All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: Traded to Carlton

[Beats]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I'd give pick 19 for him. Granted I don't know much about who would be on the board at that stage of the draft but what are the chances we pick up someone as promising as Warnock? He's about 11cm taller than White and as has been stated has alraedy been developed and shown he can play at the top level. What have we got in the past at about last first round? Green, Wheatley, Dunn, Bate, Bell?? Nick Smith? Hardly superstars. Granted I'm pissed and could be well off the mark.

You've also forgotten Scott Thompson and Addam Maric, but anyway that's who we've drafted, it's not to say that the players on offer at that point aren't going to be very good players, especially considering that Warnock is hardly going to be a superstar either...

Other players taken in the late first early second(15-23) round since 2000 = Daniel Kerr, Kane Cornes, Drew Petrie, James Kelly, Jason Gram, Matt Maguire and Sean Rusling among others.

Around pick 19 we should be expecting either a speedy outside midfielder or a KPF who has shown a fair bit at junior level(Blease, Hill, Walters/Cornelius, Cahill, Mitch Brown), once you put a name to a pick it's a lot harder to see yourself trading said pick.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Around pick 19 we should be expecting either a speedy outside midfielder or a KPF who has shown a fair bit at junior level(Blease, Hill, Walters/Cornelius, Cahill, Mitch Brown), once you put a name to a pick it's a lot harder to see yourself trading said pick.

You can't compare drafts because of the different quality and depth levels, you could easily make an argument for either side of the debate.

You've put some names to the pick, i'll take them off again. We could take Blease or Hill at 17 or both could be gone before then, Cornelius could be gone as well but we'll already have Watts and then there is every chance that both of Cahill & Brown will still be available at pick 35. So that leaves Walters, it's a bit easier to trade when it's only 1 name.

If we take Watts there's every chance we'll be looking at our next greatest need with our next pick, which is a ruckman.

I don't think you should put names to it anyway because we have no idea what the club is thinking, maybe if we take Watts they'd be aiming for a ruckman at 19 anyway. But lets rate the ruckman, Naitanui is top 3 and Vickery is top 10. Trengove & McKernan could go anywhere from about 10-25 but both are better suited to KP and aren't really tall enough to ruck at AFL level (only 196cm) so cross them out. Jordan Roughead is the next best option and could go anywhere from 17 - 40 depending on needs. After that there's Redden & Clarke who are thought to be 3rd round or later selections.

So we won't get Naitanui or Vickery, Trengove & McKernan are undersized not really AFL ruck options and could already be gone and Redden & Clarke will most likely be around at our 3rd pick. So if you want to compare who we are giving up, if we get Warnock for pick 19 then we are giving up Roughead. Roughead doesn't have huge raps on him and some see him going 3rd round, as well as only being 199cm.

Is Warnock worth pick 19? Yes, especially if he's starting as our No.1 ruckman next year.

 

[richskee]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

MEH... I just dont want him getting paid $300,000 + a year after he's only played 20 games of AFL.

He's 21 yrs old and he'd be getting as much as Brad Green a year. He doesn't deserve or warrant that sort of money... Would that create bad blood around the club??? I mean his brothers frobably on about $130,000 a year...


I say we give Rob $150,000 for 3 years and if he not happy just entice him with a 'Quad Stacker' always seems to work!

 

[cannons]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I say we give Rob $150,000 for 3 years and if he not happy just entice him with a 'Quad Stacker' always seems to work!

Rob could do with a quad stacker to put on some weight.

While you're taking orders, get one for Cale Morton too

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Rob could do with a quad stacker to put on some weight.

While you're taking orders, get one for Cale Morton too

Apparently David Schwartz will be donating his ass to help get some more bulk. However when he offered to throw in his tongue and brain, the deal was off.

 

[Beats]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

You can't compare drafts because of the different quality and depth levels, you could easily make an argument for either side of the debate.

You've put some names to the pick, i'll take them off again. We could take Blease or Hill at 17 or both could be gone before then, Cornelius could be gone as well but we'll already have Watts and then there is every chance that both of Cahill & Brown will still be available at pick 35. So that leaves Walters, it's a bit easier to trade when it's only 1 name.

If we take Watts there's every chance we'll be looking at our next greatest need with our next pick, which is a ruckman.

I don't think you should put names to it anyway because we have no idea what the club is thinking, maybe if we take Watts they'd be aiming for a ruckman at 19 anyway. But lets rate the ruckman, Naitanui is top 3 and Vickery is top 10. Trengove & McKernan could go anywhere from about 10-25 but both are better suited to KP and aren't really tall enough to ruck at AFL level (only 196cm) so cross them out. Jordan Roughead is the next best option and could go anywhere from 17 - 40 depending on needs. After that there's Redden & Clarke who are thought to be 3rd round or later selections.

So we won't get Naitanui or Vickery, Trengove & McKernan are undersized not really AFL ruck options and could already be gone and Redden & Clarke will most likely be around at our 3rd pick. So if you want to compare who we are giving up, if we get Warnock for pick 19 then we are giving up Roughead. Roughead doesn't have huge raps on him and some see him going 3rd round, as well as only being 199cm.

Is Warnock worth pick 19? Yes, especially if he's starting as our No.1 ruckman next year.

If you read the post that I quoted, you would understand that I wasn't comparing drafts, I was actually making the same point as you, in that in his first post, he said that we had only got **** in the 15-25 range so we should trade pick 19, I said that there were also good players on offer in that range.

I know that the two standout ruckman in NN and Vickery will be gone, Trengove probably will be as well, Mckernan is a chance at being at our pick.
If we were to pick up Roughead at pick 19, then I'd say we should definitely trade the pick for Warnock, however it's debatable that ruck is our second greatest need.
We have no KPF forwards stocks at all, and saying that Watts will fix that completely is bogus, especially seeing as there is a fair array of talented forwards in this draft, likewise speedy outside midfielders, most of which won't be available at our pick 35.
I perceive both of those to be greater needs than getting a ruckman, In the ruck we have PJ and Jamar who are both 25-26 next year, Meesen who is **** atm and Spencer who is not ready, but we have 2 people ready to play that position.
In key position stocks we have Newton ... who wouldn't get a game in our best 22, after that we have an array of 3rd talls but no genuine key position players.
In terms of midfielders with speed, or who take the game on we have ... Buckley? we're yet to see if he can play the whole game in the midfield. I understand it's not a necessity to have one or a few, but we don't really have anyone coming through the ranks who can play this position.

I threw up 6 names who I expect to be in the 15-25 range, given Mitch Brown and Paul Cahill could be at our 3rd pick, maybe they won't be, what I said wasn't the be all and end all, it was an example of what we could get instead of Warnock.
You say he will be our starting ruckman, is there anything to back that up, or is that just because you say so?
He's shown potential given, but is he ahead of Jamar? Hard to say at this point, especially seeing as Jamar has a lot more experience, age and size going for him.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

If you read the post that I quoted, you would understand that I wasn't comparing drafts, I was actually making the same point as you, in that in his first post, he said that we had only got **** in the 15-25 range so we should trade pick 19, I said that there were also good players on offer in that range.

That was a comment to everyone, more so those saying trying to devalue the pick because other years it's not netted great results. Previous years mean nothing

I threw up 6 names who I expect to be in the 15-25 range, given Mitch Brown and Paul Cahill could be at our 3rd pick, maybe they won't be, what I said wasn't the be all and end all, it was an example of what we could get instead of Warnock.

I understand it was an example, i was just playing a bit of devils advocate. In that post you said "once you put a name to a pick it's a lot harder to see yourself trading said pick." and all i was doing in reply was taking those names off, we could draft anyone so you can't attach any names to it yet.

I agree that a ruckman isn't necessarily our 2nd biggest need, i was just using the common perception on here that it is. I actually want us to take Watts and then to midfielders and then a ruckman or forward at pick 35. More so a forward, Cahill and Brown could be gone but after Watts, Johnstone & Cornelius you could throw a blanket over the next best few, i find it hard to seperate them.

You say he will be our starting ruckman, is there anything to back that up, or is that just because you say so?
He's shown potential given, but is he ahead of Jamar? Hard to say at this point, especially seeing as Jamar has a lot more experience, age and size going for him.

Just because i say so, what more do you need?

Warnock held down the No.1 ruck position in the absence of Sandilands in 2007 and Freo won 4 of those 6 games, ask any freo fan about it and they'll say it was pretty impressive for a kid who'd only played 6 games before that.

He was pretty good this year, Sandilands is either No.1 or 2 for time spent in the ruck (Cox might be ahead of him) yet Warnock during the stint he played until he got injured he still managed about 10 hitouts a game with limited time in the ruck as well as averaging 3 more possession a game then Jamar with a lot less time. I've also heard that over the pre-seasons Warnock has been pretty impressive with putting on weight, putting on +20kg since he joined freo, so he should be bigger again next year

Maybe i shouldn't have said starting as No.1 ruckman, it should have been especially if he becomes our No.1 ruckman during next year, he might have to fight Jamar for it, but i don't think we'd be trying to get him unless they thought he could be a No.1 ruckman and very soon.

 

[Beats]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I understand it was an example, i was just playing a bit of devils advocate. In that post you said "once you put a name to a pick it's a lot harder to see yourself trading said pick." and all i was doing in reply was taking those names off, we could draft anyone so you can't attach any names to it yet.

I agree that a ruckman isn't necessarily our 2nd biggest need, i was just using the common perception on here that it is. I actually want us to take Watts and then to midfielders and then a ruckman or forward at pick 35. More so a forward, Cahill and Brown could be gone but after Watts, Johnstone & Cornelius you could throw a blanket over the next best few, i find it hard to seperate them.



Just because i say so, what more do you need?

Warnock held down the No.1 ruck position in the absence of Sandilands in 2007 and Freo won 4 of those 6 games, ask any freo fan about it and they'll say it was pretty impressive for a kid who'd only played 6 games before that.

He was pretty good this year, Sandilands is either No.1 or 2 for time spent in the ruck (Cox might be ahead of him) yet Warnock during the stint he played until he got injured he still managed about 10 hitouts a game with limited time in the ruck as well as averaging 3 more possession a game then Jamar with a lot less time. I've also heard that over the pre-seasons Warnock has been pretty impressive with putting on weight, putting on +20kg since he joined freo, so he should be bigger again next year

Maybe i shouldn't have said starting as No.1 ruckman, it should have been especially if he becomes our No.1 ruckman during next year, he might have to fight Jamar for it, but i don't think we'd be trying to get him unless they thought he could be a No.1 ruckman and very soon.

I'm kind of starting to come round to taking Nait, Forward, Midfielder, Forward, Midfielder.
I don't think our midfield is week, but we lack any pace or finishing skills, injecting a Blease or Hill, as well as Buckley goes a long way to finishing that.
Added to that I think Nait could/should be trialled as a tagger for his first few years, he has great closing speed and is fierce in contests, added to this it helps him learn more about the game, following an Ablett or a Judd around.

As for Warnock, he will be a number one ruckman at whatever club he goes to in a few years, but at the moment he is not the complete package and still needs to gain at least another 10kg's.
It's been a good effort for him to gain 20+ so far, but he was worse than anorexic when he was drafted.
And I'm sure he is/ will be better than Jamar, just saying that you can't pin a tag on him when he's not playing under the same conditions as Jamar/Johnson etc.

 

[cheney]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Word is that Melbourne and Freo have struck a deal. Melbourne will hand over our pick 1 for freo's pick 3 and Robbie Warnock. Fremantle are really keen on securing Natanui and Melb Watts. West Coast were after Natanui or Rich, but this ensures Freo will get there man, and West Coast will settle for Rich. Everyone's happy.

 

[HiHoEverybody]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Word is that Melbourne and Freo have struck a deal. Melbourne will hand over our pick 1 for freo's pick 3 and Robbie Warnock. Fremantle are really keen on securing Natanui and Melb Watts. West Coast were after Natanui or Rich, but this ensures Freo will get there man, and West Coast will settle for Rich. Everyone's happy.

Except for Warnock who wants Carlton!

Do we realy want a guy who doesnt want to play for us?

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Except for Warnock who wants Carlton!

Do we realy want a guy who doesnt want to play for us?

Trading is not that clear cut, captain gullible.

Warnock said he wants Carlton, because it forces Mel/Freo to come to terms and ups his price tag.

Believe it or not, a lot of footballers like to make as much money as possible from their very short careers. Agents will help them get the biggest contract possible. The easiest way to do this is creating a bidding war. Which is exactly what Warnock appears to have done.

 

[RandB]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Trading is not that clear cut, captain gullible.

Warnock said he wants Carlton, because it forces Mel/Freo to come to terms and ups his price tag.

Believe it or not, a lot of footballers like to make as much money as possible from their very short careers. Agents will help them get the biggest contract possible. The easiest way to do this is creating a bidding war. Which is exactly what Warnock appears to have done.

I disagree in part.

Whilst Warnock wouldn't want Freo to get done over, all he had to do was insist with Melbourne that he wanted them to get at least a trade on the table. Melbourne could have offered pick 35 and whilst Freo may not have been impressed at least the club could have satisfied Warnock in that they did at least do something. I always look at it like this, Warnock gains nothing in the long term to holding Melbourne to ransom as far as a trade is concerned. If Melbourne got him, he would assumably play with this team for the rest of his career. Why would he want Melbourne to have to do significantly more than what is necessary to get him from Freo when it hurts the club? We can still compensate Freo without hurting ourselves.

As far as the individual side is concerned, the whole thing went pair shaped when Carlton got out the wallet. He could have started a bidding war by not nominating anyone at all if that was what he wanted but I am guessing that knowing what Melbourne could offer, Carlton were significantly in front so he didn't even bother to waste time. If he was just putting it out there that he got a good offer from Carlton and was open to other clubs matching it then why did he nominate Carlton? His agent could have just gone through the regular processes of negotiations with all the clubs concerned using Carlton as the current benchmark.

Maybe I am missing something as I don't know much about the mechanics of player contracts and trades but Carlton (even if they don't let on) are desperate for a good ruck to work with Kruezer and would have snared him in one interview with the Visy dollars. I am open to correction though if anyone has any further insight on this but atm I can only see Warnock going to Melbourne if negotiations between Freo and Carlton implode or Melbourne offer Freo a better trade option.

 

[Beats]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Word is that Melbourne and Freo have struck a deal. Melbourne will hand over our pick 1 for freo's pick 3 and Robbie Warnock. Fremantle are really keen on securing Natanui and Melb Watts. West Coast were after Natanui or Rich, but this ensures Freo will get there man, and West Coast will settle for Rich. Everyone's happy.

Source?

Melbourne will not trade the number one pick, the amount of coverage the pick will get and bring to the club is priceless, think about the amount of stories kreuzer was getting last year.

 

[RandB]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Source?

Melbourne will not trade the number one pick, the amount of coverage the pick will get and bring to the club is priceless, think about the amount of stories kreuzer was getting last year.

Are you seriously suggesting that scenario is not plausible purely due to publicity of the #1 pick? If we hypothetically could get Warnock and Watts by swapping pick 3 for pick 1 with Freo who gives a rats tossbag about 5 minutes of publicity, especially if Watts was the player we wanted in the first place?

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I disagree in part.

Whilst Warnock wouldn't want Freo to get done over, all he had to do was insist with Melbourne that he wanted them to get at least a trade on the table. Melbourne could have offered pick 35 and whilst Freo may not have been impressed at least the club could have satisfied Warnock in that they did at least do something. I always look at it like this, Warnock gains nothing in the long term to holding Melbourne to ransom as far as a trade is concerned. If Melbourne got him, he would assumably play with this team for the rest of his career. Why would he want Melbourne to have to do significantly more than what is necessary to get him from Freo when it hurts the club? We can still compensate Freo without hurting ourselves.

As far as the individual side is concerned, the whole thing went pair shaped when Carlton got out the wallet. He could have started a bidding war by not nominating anyone at all if that was what he wanted but I am guessing that knowing what Melbourne could offer, Carlton were significantly in front so he didn't even bother to waste time. If he was just putting it out there that he got a good offer from Carlton and was open to other clubs matching it then why did he nominate Carlton? His agent could have just gone through the regular processes of negotiations with all the clubs concerned using Carlton as the current benchmark.

Maybe I am missing something as I don't know much about the mechanics of player contracts and trades but Carlton (even if they don't let on) are desperate for a good ruck to work with Kruezer and would have snared him in one interview with the Visy dollars. I am open to correction though if anyone has any further insight on this but atm I can only see Warnock going to Melbourne if negotiations between Freo and Carlton implode or Melbourne offer Freo a better trade option.

You are definitely missing something.

For a start, you've completely forgotten that he did exactly what you said (the part I bolded in your post). He didn't nominate a preferred club, and I imagine wanted to drive his price up. Carlton made an offer, we made an offer. Carlton's was higher. So he chose Carlton. Now we are looking to match the offer, if you believe the rumours.

If Melbourne were smart, they'd have offered the bigger money first, because at the very least we'd screw Carlton's capspace worse than it already is by driving the price up - and at best we could have convinced to just nominate for the PSD.

You're right in that its entirely possible that the Carlton offer was so high he couldn't say no. But that wouldn't mean he's not open to Melbourne matching it.

 

[BETON5]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Are you seriously suggesting that scenario is not plausible purely due to publicity of the #1 pick? If we hypothetically could get Warnock and Watts by swapping pick 3 for pick 1 with Freo who gives a rats tossbag about 5 minutes of publicity, especially if Watts was the player we wanted in the first place?

Spot on Randy,im starting to get excited again!!!

 

[RandB]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

You are definitely missing something.

For a start, you've completely forgotten that he did exactly what you said (the part I bolded in your post). He didn't nominate a preferred club, and I imagine wanted to drive his price up. Carlton made an offer, we made an offer. Carlton's was higher. So he chose Carlton. Now we are looking to match the offer, if you believe the rumours.

If Melbourne were smart, they'd have offered the bigger money first, because at the very least we'd screw Carlton's capspace worse than it already is by driving the price up - and at best we could have convinced to just nominate for the PSD.

You're right in that its entirely possible that the Carlton offer was so high he couldn't say no. But that wouldn't mean he's not open to Melbourne matching it.

The bolded bit?

I think your point is all about what actually constitutes a player "nominating" a club and maybe I have been a bit ignorant here. My understanding was that he had "nominated" Carlton and by that he was going to accept their current offer if allowed to go there. Fair enough if Melbourne still have a right of reply and can offer something satisfactory to Warnock to sway him then I stand corrected.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

The bolded bit?

I think your point is all about what actually constitutes a player "nominating" a club and maybe I have been a bit ignorant here. My understanding was that he had "nominated" Carlton and by that he was going to accept their current offer if allowed to go there. Fair enough if Melbourne still have a right of reply and can offer something satisfactory to Warnock to sway him then I stand corrected.

I'm a dumbass, and forgot to actually bold anything. I was referring to the part you mentioned how he could have started a bidding war by not nominating either club, which is exactly what he did.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I think your point is all about what actually constitutes a player "nominating" a club and maybe I have been a bit ignorant here. My understanding was that he had "nominated" Carlton and by that he was going to accept their current offer if allowed to go there. Fair enough if Melbourne still have a right of reply and can offer something satisfactory to Warnock to sway him then I stand corrected.

Carlton & Freo still have to come to terms and officially those discussions shouldn't start until trade week. There's still plenty of water to go under the bridge yet

I'm yet to actually read anywhere that Warnock has nominated carlton. I've read direct quotes from Carlton & his manager saying that they're negotiating, and assumptions from newspapers that he's said "i only want to go to carlton." At the moment that, as said above, this could just be beat up by his manager to drive up his price

I might be wrong, but they're 2 very different statements. Someone show me something to the contrary

 

[RandB]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I'm yet to actually read anywhere that Warnock has nominated carlton. I've read direct quotes from Carlton & his manager saying that they're negotiating, and assumptions from newspapers that he's said "i only want to go to carlton."

Yeah, it looks like I have misread the exact situation a bit with the Warnock - Carlton link in the media.

 

[Angus McFuttock]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Reported on channel 10 (Perth) tonight that Warnock's manager is putting offers from Carlton, Melbourne and Richmond to Robbie and he's expected to (officially) nominate a club next week.

 

[richskee]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Word is that Melbourne and Freo have struck a deal. Melbourne will hand over our pick 1 for freo's pick 3 and Robbie Warnock. Fremantle are really keen on securing Natanui and Melb Watts. West Coast were after Natanui or Rich, but this ensures Freo will get there man, and West Coast will settle for Rich. Everyone's happy.

This could be risky...

If we did swap our No.1 for pick 3, it could create doubt in Watts mind about nominating, for the possibility he could be heading to W.A. Everyone seems to think that all picks are set in stone, i don't...

And if he didn't nominate.

1- Freo- Naita
2- WCE- Rich
3- Melb- ???? (An angry mob of MFC supporters)

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I honestly think we'd be better off getting Watts next year. He's not going to do much for us as a full time student in 2009, and we could snare Naita who could quite easily end up being the best player of all time.

 

[richskee]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

I honestly think we'd be better off getting Watts next year. He's not going to do much for us as a full time student in 2009, and we could snare Naita who could quite easily end up being the best player of all time.

Ahhh karl. Not going to convince these Watt lovers, i know it's frustrating, ive been pushing Naita for a year now...

I know one thing though, if MFC don't pick Naita and he turns out to be the biggest superstar of the game. I will have a burning hatred for the club, knowing we just missed out on a freak. People can dismiss what i just said, but it is only because of my passion for the club that i will take it to heart...

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Re: All things Robbie Warnock - UPDATE: $$$$

Ahhh karl. Not going to convince these Watt lovers, i know it's frustrating, ive been pushing Naita for a year now...

I know one thing though, if MFC don't pick Naita and he turns out to be the biggest superstar of the game. I will have a burning hatred for the club, knowing we just missed out on a freak. People can dismiss what i just said, but it is only because of my passion for the club that i will take it to heart...

I'm in the same boat. The potential gain from drafting Naita is much bigger than the potential loss if he doesn't work out.