All Time Australian XI

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Thread starter #1
Once again, something for the lull between tests....


1. Victor Trumper


2. Arthur Morris


3. Don Bradman


4. Greg Chappell


5. Ricky Ponting


6. Allan Border


7. Adam Gilchrist


8. Shane Warne


9. Allan Davidson


10. Dennis Lillee


11. Glenn McGrath




12th Man- Keith Miller
 

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Thommo 42

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#3
Pretty good team.

I'd also leave Miller out and go for the specialist quick, with Gilchrist at #7 we don't need that traditional all-rounder type.

My only change might be Ponsford for Morris, but happy to leave it as is.

I'd squeeze in Clarrie Grimmet when on the sub-continent ;)
 
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#4
I'd drop Border and play Miller or O'Reilly, depending on conditions. Having the don and Gilchrist means we can afford one less batsmen and play 5 bowlers/4 bowlers and an all rounder. Given Davidson, miller, Warne all handy with the bat we could definitely get by with just the op 5 batsmen plus Gilly.
 

greatwhiteshark

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#5
I would have Steve Waugh ahead of Border personally. And Lindwall ahead of Davidson.

But lets face it we are just replacing stars with stars.
 

greatwhiteshark

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#6
Very unfair these types of things on Wicket Keepers.

Gilly of course is the obvious choice but he is being picked in reality as an extra batsman.

If you had to pick purely on wicket keeping ability then he would not be considered.

Marsh, Healy, Tallon, Rixon all are superior wicket keepers.

Gilchrist made his name purely as a batsman!!!
 

Thommo 42

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#7
I would have Steve Waugh ahead of Border personally.
While Waugh is my favourite cricketer all-time, I couldn't possibly replace Border with with Waugh.

Steve Waugh was one tough bastard, but Border is the original and the best. Waugh just extended his legacy.

Waugh faced some incredible attacks, but Border came up against Holding, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Younis, Donald, Botham, Willis, Dev, Hadlee (and more) all at their very best and maintained his brilliance throughout.
 

eth-dog

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#8
I personally would go:

1. Matthew Hayden (8625 runs @ 50.73 from 103 tests)
2. Bill Ponsford (2122 runs @ 48.22 from 29 tests)
3. Donald Bradman (6996 runs @ 99.94 from 52 tests)
4. Ricky Ponting (13218 runs @ 53.08 from 163 tests)
5. Allan Border (11174 runs @ 50.56 from 156 tests)
6. Steve Waugh (10927 runs @51.06/92 wickets @ 37.44 from 168 tests)
7. Adam Gilchrist (5570 runs @ 47.60 from 96 tests)
8. Keith Miller (2958 runs @ 36.97/170 wickets @ 22.97 from 55 tests)
9. Shane Warne (708 wickets @ 25.41 from 145 tests)
10. Dennis Lillee (355 wickets @ 23.92 from 70 tests)
11. Glenn McGrath (563 wickets @ 21.64 from 124 tests)
 

Thommo 42

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#9
No chance for Hayden imo, wouldn't even make my 2nd XI, possibly not my 3rd XI either.

Morris, Trumper, Ponsford all way ahead and I'd have Hayden behind contemporaries such as Slats and Tubby too. Stats aren't everything.

Don't know how you could possibly name an All-Time Australian XI without GS Chappell.
 
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Thread starter #10
My second XI would look like this:

1. Bill Ponsford


2. Bill Lawry


3. Neil Harvey


4. Stan McCabe


5. Steve Waugh


6. Doug Walters


7. Ian Healy


8. Ray Lindwall


9. CTB Turner


10. Bill O'Reilly


11. Clarrie Grimmett
 

eth-dog

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#11
No chance for Hayden imo, wouldn't even make my 2nd XI, possibly not my 3rd XI either.

Morris, Trumper, Ponsford all way ahead and I'd have Hayden behind contemporaries such as Slats and Tubby too. Stats aren't everything.

Don't know how you could possibly name an All-Time Australian XI without GS Chappell.
Hayden is my favourite player ever, so I'm not what you exactly impartial in that regard

Who does he displace? Ponting? Border? Waugh? In the end they're all fantastic cricketers, none would be out of place. My gut just said those three ahead of Chappell
 

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Thread starter #12
Hayden is my favourite player ever, so I'm not what you exactly impartial in that regard
I reckon Hayden would go in my third XI (but no reason he couldn't be in the first or second, other than personal preference):

1. Matthew Hayden

2. Bob Simpson

3. Ian Chappell/ David Boon (really can't split them apart from Chappell's slip fielding)

4. Lindsay Hassett

5. Michael Clarke

6. Mike Hussey

7. Richie Benaud

8. Jack Gregory

9. Craig McDermott

10. Jack Blackham

11. Fred Spofforth
 

Thommo 42

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#13
Interesting CourtJester, I was pretty much in agreeance with your 1st and 2nd XI's - though I'd have found room for Thommo in the 2nd XI.

No way would I put Clarke or Hussey ahead of Mark Waugh though, Clarke possibly by end of career, but for mine M.Waugh is well ahead of Hussey. I'd also have MacKenzie ahead of a couple of your quicks.
 
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Thread starter #14
Interesting CourtJester, I was pretty much in agreeance with your 1st and 2nd XI's - though I'd have found room for Thommo in the 2nd XI.

No way would I put Clarke or Hussey ahead of Mark Waugh though, Clarke possibly by end of career, but for mine M.Waugh is well ahead of Hussey. I'd also have MacKenzie ahead of a couple of your quicks.
Cheers mate, I do agree with what you are saying.

Mark Waugh is probably my favourite Australian cricketer, so I'd love to squeeze him in. He could probably replace Hussey or Clarke.

Thommo, yeh, you're probably right. With the two spinners a must in the second team, it's hard to squeeze him past Lindwall and CTB though. He probably should replace Gregory in the third team, for sure.
 

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#16
Langer>Hayden anyday, IMO.
Absolutely , player's get better the longer they are retired so I guess player's like Morris etc are way more popular than ' The Bear and The Ferret ' :) .
However for me in reality why would you not play both , awesome record's . Also who would you rather watch ? I personally would prefer to see Haydo's and Langer scoring at around 4 an over :) than anybody else who has been mentioned .
The only no brainer's would be Bradman ,Warnie , Gilly and Lillee .

Hayden
Langer
Bradman
Border
S . Waugh
Gilchrist
Miller
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

I made this team in 2 minutes of thinking so I may have screwed up somewhere . Obviously Ponting is an obvious absentee . He has great figures but stat's can lie . I'm just not as ' big ' on Ponting as nearly everyone else is . What can I say !
I only listed 4 specialist batsman but when you have gilchrist in the side aswell as Miller and Davidson , I dont think that matter's . The bowling attack cater's for everyone , 3 front line legendary quick's , a brilliant left arm seamer and the greatest spinner of all time .
My father is a cricket nut who saw a lot of the old timer's , guy's like Bill Lawry , Bob Simpson . Lawry was his hero but even he admit's that they dont hold a candle to our modern day gun's . Gilchrist especially .
I respect that , there's too many judges stuck in the past .
 

Thommo 42

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#17
I would never pick Hayden in an all-time XI because he has a terrible record against quality fast bowling. He spent his prime playing shield cricket while Slater and Taylor were off playing the likes of Waqar, Akram, Ambrose, Donald, Walsh etc

He was the ultimate flat track bully who dined out on crap bowling stocks after his 30th birthday.
 

Public Enemy No1

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#18
I would never pick Hayden in an all-time XI because he has a terrible record against quality fast bowling. He spent his prime playing shield cricket while Slater and Taylor were off playing the likes of Waqar, Akram, Ambrose, Donald, Walsh etc

He was the ultimate flat track bully who dined out on crap bowling stocks after his 30th birthday.

Or maybe he just reached his potential...Is well in front of Taylor and Slater.
Well in front

And for posters picking Healy in front of gilchrist...no just no
 

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#19
Interesting CourtJester, I was pretty much in agreeance with your 1st and 2nd XI's - though I'd have found room for Thommo in the 2nd XI.

No way would I put Clarke or Hussey ahead of Mark Waugh though, Clarke possibly by end of career, but for mine M.Waugh is well ahead of Hussey. I'd also have MacKenzie ahead of a couple of your quicks.
I'm well aware that 'stats aren't everything' but have you actually looked at Mark Waugh's record? Considering he played his entire career when australia was basically the top cricket nation, his performances were remarkably unimpressive. He averaged 41, with a top score of 150. For his contemporaries, Langer averaged 45, Jones averaged 46, Martyn 46, Taylor 43, Steve Waugh 50, Boon 43 etc.
Oh, he looked great, and was a fine fieldsman. but he rarely played a really crucial innings. In no way does his fielding make up the difference. Hussey's contribution has been far better. Clarke is nearly there too..
 

dan warna

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#20
I'm well aware that 'stats aren't everything' but have you actually looked at Mark Waugh's record? Considering he played his entire career when australia was basically the top cricket nation, his performances were remarkably unimpressive. He averaged 41, with a top score of 150. For his contemporaries, Langer averaged 45, Jones averaged 46, Martyn 46, Taylor 43, Steve Waugh 50, Boon 43 etc.
Oh, he looked great, and was a fine fieldsman. but he rarely played a really crucial innings. In no way does his fielding make up the difference. Hussey's contribution has been far better. Clarke is nearly there too..
concur, longevity doesn't not equal greatness.

he was an goodish international quality batsman, but really not the great some talk him up as.

Steve waugh was far far superior, so was deano, and boonie.

Interestingly and to note the value he placed on his wicket, greg matthews who played in the same 'hard' era as mark waugh before being dropped because his bowling wasn't up to scratch averaged 41 from 33 tests.

effectively with regard to contribution, mark waugh was barely 5% more valuable than matthews.

I remember watching how doggedly matthews batted. Here was a person, in my opinion who put everything on the line every time he batted for australia.

Sure he's a drop kick in the media, but a quality unit in my opinion.
 

Thommo 42

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#23
nobody was putting him in an all-time XI, I said he'd be in my 3rd XI ahead of Hussey or Clarke.

He did not play most of his cricket with Australia as undisputed kings. He debuted in 1991, we didn't beat WI until 95 (thanks to the Waughs) and we weren't the really dominant side until about 1999.

While Martyn & Langer may arguably be contemporaries (he is older) they largely were not in the test side for long periods of their careers because they were stuck behind Mark Waugh. Just because they then averaged more than him after he retired, doesn't change the fact they weren't good enough to displace him from the side.

Same goes for Hayden. His average might be better, but he spent a decade of his career behind Slater and Taylor because they were better players.
 
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