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Sweet Jesus

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The 14 points were from “the characteristics of a fascist “ which I posted, he posted that in the comments of that clip.
If you go through them, they don't actually define fascism. They might be things that can occur under a fascist regime but that's not the same as a definition.

For example, it says "corporate power is protected". Sure, that might happen under a fascist regime, but it also happens under any number of regimes that aren't fascist.

It also says "mass media is controlled". Have you been to Southeast Asia? Are all those governments fascist? Singapore? Thailand? Vietnam?

You could go down the list and make the same observation about quite a few of those points. Some of them simply describe features that often occur in authoritarian or corrupt regimes. And sure, they'd likely occur under a fascist regime too. But that's not what defines it.

If I asked you for a definition of a dog, would you offer a specific biological classification or would you just write a list of things dogs tend to do even if they also apply to cats?
 

Carringbush2010

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Trump supporters do not tune in to him. They doing want to learn.
His base is left wing, he puts out a video on a daily basis. Has quite a big following.
I find his perspective refreshing from the usual you tube stuff. Not afraid of highlighting the weakness of the left While being Not fearful of what The right will say about his thoughts.
Totally with you there, however he did say that he was requested to post this video to 'trump supporters' - which it seems you agree is pointless.

I don't know much if anything about him, but if as you say he is willing to highlight the weaknesses of the left then that IMO I'd view that is more centrist left leaning rather a 'fervent lefty'.

I think there's an important distinction there, those who are sensibly centred who 'lean' one way or the other are actually centred, not necessarily 'left or right'. Even if in their own mind they consider themselves left or right.

For example I myself took an online test on where I lie on the political spectrum, I was surprised that I'm almost dead centre. I'd label myself more conservative only because I believe strongly in practical themes i:e the opposite of 'progressive'.

Now that is interesting, the 'vibe' of 'progressive' is not practical - certainly by fervent conserves. Has anyone actually entertained the thought that progressive ideals can be practical? Of course they can be.

Getting off topic, apologies Slarti and mods.
 

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Carringbush2010

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If you go through them, they don't actually define fascism. They might be things that can occur under a fascist regime but that's not the same as a definition.

For example, it says "corporate power is protected". Sure, that might happen under a fascist regime, but it also happens under any number of regimes that aren't fascist.

It also says "mass media is controlled". Have you been to Southeast Asia? Are all those governments fascist? Singapore? Thailand? Vietnam?

You could go down the list and make the same observation about quite a few of those points. Some of them simply describe features that often occur in authoritarian or corrupt regimes. And sure, they'd likely occur under a fascist regime too. But that's not what defines it.

If I asked you for a definition of a dog, would you offer a specific biological classification or would you just write a list of things dogs tend to do even if they also apply to cats?
In fact any (not all) of the 14 'points' could be applied to ANY (not all) societal model, 'controlled mass media' - you could apply that to any model as an example. Of course there'll be varying degrees of 'control' i:e the Chinese media controlled by the CCP versus the 'regulations' of the media control under our government(s). Control none the less.
 

Slartibartfast

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Totally with you there, however he did say that he was requested to post this video to 'trump supporters' - which it seems you agree is pointless.

I don't know much if anything about him, but if as you say he is willing to highlight the weaknesses of the left then that IMO I'd view that is more centrist left leaning rather a 'fervent lefty'.

I think there's an important distinction there, those who are sensibly centred who 'lean' one way or the other are actually centred, not necessarily 'left or right'. Even if in their own mind they consider themselves left or right.

For example I myself took an online test on where I lie on the political spectrum, I was surprised that I'm almost dead centre. I'd label myself more conservative only because I believe strongly in practical themes i:e the opposite of 'progressive'.

Now that is interesting, the 'vibe' of 'progressive' is not practical - certainly by fervent conserves. Has anyone actually entertained the thought that progressive ideals can be practical? Of course they can be.

Getting off topic, apologies Slarti and mods.
I am more moderate but still left.
The regular you tube the followers are more at either end.
CNN news , comments section Trump is a dick . Fox news, Trump is a legend.

This guy is left but is not Blinkered and happy to call out crap no matter who does it.
If you go through his list of videos you get a good feel for who he is and what he stands for.

You tube watchers tend to gravitate to the echo chamber of there choosing.
I know I go to the right wing commentators to see what they say and can only get 1 1/2 clips in before I switch off.

I would be surprised if any right winger tunes it to him on a daily basis, if they did they It would only to leave trolling comments .
 

Sweet Jesus

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He states his conclusion like it's a fact?

Like "the 14 characteristics of fascism" are written in stone somewhere. Some of them are so broad that they cease to describe fascism in any useful way. It's nonsense.

He clearly thinks his little bait and switch at the end is really deft and clever but he doesn't even bother to examine the meaning of the word he's applying or offer a working definition.

It's like people are just reaching for the worst thing you can call a leader in the West, regardless of whether it's accurate or not.
 
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Ghost Patrol

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He states his conclusion like it's a fact?

Like "the 14 characteristics of fascism" are written in stone somewhere. Some of them are so broad that they cease to describe fascism in any useful way. It's nonsense.

He clearly thinks his little bait and switch at the end is really deft and clever but he doesn't even bother to examine the meaning of the word he's applying or offer a working definition.
You should explain it to him via youtube comments
 

Slartibartfast

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He states his conclusion like it's a fact?

Like "the 14 characteristics of fascism" are written in stone somewhere. Some of them are so broad that they cease to describe fascism in any useful way. It's nonsense.

He clearly thinks his little bait and switch at the end is really deft and clever but he doesn't even bother to examine the meaning of the word he's applying or offer a working definition.

It's like people are just reaching for the worst thing you can call a leader in the West, regardless of whether it's accurate or not.
It clearly states this is the work of a political scientist Dr Lawrence Britt who studied the fascist regimens of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco , Suharto and Pinochet and these were the 14 elements He found in common.
What was the basis of your conclusions?? :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy:
 

Sweet Jesus

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It clearly states this is the work of a political scientist Dr Lawrence Britt who studied the fascist regimens of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco , Suharto and Pinochet and these were the 14 elements He found in common.
Yeah, and?

They are characteristics. And some of them are so broadly descriptive that they cease to be useful at all.

That's not the same as a definition.

What was the basis of your conclusions?? :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy:
Which conclusions?

If people are calling Trump a fascist, I'm asking what people mean by that word. Can they define it? Or are they just going with it because it sounds bad and they can't come up with anything else?
 

Slartibartfast

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Yeah, and?

They are characteristics. And some of them are so broadly descriptive that they cease to be useful at all.

That's not the same as a definition.

Which conclusions?

If people are calling Trump a fascist, I'm asking what people mean by that word. Can they define it? Or are they just going with it because it sounds bad and they can't come up with anything else?
Yeah and.....
They are what he considers the 14 common factors of a fascist . What’s your issue???? People dont make statements and offer definitions for every word they use. Thats why we have dictionaries so we all have a common basis Of meanings.

If your only getting Caught up on the meaning , well it is a far right ideology. It’s a name, why worry about a name when you had a buffoon of a man as POTUS Who was hell bent on dividing the world.

Anyone he is gone now and with any luck maybe for good.
 

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Sweet Jesus

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Yeah and.....
They are what he considers the 14 common factors of a fascist . What’s your issue????
It's not a definition and some of those characteristics are so broad that they don't describe anything distinct. You'd encounter them in any number of regimes, fascist or not. Basically, the list doesn't make the case you think it makes.

People dont make statements and offer definitions for every word they use. Thats why we have dictionaries so we all have a common basis Of meanings.
Fascism has a distinct meaning. If people are going to use it to describe a government or a leader, they should be able to say what they mean by it.

Otherwise, WTF are they talking about?

If your only getting Caught up on the meaning , well it is a far right ideology. It’s a name, why worry about a name when you had a buffoon of a man as POTUS Who was hell bent on dividing the world.
"It's a name!"

Yeah that really clears it up. Well done, champ.
 

Slartibartfast

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It's not a definition and some of those characteristics are so broad that they don't describe anything distinct. You'd encounter them in any number of regimes, fascist or not. Basically, the list doesn't make the case you think it makes.

Fascism has a distinct meaning. If people are going to use it to describe a government or a leader, they should be able to say what they mean by it.

Otherwise, WTF are they talking about?

"It's a name!"

Yeah that really clears it up. Well done, champ.
Yeah thats right, the POTUS corrupted democracy , tried to start riots to pervert the course of a new president and you only want to get caught up on the meaning of a word which is not ambiguous and is clear to anyone what is meant by it. :rolleyes: What part of far right ideology dont you get.
If you have a particular definition in mind please share???
Have to ask , you do agree that Trump is a fascist?

As for the list, it makes perfect sense. Dont know why you feel that those attributes need to be exclusive to a fascist for it to be right.
The list we’re commonalities between a number of fascist leaders. Not sure what you are reading into it. It makes the case perfectly, this is what was common between these fascist leaders.
Why does that upset you?? Do you just not like hard working fascists being denigrated?:tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 

Sweet Jesus

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Yeah thats right, the POTUS corrupted democracy , tried to start riots to pervert the course of a new president and you only want to get caught up on the meaning of a word which is not ambiguous and is clear to anyone what is meant by it. :rolleyes:
A leader can be corrupt and authoritarian without being fascist. You don't understand that?

What part of far right ideology dont you get.
This is a stupid thing to say. Being right-wing doesn't automatically make someone a fascist.

If you want to talk about ideology, then that's an even harder sell. What is Trump's ideology? Is it demonstrably fascist?

Trump is a conman who'll say anything to serve his own narrow self-interest. It seems unlikely to me that he cares at all about any other guiding principles or vision that fascists might otherwise embrace.

If you have a particular definition in mind please share???
I'm not the one assigning the label. If you think Trump is a fascist, then you should be able to say what you mean by that.

Have to ask , you do agree that Trump is a fascist?
What do you mean by fascist?

Or are you just throwing the word around because you know it's bad, regardless of whether you can explain what it means or whether it's accurate?

Who's the idiot in that scenario?

As for the list, it makes perfect sense. Dont know why you feel that those attributes need to be exclusive to a fascist for it to be right.
The list we’re commonalities between a number of fascist leaders. Not sure what you are reading into it. It makes the case perfectly, this is what was common between these fascist leaders.
Why does that upset you?? Do you just not like hard working fascists being denigrated?:tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
This is incoherent.

The list is pointless because it doesn't define fascism distinctly. It presents a number of characteristics that could describe any number of regimes. Those characteristics don't define fascism distinctly. Read that again slowly if you must.

Try to connect the dots instead of rambling nonsensically.
 
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Ben The Donkey

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Fair enough, I'll be as objective as I can. Meet Person A. An adult of unknown age, unknown gender, unknown ethnicity and unknown occupation. Person A's financial status is also unknown but lets say that Person A owns a house and some property up the bush. A random lightning strike causes a bushfire and Person A's home is destroyed. Person A is alive but the house is gone.

Meanwhile down the road Person B, with the same surrounding unknowns about their status, isn't so lucky. Fire catches them at the top of the paddock and then changes direction with the wind. Person B is dead but their home is intact.

Person A had a lot of good memories in that home, but it can be rebuilt. A home admittedly is harder to replace than a house (emotional attachment, you see? A house becomes a home through the lives lived within it) but it can be done. Emotional detachment can be reapplied anew.

Person B is dead. The home they had around them is dead too. The structure becomes a house once more and the possessions within become mere objects of various uses. It is a shelter, but nothing more than bricks and mortar without someone to assign emotional value to it.

Stripped of all subjective inflection what is truly worth more, the human life or the physical property?
Once you truly learn to strip that subjection inflection and see things more objectively, you can probably answer that question for yourself. You're thinking small-scale.
Where does your assessment of the value of human life come from?
 

Ghost Patrol

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A leader can be corrupt and authoritarian without being fascist. You don't understand that?

This is a stupid thing to say. Being right-wing doesn't automatically make someone a fascist.

If you want to talk about ideology, then that's an even harder sell. What is Trump's ideology? Is it demonstrably fascist?

Trump is a conman who'll say anything to serve his own narrow self-interest. It seems unlikely to me that he cares at all about any other guiding principles or vision that fascists might otherwise embrace.

I'm not the one assigning the label. If you think Trump is a fascist, then you should be able to say what you mean by that.

What do you mean by fascist?

Or are you just throwing the word around because you know it's bad, regardless of whether you can explain what it means or whether it's accurate?

Who's the idiot in that scenario?

This is incoherent.

The list is pointless because it doesn't define fascism distinctly. It presents a number of characteristics that could describe any number of regimes. Those characteristics don't define fascism distinctly. Read that again slowly if you must.

Try to connect the dots instead of rambling nonsensically.
What do you mean by fascist? Which definition are you using?
 

Gough

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