All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Markfs]

Yes. Inherently evil. His actions on and off the battlefield prove it.
Was he born that way, or has our system created him?
Thats the question.
Do you have the answer?
Im just a dumb fu** who obviously doesn’t understand, even if I do.

yeh ...evil... the devil made him do it....yada yada.. he was evil at birth. Evidently he came out with horns on, but the doctors snapped them off.

 

[Markfs]

yeh i miss trump... scomo does too... both of us in mourning. I'm pretty sure that even with both of those clowns in charge, I'll die before humans go into extinction.... and after all, isnt that what matters the most?

 

[THE SALT]

Yeah, poor old Joe, boring as hell.
Theres your answer, no one wants to watch when we know that the ship is sailing on smooth waters.
Give us a borderline maniac, when no one knows just what will come from his mouth next, and it’s like watching the Kardashians. We love to watch a train wreck.
I heard that Joe was doing a national speech and I thought “isn’t it wonderful that I haven’t had to hear about what the states have been doing until now”?
The lack of outrageous comments from the White House over the last 100 days is refreshing. Having a President focused on his job and not on his profile or his bank balance. Refreshing.
This is what America voted for. And the world is thankful for each and everyone of those 81 million plus Americans.
Thank you guys.

Lol nice imagination

 

[Maggie5]

Fake President/Stolen Election Update

Considering those that support Joe are brainwashed by/spoonfed and only ones still watching MSM TV propaganda, how do you square away these numbers?

TV Ratings for Presidential Addresses:
President Trump 2017 – 48,000,000
President Trump 2018 – 46,000,000
President Trump 2019 – 46,800,000
President Trump 2020 – 37,200,000

Joe Biden 2021 – 27,000,000

That’s over a 60% decrease in viewership. No crowds ever attended his rallies. There was no crowd at his installation. There are no views for his on-line speeches. The audience for his regular speeches are non-existent. Virtually no viewers at home. An empty chamber for his speech,… and yet we are to believe he received 81 million votes. - Conservative Tree House

Just corrected your number as slightly wrong. These were the numbers and not surprisingly Fox viewers didn't tune in. Nice story though.

ABC was the most watched network Wednesday night, earning 4 million viewers, according to Nielsen data released by CNN. MSNBC fell closely behind with 3.9 million viewers, followed by NBC (3.5 million), CBS (3.4 million), CNN (3.2 million), Fox News (2.9 million) and Fox’s broadcast network (1.6 million). These ratings could reflect the networks’ ideological bent: During Trump’s address last year, right-leaning Fox News was the most watched network, and left-leaning MSNBC ranked last.


Why do you care about ratings?

 

[anshell]

They’ve got to cling to something,anything to make them think that Trump is more popular than Biden.^Opinion polls and actual election results prove differently however.

 

[HeathySure]

People watch Fox because its a train wreck. Got nothing to do with news

 

[Black_White]

Lol nice imagination

I’ve got a very good imagination.
But it pales into insignificance to the imagination of Trump followers who are easily lead into flights of fantasy.
Like “the election was stolen”. You’d have to have a magnificent imagination to believe that considering the mountain of evidence showing otherwise.

 

[Just Jimmy]

Fake President/Stolen Election Update

Considering those that support Joe are brainwashed by/spoonfed and only ones still watching MSM TV propaganda, how do you square away these numbers?

TV Ratings for Presidential Addresses:
President Trump 2017 – 48,000,000
President Trump 2018 – 46,000,000
President Trump 2019 – 46,800,000
President Trump 2020 – 37,200,000

Joe Biden 2021 – 11,600,000

That’s over a 60% decrease in viewership. No crowds ever attended his rallies. There was no crowd at his installation. There are no views for his on-line speeches. The audience for his regular speeches are non-existent. Virtually no viewers at home. An empty chamber for his speech,… and yet we are to believe he received 81 million votes. - Conservative Tree House

As expected the Democrats have gone back to sleep now that a Democrat is president.

 

[HeathySure]

As expected the Democrats have gone back to sleep now that a Democrat is president.

yeah? please explain using news sources that are not right wing biased

 

[Black_White]

yeh ...evil... the devil made him do it....yada yada.. he was evil at birth. Evidently he came out with horns on, but the doctors snapped them off.

You know nothing.
Nothing at all.
They use grinders to get rid of the horns. Snapping them off is simply inhuman.

 

[Markfs]

People watch Fox because its a train wreck. Got nothing to do with news

people of the right watch fox to see the news that they like... i dont think a lot of people can take differing opinions these days without trashing the other side.

 

[HeathySure]

Robert Doyle can go * himself. He knew exactly what he was doing and the only reason he is repentant was that he got found out. Vile human being

 

[Black_White]

Robert Doyle can go fu** himself. He knew exactly what he was doing and the only reason he is repentant was that he got found out. Vile human being

I note with interest, or disinterest, the go to line for all sexual predators in this century…. “Mental health”.
Its becoming demeaning to those who actually have a mental disability.
I think that if these people want to roll out this defence they need to show us proof.
A bit like this, but the opposite obviously…

 

[Markfs]

I note with interest, or disinterest, the go to line for all sexual predators in this century…. “Mental health”.
Its becoming demeaning to those who actually have a mental disability.
I think that if these people want to roll out this defence they need to show us proof.
A bit like this, but the opposite obviously…

I say that there are many variations of the theme. I saw an interview with holgate earlier where she was discussing the situation with a board member...i think. And they agreed that she would go on a holiday and then come back and return to work...

The whole premise is that the storm will roll through and people's indignation will only last for a finite time....the media will go to the next sensational incident..

Sometimes they use illness or something similar. Harvey Weinstein used just about everything to outlast the storm..

It's wonderful how people can be so indignant and shocked and incensed ...but only for a few days or a week.

 

[Markfs]

topic on abc radio in perth this afternoon. it hasn't got directly to do with politics but i think it says something about the debate.

a lot of people called in and messaged in and said that they had a number of topics that they didnt discuss with their closest friends and family, for the sake of maintaining the relationship.

i'm not surprised and i think the end result of avoiding confrontation is to seek out people with similar attitudes. It doesnt surprise me that society is getting more polarised... In another thread I said that people should just walk away from a lot of the left wing debates because someone will say that you cant have an opinion on issues that dont relate to you. Of course, no one can stop a person from having an opinion, even if they dont tell anyone. I think its become easier and easier to keep my mouth shut these days, because I dont see the point of discussing issues seriously anymore.

 

[Markfs]

morrison sent his sympathies to israel last week for the 45 deaths last week. However, he hasnt said a word about israel and what has been happening in jerusalem and gaza in the last few days. Many more have died, including a few israelis, but not a word for morrison.

 

[Markfs]

in fairness, i should update my post. Morrison today did refer to the gaza situation today and said australia shouldnt import the tensions, which is obviously directed to one side of the argument, who have a little more freedom to act than what they do back in the old "country". He also indicated broadly that he supported a two-state solution but he probably feels that he will be long gone by the time the alternative will be a fait accompli. I dont see why we cant be more independent in the world. I would have thought that the last year has taught us that a little more self-reliance and a little less globalisation, might deliver a slightly poorer outcome to this country but if we spread things a bit more even, there's enough to go around. End of idealistic crap....

 

[Markfs]

Following on from my previous posts, I noticed that Bella Hadid has made some statements and even marched in support of Palestine. It is true that her father is Palestinian, it takes some guts to do what she is doing. Evidently she doesnt care if she works less in the modelling and entertainment industry in the future. I dont think that i'm overstating it when I say that she might have to be a little more careful with her security in the future...

And this from the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council

"The Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) today welcomed and endorsed a statement made by Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison that Israel has the right to defend itself against ongoing Hamas attacks.

Israel has faced an unprecedented barrage of nearly 2000 missile attacks from Hamas in Gaza this week. The attacks have left seven Israelis dead and nearly 400 injured according to Israel’s emergency service Magen David Adom.

Speaking in Sydney today, Prime Minister Morrison expressed his personal concern about the security situation.

He said: “Israel unquestionably has the right to defend itself and its people, unquestionably.

Our friends in Israel are at the mercy of this terrorist organisation that is not only killing and injuring innocent Israelis, but through its own incompetence, murdering and harming innocent Palestinians. Nearly one-third of all missiles fired by Hamas have fallen within the Gaza Strip.”

You would think Morrison would sanction Hamas for murdering the palestinians..... this reminds me of an old fable about the king's new clothes.

 

[ZEV]

Following on from my previous posts, I noticed that Bella Hadid has made some statements and even marched in support of Palestine. It is true that her father is Palestinian, it takes some guts to do what she is doing. Evidently she doesnt care if she works less in the modelling and entertainment industry in the future. I dont think that i'm overstating it when I say that she might have to be a little more careful with her security in the future...

As an Australian Jew I fully support the concept of a free Palestine and an Israel/Palestine/Judea/Greater Syria free from violence, oppression, hatred and fear.

I do think the Israeli government's response to Bella Hadid's actions are an overreaction but I can see their point of view that by not condemning Hamas she might be promoting their message. However like all nations, governments tend not to be all that in tune with the views of their citizens and I think it would be best to support her promotion of peace rather than focus on what was not said and draw conclusions from that.

 

[Markfs]

As an Australian Jew I fully support the concept of a free Palestine and an Israel/Palestine/Judea/Greater Syria free from violence, oppression, hatred and fear.

I do think the Israeli government's response to Bella Hadid's actions are an overreaction but I can see their point of view that by not condemning Hamas she might be promoting their message. However like all nations, governments tend not to be all that in tune with the views of their citizens and I think it would be best to support her promotion of peace rather than focus on what was not said and draw conclusions from that.

I dont disagree with much of what you write. I read the israeli gov't comments on hadid before I read what she wrote. I was expecting her message to be about justifying the rockets. Overreaction by the israeli gov't is one way to put it.

I'm glad that you support a palestinian state. I realise that a few million people are encircled by arab states and i understand the unease that would promote, even in the most peace-loving community. However, the peace-loving people in gaza must also feel unease about the unlikelihood of a palestinian state with the longterm situation on its current trajectory.

You indicate that Hadid might have needed to condemn Hamas for firing their rockets. I'm sure she would have felt it almost obligatory to also condemn Israel for targeting missiles on residential areas in gaza. I dont think you can have one without the other.

Israel's position is that Hamas and Gaza have to throw down their weapons and hope for israel to proceed to a 2 state solution. The Palestinian Authority has been benign for more than a decade - by my uneducated view - but israel settlers are taking over west bank land at an increasing rate. You have to ask what kind of message that is giving to all palestinians...least of all those in Gaza.

 

[ZEV]

I dont disagree with much of what you write. I read the israeli gov't comments on hadid before I read what she wrote. I was expecting her message to be about justifying the rockets. Overreaction by the israeli gov't is one way to put it.

I'm glad that you support a palestinian state. I realise that a few million people are encircled by arab states and i understand the unease that would promote, even in the most peace-loving community. However, the peace-loving people in gaza must also feel unease about the unlikelihood of a palestinian state with the longterm situation on its current trajectory.

You indicate that Hadid might have needed to condemn Hamas for firing their rockets. I'm sure she would have felt it almost obligatory to also condemn Israel for targeting missiles on residential areas in gaza. I dont think you can have one without the other.

Israel's position is that Hamas and Gaza have to throw down their weapons and hope for israel to proceed to a 2 state solution. The Palestinian Authority has been benign for more than a decade - by my uneducated view - but israel settlers are taking over west bank land at an increasing rate. You have to ask what kind of message that is giving to all palestinians...least of all those in Gaza.

Overreaction is the standard response from the Israeli government.

My heart genuinely breaks and I feel a deep and immense sadness for the people of Gaza. They are the most vulnerable victims and innocent pawns being used by an Iranian and Qatari backed terrorist organisation that has been hell bent on the destruction of the Jewish people.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about my position on Bella Hadid's comments. She has the absolute right to say what she wants and I admire and respect her stance.

The West Bank is such a complicated mess. I'm not at all comfortable about the Israeli government's actions there but I get a headache trying to process the whole situation there.

Gaza is pretty simple and tragic. It's people will continue to be victims until Hamas is gone. Hamas is not interested in the freedom of Palestinians, only their exploitation to help them achieve their goal of destroying the jewish people.

 

[Markfs]

Overreaction is the standard response from the Israeli government.

My heart genuinely breaks and I feel a deep and immense sadness for the people of Gaza. They are the most vulnerable victims and innocent pawns being used by an Iranian and Qatari backed terrorist organisation that has been hell bent on the destruction of the Jewish people.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about my position on Bella Hadid's comments. She has the absolute right to say what she wants and I admire and respect her stance.

The West Bank is such a complicated mess. I'm not at all comfortable about the Israeli government's actions there but I get a headache trying to process the whole situation there.

Gaza is pretty simple and tragic. It's people will continue to be victims until Hamas is gone. Hamas is not interested in the freedom of Palestinians, only their exploitation to help them achieve their goal of destroying the jewish people.

Its interesting how australia supported their govts when the virus came and the country and the various states were isolated.

In some ways it reflects what has happened in Gaza where Israel has effectively made it a jail.... a compound isolated from the outside world....with the people inside it depended on hamas to provide for their basic needs. I understand the politics of the middle east are complicated and various outside groups support the palestinians for their own purposes. I also understand that various arab countries have done deals with Israel to serve their own needs. I'm not sure if any of that justifies the type of destruction being undertaken by the israelis on the civilians in gaza.

You will notice the press statement from AIJAC that i have printed above. The quote in bold reflects their laughable reason for the deaths in gaza. The fact that this group has significant lobbying power with the australian gov't worries me.

The other aspect that should worry a lot of people around the world is that the current prime minister of israel has been charged with corruption and was in the process of losing govt in that country, until he initiated this current conflict in jerusalem. The fact that he now enjoys support in israel only reflects the support hamas has got from the people of gaza in the last 15 years since gaza was isolated from the outside world. It seems that starting a war is good if you want to get support of the people.

I've no doubt that the people in charge of israel would be quite willing to obliterate gaza completely if they could do it without losing the support of countries like Australia. Of all the 150 odd countries in the world, I have no idea why we have picked israel in its current form, to negotiate a free trade agreement with. Our PM reminds palestinians here that they shouldnt import their conflict into this country. I would like to remind him to do the same and put his responsibility for this country ahead of his other ties.

 

[ZEV]

Its interesting how australia supported their govts when the virus came and the country and the various states were isolated.

In some ways it reflects what has happened in Gaza where Israel has effectively made it a jail.... a compound isolated from the outside world....with the people inside it depended on hamas to provide for their basic needs. I understand the politics of the middle east are complicated and various outside groups support the palestinians for their own purposes. I also understand that various arab countries have done deals with Israel to serve their own needs. I'm not sure if any of that justifies the type of destruction being undertaken by the israelis on the civilians in gaza.

You will notice the press statement from AIJAC that i have printed above. The quote in bold reflects their laughable reason for the deaths in gaza. The fact that this group has significant lobbying power with the australian gov't worries me.

The other aspect that should worry a lot of people around the world is that the current prime minister of israel has been charged with corruption and was in the process of losing govt in that country, until he initiated this current conflict in jerusalem. The fact that he now enjoys support in israel only reflects the support hamas has got from the people of gaza in the last 15 years since gaza was isolated from the outside world. It seems that starting a war is good if you want to get support of the people.

I've no doubt that the people in charge of israel would be quite willing to obliterate gaza completely if they could do it without losing the support of countries like Australia. Of all the 150 odd countries in the world, I have no idea why we have picked israel in its current form, to negotiate a free trade agreement with. Our PM reminds palestinians here that they shouldnt import their conflict into this country. I would like to remind him to do the same and put his responsibility for this country ahead of his other ties.

There is definitely some similarities between the pandemic response and the Gaza situation and it's a pretty good way of getting an understanding of the situation between both sides.

I think the most important concept to grasp is that Hamas has little interest in the welfare of the Palestinians under it's tyranny.

I'm not sure what you mean by the laughable reason? Can you clarify that part? Unfortunately Israel is in an unenviable situation and there is no easy or palatable answer.

I can't really comment on what the Israeli leadership would want, nor do I have a vote in the matter, but by that same measure have you read the charter of Hamas?

 

[Markfs]

There is definitely some similarities between the pandemic response and the Gaza situation and it's a pretty good way of getting an understanding of the situation between both sides.

I think the most important concept to grasp is that Hamas has little interest in the welfare of the Palestinians under it's tyranny.

I'm not sure what you mean by the laughable reason? Can you clarify that part? Unfortunately Israel is in an unenviable situation and there is no easy or palatable answer.

I can't really comment on what the Israeli leadership would want, nor do I have a vote in the matter, but by that same measure have you read the charter of Hamas?

I said that the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council stated the following and although there may have been instances where the hamas rockets have fallen short and hit their own, it's laughable to suggest that they have caused a significant portion of the almost 200 deaths in gaza.

"Our friends in Israel are at the mercy of this terrorist organisation that is not only killing and injuring innocent Israelis, but through its own incompetence, murdering and harming innocent Palestinians. Nearly one-third of all missiles fired by Hamas have fallen within the Gaza Strip.”

I take your point that hamas has a questionable legitimate authority over gaza but you could say that is the case with the current prime minister of israel, although i recognise the difference.

If we accept your proposition that hamas and the palestinians in gaza are separate, then it's a peculiar thing that the israelis are killing palestinian civilians in order to force hamas to negotiate a peace.

Finally, I havent read the hamas charter. I am living in a western democracy where I have a certain degree of freedom of expression. Hadid probably thought she had a similar right.

In a very peculiar way, I merely want australia to stay out of the politics of this situation - as Morrison disingenuously or maybe dishonestly proposed last week. Negotiating free trade agreements, blocking UN resolutions and the formal recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital are not examples of disengagement.

I thank you for your interest in my views.

 

[ZEV]

I said that the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council stated the following and although there may have been instances where the hamas rockets have fallen short and hit their own, it's laughable to suggest that they have caused a significant portion of the almost 200 deaths in gaza.

"Our friends in Israel are at the mercy of this terrorist organisation that is not only killing and injuring innocent Israelis, but through its own incompetence, murdering and harming innocent Palestinians. Nearly one-third of all missiles fired by Hamas have fallen within the Gaza Strip.”

I take your point that hamas has a questionable legitimate authority over gaza but you could say that is the case with the current prime minister of israel, although i recognise the difference.

If we accept your proposition that hamas and the palestinians in gaza are separate, then it's a peculiar thing that the israelis are killing palestinian civilians in order to force hamas to negotiate a peace.

Finally, I havent read the hamas charter. I am living in a western democracy where I have a certain degree of freedom of expression. Hadid probably thought she had a similar right.

In a very peculiar way, I merely want australia to stay out of the politics of this situation - as Morrison disingenuously or maybe dishonestly proposed last week. Negotiating free trade agreements, blocking UN resolutions and the formal recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital are not examples of disengagement.

I thank you for your interest in my views.

Hamas regularly execute their own citizens without trial for being Israeli "collaborators".

Hamas urge their citizens to form human shields to protect their terrorist assets.

Hamas use balloons to float bombs over the border.

Hamas pay a salary to the families of martyrs who kill Jews.

Hamas celebrate the deaths of Palestinians as useful material for their propaganda regime

Hamas actively encourage and provide incentives to suicide bombers.

Hamas have destroyed their own electricity grid to the point of no repair.

Hamas have spent more money on underground tunnels in order to attack Israel than it would have cost to build desalination plants to provide drinking water for their people.

Hamas is an internationally recognised terrorist group that uses the Palestinians of Gaza to further their own murderous agenda.

This is not made up or my opinion.

I would advise having a look at what Hamas stands for and how they operate in order to gain a wider understanding of the situation.