All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Kick It 2 Me]

Julie Bishop then

Ah yes, good old Julie 'Asbestos' Bishop.

 

[Dynamics]

There are no elected PM’s.
Never have been.
We elect a party to Government and they have the right to elect, or dismiss, their leader.
This is democracy in Australia.
Would love to change the model, but that’s basically a republic, and plenty don’t understand that becoming a republic is the only way for the people to elect a leader.

Consider it a poor choice of words on my part. For the second time, I am aware that we don't elect PMs. Grew up in Canberra in a family of public servants, for better or worse. Yet another PM set to be appointed who has not taken his or her party to a Federal election.

I'm very much a republican, but I'm not sure how much I favour a presidential election system myself. That said, more legislative controls to restrict the Government from changing its leader every time a sparrow farts might be a good first step.

 

[Baird]

anyone got pics of a young julie bishop?

for educational purposes, of course

 

[TKiL]

In: Morrison
Out: Turnbull

In: Democracy
Out: Compulsory voting

 

[ClaytonM]

In: Democracy
Out: Compulsory voting

There is no compulsory voting. Only compulsory attendance. Don’t have to vote, just get name marked off.

 

[TKiL]

There is no compulsory voting. Only compulsory attendance. Don’t have to vote, just get name marked off.

True - I find writing a poem (or something) on the ballot paper quite therapeutic

 

[caloschwaby]

In: Democracy
Out: Compulsory voting

Commit an indictable offence and you don't have to

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Ah yes, good old Julie 'Asbestos' Bishop.

I guess she didn't hear that people accused of dealing with asbestos aren't allowed to have legal representation.

Fair enough. Maybe all sides can't have legal representation.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Commit an indictable offence and you don't have to

Technically you just need your name ticked off the voting roll pre voting.

You can vote or leave blank in effect.

 

[caloschwaby]

Technically you just need your name ticked off the voting roll pre voting.

You can vote or leave blank in effect.

That too. Although you won't even have to turn up by committing an indictable offence

 

[Saintly Viewed]

There are no elected PM’s.
Never have been.
We elect a party to Government and they have the right to elect, or dismiss, their leader.
This is democracy in Australia.
Would love to change the model, but that’s basically a republic, and plenty don’t understand that becoming a republic is the only way for the people to elect a leader.

Technically that is not correct either.
If we changed to a republic that would not mean we are ditching our parliamentary system.
Just appointing our own head of state.
That person might just be ceremonial (most likely ie replacing the Governor General) of which there could be a direct public vote or not.

Regardless the head of state would not be gaining powers of introducing laws etc, but be ceremonial.

The prime minister and the government of the day would be the epicentre of power as they are now.

 

[TKiL]

Commit an indictable offence and you don't have to

Current bunch of politicians should be indicted

 

[Vicky Park]

A good mate of mine still has an original 'Its Time' t-shirt and a 'Jo for PM' badge. We've been known to get a bit silly and don them, after a couple of wines. Makes us laugh anyway.

 

[Vicky Park]

There is no compulsory voting. Only compulsory attendance. Don’t have to vote, just get name marked off.

I always vote in Federal and State elections, but never municipal. I mostly front up to vote to avoid a fine - although at the last local election I didn't and haven't been fined as yet - and then leave rude messages on the ballot papers.

I abhor local government, where the councillors are mainly hacks with private agendas who vote to further their own or their mates' interests. In my job I occasionally have to attend council meetings, where developments are voted on, and have witnessed the most appalling behaviour by individual councillors. In a particularly affluent eastern Melbourne council, I have seen councillors play the race game. It has put me right off. Why do we need three tiers of government in this country?

 

[ipswichpies]

Reckon she was a looker in her day, she's 62 and doesn't look a day over 45.

I know it,s a bit sexist but I agree with that and I think I would prefer her over all other options from that side of politics including Turnbull who reminds of Hawke who I disliked intensely.

 

[ottoman]

There is no compulsory voting. Only compulsory attendance. Don’t have to vote, just get name marked off.

Not even compulsory attendance.
I mentioned this before but I will tell the story again.
There was an occasion where I didn't vote.
A few months later I received a letter telling me that I would have to pay a fine unless I had a valid reason and asking me to explain why I didn't vote.
I sent the letter back with a simple explanation. "I did vote"
They can't prove you didn't. They have to assume an error was made.
Never heard another word.

 

[ipswichpies]

I always remember a quip from Gough about a former indian pm called Desai who use to drink his own urine for health purposes apparently.They were at a function somewhere and Whitlam said "come on we better get a drink before the Indians get here and get on the piss" which I thought was a very funny line and still makes me smile today.

I think if you look at both sides of politics today you could count on 1 hand how few of them could speak off the cuff and it is probably the reason why you never see them on the hustings.

 

[Maggie5]

I always vote in Federal and State elections, but never municipal. I mostly front up to vote to avoid a fine - although at the last local election I didn't and haven't been fined as yet - and then leave rude messages on the ballot papers.

I abhor local government, where the councillors are mainly hacks with private agendas who vote to further their own or their mates' interests. In my job I occasionally have to attend council meetings, where developments are voted on, and have witnessed the most appalling behaviour by individual councillors. In a particularly affluent eastern Melbourne council, I have seen councillors play the race game. It has put me right off. Why do we need three tiers of government in this country?

I loved Gough, his intelligence (and Margaret's) also his sense of humour. My favourite:

Whitlam was once persistently hectored by a man demanding to know his opinion on abortion: "Let me make quite clear that I am for abortion and, in your case Sir, we should make it retrospective!"

 

[TradeDraft]

Could you pick anyone worse to be PM?

#auspol

 

[The Dawes]

I'm not pining for the Howard years, far from it, but as time has gone by I've come to admire him for something today's politicians lack: political conviction and the willingness to stand or fall for those convictions. He took the GST to an election even though it threatened to topple his first-term government, because he thought it was the right policy for the country. In this day and age it seems that governments are not only willing to scuttle policies at the first sign of choppy waters, but sitting prime ministers as well.

can't stand Howard, but you make a good point.

 

[TradeDraft]

Rich will love that Morrison is PM.

Bad news for anyone else

 

[The Dawes]

Libs are basically split down the middle, not sure how they can move forward from here.
As Barrie Cassidy said, the real winner is Bill Shorten.

 

[Black_White]

How can you trust any of them when there are people inside the room breaking the sanctity of the Party room by texting the ABC?
ABC said they would not announce anything until they had 3 sources. So at least 3 of them, maybe more, are dirty stinking rats.

 

[ipswichpies]

John Hewson took the Gst to the federal election against Keating and lost Howard only took the GST to the people after winning office against Keating but I think in the 1st contest against Keating he said there would be no gst.
It is much different throwing out a sitting pm in his 1st term than someone like Keating who had been in power for 13 yrs already "Honest John" if he had that conviction would have fought his 1st election with the GST tax in principle as 1 of his objectives.
The only 1 who had that conviction was Hewson not Howard,probably labor under Keating would have a brought a broad based tax in anyway after Hewson,s attemp,s they would not have called a GST.

 

[JB1975]

John Hewson took the Gst to the federal election against Keating and lost Howard only took the GST to the people after winning office against Keating but I think in the 1st contest against Keating he said there would be no gst.
It is much different throwing out a sitting pm in his 1st term than someone like Keating who had been in power for 13 yrs already "Honest John" if he had that conviction would have fought his 1st election with the GST tax in principle as 1 of his objectives.
The only 1 who had that conviction was Hewson not Howard,probably labor under Keating would have a brought a broad based tax in anyway after Hewson,s attemp,s they would not have called a GST.

I agree that Hewson's tax package was gutsy. He put the details of his policies out very early, long before the election, and it was masterfully dissected and politically sunk before Australians even went to the polls. And there's no doubt that John Howard misled the electorate in 1996 in relation to his ultimate intentions, a cynical but politically prudent decision which was undoubtedly inspired by Keating's success against the 'feral abacus' (Hewson).

Nevertheless, the GST remained a deeply unpopular policy during Howard's first term. Opinion polls confirmed that it was politically toxic, but Howard still chose to argue the case for it and take it to next election. The level of risk in this decision is confirmed by the fact that the Coalition actually lost the two-party preferred vote in 1998, on the back of a policy they knew might lose them government. It was, in all, a politically brave thing to do.