADA guidelines, essentially to guide the body to help itself better. For it to have an effect like NLM, there would have to be an alarming disruption of those levels.

Where Dank went horribly wrong was that he thought he could do a branch of medicine that doesn't really exist yet, in his head (or with relatively simple notes that have since vanished), and without anywhere near enough medical and scientific training. He then let his ego start to dictate what was appropriate conduct and care.

Once the program was pulled, players were definitely going to feel after-effects, likely affecting mood and libido, but fertility issues 12 months on? The drug testing would have flagged those kinds of levels instantly.

Not to mention the massive gap in logic/evidence between dad taking something shitty and passing on problems via procreation. They weren't undergoing gene therapy.....although I think there is some evidence linking long term occupational exposure to solvents to poor pregnancy outcomes.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

This is an extremely long bow to draw given the nature of what they were believed to have been taking. If it were the mother, and it had generated a prolonged effect during term, then you would have cause for serious alarm.

Dank was supposedly trying to boost testosterone and growth hormone levels in a performance enhancing way that did not breach WADA guidelines, essentially to guide the body to help itself better. For it to have an effect like NLM, there would have to be an alarming disruption of those levels.

Where Dank went horribly wrong was that he thought he could do a branch of medicine that doesn't really exist yet, in his head (or with relatively simple notes that have since vanished), and without anywhere near enough medical and scientific training. He then let his ego start to dictate what was appropriate conduct and care.

Once the program was pulled, players were definitely going to feel after-effects, likely affecting mood and libido, but fertility issues 12 months on? The drug testing would have flagged those kinds of levels instantly.

Understand what you're saying but the fact is these drugs can do all sorts of things to humans with all sorts of different effects and part of the duty of care of Dank and Essendon would've been to monitor that. Seeing as it was a dodgy program I doubt that happened. We can't generalise the side effects for everyone.

 

[ShanDog]

Not to mention the massive gap in logic/evidence between dad taking something shitty and passing on problems via procreation. They weren't undergoing gene therapy.....although I think there is some evidence linking long term occupational exposure to solvents to poor pregnancy outcomes.

There are links between parental body chemistry and effects on foetal development. I recall reading a recent study about autism that found some interesting results regarding elevated testosterone levels. It wasn't definitive but suggested there was a significant link worth investigating.

 

[Cripps17]

I'd like to see some actual evidence of a link before I blame Essendon. I know NLM is VERY bitter about what happened there (understandably so obviously)

In any case the ultimate responsibility, if there were to be any correlation, would sit with the individual who let unknown substances be injected into their body.

 

[lily of laguna]

In any case the ultimate responsibility, if there were to be any correlation, would sit with the individual who let unknown substances be injected into their body.

Yep let the individual players take it up with *

 

[teagueyubeauty]

The worst part about this is, I can't really see the club being held at all accountable.

If a 3-4 year investigation turned up absolutely no firm evidence on what was administered, I don't know how anyone could prove in a court of law that the Essendon supplements program is to blame for an isolated incident.

If 4 or 5 player's kids were suffering from the same issues, maybe, but as a standalone case I doubt it will have a happy ending for Lovett-Murray and his family.

Probably right....but the morality of it will be a terrible terrible look

 

[Jimmae]

What levels would they need to have boosted those growth hormones to for it to have an effect on his daughter?

It comes down to the individual, but if it was going to happen in these particular contexts, it was probably going to happen to him anyway, and from this article we don't even know the extent of the behavioural problems and what that can be attributed to.

This is stuff that is under current scientific research and isn't well understood in terms of the intricacies of all the interactions involved, the pressures of parenthood aside, it's bizarre that he'd try for this kind of case.

Not to mention the massive gap in logic/evidence between dad taking something shitty and passing on problems via procreation. They weren't undergoing gene therapy.....although I think there is some evidence linking long term occupational exposure to solvents to poor pregnancy outcomes.

These would be epigenetic factors, and can definitely happen. Future gene therapy is going to be built around epigenetics for the most part.

There are links between parental body chemistry and effects on foetal development. I recall reading a recent study about autism that found some interesting results regarding elevated testosterone levels. It wasn't definitive but suggested there was a significant link worth investigating.

That's exposure in the womb, but yes, it's one of many examples that I was canvasing.

 

[Murphkreuzmitch]

Bombers stand firm in Lovett-Murray stoush



Who would have guessed?

Gil says it all, details being clouded!

Wonder if the compo falls under salary cap. Wondering how a player like Hurley or Heppel get compensated while still playing.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Would be nice to see someone subpoena Dank in an actual court of law, and some others.

Every one is too s**t scared of the outcome ..... Dank got paid off without a doubt.

 

[Styxx]

Is David Zaharakis the only person who said no at any point still at the club?

Legit only person there who I can't hate indiscriminately.

 

[bluemahogany]

Is David Zaharakis the only person who said no at any point still at the club?

Legit only person there who I can't hate indiscriminately.

Jackson Merrett and Baguely also

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Pack of filthy drug cheats

 

[agro]

Gil says it all, details being clouded!

Wonder if the compo falls under salary cap. Wondering how a player like Hurley or Heppel get compensated while still playing.

It's clear that the AFL and all the AFL media mate toadies consider a brown paper bag full of money a more serious blight on the game than a syringe full of unidentifiable poisons.