As the thread says all things US of A so those with a tendency to wander keep it on track please.
I was interested to notice a post on this board the other day that claimed that 100 million first nation peoples had been slain during the Indian wars and then also recalled this comment made to me in the same thread "Even if some highly educated history expert writes it. They can never know for sure. That include numbers too."
So I looked back and thought to myself "what do I know about this subject?" and the answer is very little. My US history is very much WW2 and little else but I do recall Dee Browns Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee though I read that a long time ago. I recall thinking it was an exceptional book and as with these type of books it brought home man's usual inhumanity to man.
So with the 100 million in mind and that fact that we can never know for sure I have had a delve into this and so far found that "deatholagist" Matthew White has a figure of 350,000. He cites Russel Thornton's American Indian Holocaust and Survival who claimed an overall decline from 600,000 in 1800 to 250,000 in 1890s.
Wiki states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars
Wiki tends to be frowned upon as a source so I looked further.
I have found American Holocaust by David Stannard cites 100 million but is a history of the North and South American continent and the deaths of all from the time of Columbus. The Wiki about Stannard states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stannard
I would not mind reading American Holocaust.
I have also found this link that tends to support the wiki about Stannard.
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302
This is also a useful read.
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/americanindians.htm
The subject itself becomes skinny as a discussion point and I find that disappointing. IMO it is the usual issue that is confronted with ones own feelings as to their own nation and patriotism, political views etc that are challenged. There is no doubt in my mind that genocide happened to Native North Americans. As to the numbers to quote someone else we "can never know for sure". I do not think that this approximate number of 100 million is the US alone but do feel that it could cover the Americas from Columbus onwards.
I was interested to notice a post on this board the other day that claimed that 100 million first nation peoples had been slain during the Indian wars and then also recalled this comment made to me in the same thread "Even if some highly educated history expert writes it. They can never know for sure. That include numbers too."
So I looked back and thought to myself "what do I know about this subject?" and the answer is very little. My US history is very much WW2 and little else but I do recall Dee Browns Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee though I read that a long time ago. I recall thinking it was an exceptional book and as with these type of books it brought home man's usual inhumanity to man.
So with the 100 million in mind and that fact that we can never know for sure I have had a delve into this and so far found that "deatholagist" Matthew White has a figure of 350,000. He cites Russel Thornton's American Indian Holocaust and Survival who claimed an overall decline from 600,000 in 1800 to 250,000 in 1890s.
Wiki states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars
As the direct result of infectious diseases, wars between tribes, wars with Europeans, migration to Canada and Mexico, declining birth rates, and of assimilation, the numbers of Native Americans dropped to below one million in the 19th century. Scholars believe that the overwhelming main causes were new infectious diseases carried by European explorers and traders. Native Americans had no acquired immunity to such diseases, which had been chronic in Eurasian populations for over five centuries.[4] For instance, some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80–90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics.[5]
The U.S. Bureau of the Census (1894) provided an estimate of deaths:
"The Indian wars under the government of the United States have been more than 40 in number. They have cost the lives of about 19,000 white men, women and children, including those killed in individual combats, and the lives of about 30,000 Indians. The actual number of killed and wounded Indians must be very much higher than the given... Fifty percent additional would be a safe estimate..."[6]
Wiki tends to be frowned upon as a source so I looked further.
I have found American Holocaust by David Stannard cites 100 million but is a history of the North and South American continent and the deaths of all from the time of Columbus. The Wiki about Stannard states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stannard
Stannard's research on the indigenous peoples of North and South America (including [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii']Hawaii
[/URL])[1] has produced the conclusion that Native Americans had undergone the "worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people."[2] While acknowledging that the majority of the indigenous peoples fell victim to the ravages of European disease, he estimates that almost 100 million died in what he calls the American Holocaust.[3] In response to Stannard's figures, political scientist Rudolph Rummel has estimated that over the centuries of European colonization about 2 million to 15 million American indigenous people were the victims of what he calls democide, which excludes military battles and unintentional deaths in Rummel's definition. The vast majority of the victims of democide were in Latin America. "Even if these figures are remotely true," writes Rummel, "then this still make this subjugation of the Americas one of the bloodier, centuries long, democides in world history."[4] According to Guenter Lewy, Stannard's perspective has been joined by scholars Kirkpatrick Sale, Ben Kiernan, Lenore A. Stiffarm, Phil Lane, Jr., and Ward Churchill.[2]
I would not mind reading American Holocaust.
I have also found this link that tends to support the wiki about Stannard.
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302
This is also a useful read.
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/americanindians.htm
The subject itself becomes skinny as a discussion point and I find that disappointing. IMO it is the usual issue that is confronted with ones own feelings as to their own nation and patriotism, political views etc that are challenged. There is no doubt in my mind that genocide happened to Native North Americans. As to the numbers to quote someone else we "can never know for sure". I do not think that this approximate number of 100 million is the US alone but do feel that it could cover the Americas from Columbus onwards.