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Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 17, 2019
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I'm not calling anyone a fascist. If you want to call Trump a fascist, you should be able to say what you mean by that.

Which part of that confounds you?

You get dumber every day.
Ok, so you don't know what it means. Glad we got to the bottom of this SJ

Moving forward, perhaps you could do a bit less projection, and a bit more reflection?
 

Sweet Jesus

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Ok, so you don't know what it means. Glad we got to the bottom of this SJ
I'm quite happy to discuss what does and doesn't constitute fascism and whether that label applies to Trump. But I'm not the one seeking to apply the label.

If you want to call Trump a fascist, you should be able to say what you mean by that. That burden belongs to whoever is making that claim. Otherwise, WTF are you talking about?

You, of course, wouldn't be able to do that because you don't know anything.

Moving forward, perhaps you could do a bit less projection, and a bit more reflection?
You're so desperate for my attention.

The problem is that every post advertises your cluelessness. You're so easily dismissed.

Just go back to sitting quietly in the corner.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 17, 2019
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I'm quite happy to discuss what does and doesn't constitute fascism and whether that label applies to Trump. But I'm not the one seeking to apply the label.

If you want to call Trump a fascist, you should be able to say what you mean by that. That burden belongs to whoever is making that claim. Otherwise, WTF are you talking about?

You, of course, wouldn't be able to do that because you don't know anything.

You're so desperate for my attention.

The problem is that every post advertises your cluelessness. You're so easily dismissed.

Just go back to sitting quietly in the corner.
Ok. What constitutes fascism, and why don't you think that label applies to Trump?

Which qualities (or virtues, if you prefer) exclude Trump from the fascist label?
 

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Sweet Jesus

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Ok. What constitutes fascism, and why don't you think that label applies to Trump?

Which qualities exclude Trump from the fascist label?
Fascists generally want a highly ordered, highly militarised, highly mobilised state. Yes, Trump is keen on military spending but he doesn't seek to remake and mobilise society as an extension of the military. He is basically isolationist and appears to have no real appetite for foreign wars. And he favours chaotic governance and personal liberty over the rigid order and state control generally favoured by fascists. Nor does Trump give any indication that he has any ideological moorings whatsoever beyond his own narrow self-interest, as opposed to the intense ideological underpinnings of a truly fascist state.

Read this and get back to me...


What do you mean when you call Trump a fascist?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Fascists generally want a highly ordered, highly militarised, highly mobilised state. Yes, Trump is keen on military spending but he doesn't seek to remake and mobilise society as an extension of the military. He is basically isolationist and appears to have no real appetite for foreign wars. And he favours chaotic governance and personal liberty over the rigid order and state control generally favoured by fascists.

Read this and get back to me...


In the meantime, what do you mean when you call Trump a fascist?
Trump was on the precipice of fascism before the insurrection. Thats what tipped him over the edge.

This article is from October, a lot has changed since then.

 

Sweet Jesus

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Trump was on the precipice of fascism before the insurrection.
But you still can't say what you mean by fascism, so what are you talking about?

It's just a label you choose to apply because it sounds bad but you can't say what it means. It's nonsense.

The article you've linked to is basically several experts more or less agreeing with me.

Is this really your best effort?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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But you still can't say what you mean by fascism, so what are you talking about?

It's just a label you choose to apply because it sounds bad but you can't say what it means. It's nonsense.
Trump fits the definition. Many of his biggest fans are nazis. Not that they'll be waving those flags in public any time soon.

1611437735215.png
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Pointing out that you don't know anything doesn't make anyone a "fascism apologist".

You typed fascism into Google and that's the extent of your grasp on the topic.

I didn't expect you to prove me right so quickly. You really are spectacularly dense.
So you have lived experience with fascism? Please elaborate further.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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you are still debating the definition of facism a week later? Please just stop. Arent you bored of the topic yet?
Pointing and calling everyone dumb is not really debating. It's more like Trump's performance in the first debate.

Apparently SJ is unable to define fascism without using google.
 

Slartibartfast

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A leader can be corrupt and authoritarian without being fascist. You don't understand that?

This is a stupid thing to say. Being right-wing doesn't automatically make someone a fascist.

If you want to talk about ideology, then that's an even harder sell. What is Trump's ideology? Is it demonstrably fascist?

Trump is a conman who'll say anything to serve his own narrow self-interest. It seems unlikely to me that he cares at all about any other guiding principles or vision that fascists might otherwise embrace.

I'm not the one assigning the label. If you think Trump is a fascist, then you should be able to say what you mean by that.

What do you mean by fascist?

Or are you just throwing the word around because you know it's bad, regardless of whether you can explain what it means or whether it's accurate?

Who's the idiot in that scenario?

This is incoherent.

The list is pointless because it doesn't define fascism distinctly. It presents a number of characteristics that could describe any number of regimes. Those characteristics don't define fascism distinctly. Read that again slowly if you must.

Try to connect the dots instead of rambling nonsensically.
You cannot defend Trump so you are caught up in defending the title applied to him.

Your inability to understand the word fascist is your problem and no one else’s.
 

kranky al

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Violence associated with any right wing protest seems to generate a huge reaction compared to violence associated with a left wing protest.

Right now there is vandalism going on across multiple cities and it is barely a blip on the radar because nobody expects any better from violent leftists and this type of thing is so damn common from them.

The moment any violence occurs at a right wing protest the reaction from people not sympathetic to their politics is huge. Hence why before the capitol breach many left leaning poster on here had to keep referring to Charlottesville due to a single scumbag with their car.

They can refer to these events easily because they are so few and far between in combination with the huge coverage that you can remember them easily.

Violent left wing related protests happen so often that you would not even know where to start when citing examples and if they created a list they would look like this.


It also seems most incidents of violence I see at right wing protests involve "counter protesters" showing up to start a fight.

If a protest is right wing only without agitators showing up to fight there is less chance of violence compared to many left with protests where the presence of counter protesters is not needed to kick off violence and damage. The presence of another persons property is enough to kick things off.
Perhaps if you were to compare deaths caused between both and understood that metric tends to make the media a little more interested.
 

kranky al

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"It's just an idea..."
Well yeah it is.

You can be a republican and be antifa

My grandads were antifa - one was a lifelong labor voter the other a dyed in the wool liberal voter. They killed fascists. It kinda crosses boundaries.

Im a swinging voter and im antifa

Unlike say being a communist or a socialist or a fascist where they are an actual movement - anti fascism is an idea because it crosses and joins people from various ideologies.
 

ferball

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Fair enough, I'll be as objective as I can. Meet Person A. An adult of unknown age, unknown gender, unknown ethnicity and unknown occupation. Person A's financial status is also unknown but lets say that Person A owns a house and some property up the bush. A random lightning strike causes a bushfire and Person A's home is destroyed. Person A is alive but the house is gone.

Meanwhile down the road Person B, with the same surrounding unknowns about their status, isn't so lucky. Fire catches them at the top of the paddock and then changes direction with the wind. Person B is dead but their home is intact.

Person A had a lot of good memories in that home, but it can be rebuilt. A home admittedly is harder to replace than a house (emotional attachment, you see? A house becomes a home through the lives lived within it) but it can be done. Emotional detachment can be reapplied anew.

Person B is dead. The home they had around them is dead too. The structure becomes a house once more and the possessions within become mere objects of various uses. It is a shelter, but nothing more than bricks and mortar without someone to assign emotional value to it.

Stripped of all subjective inflection what is truly worth more, the human life or the physical property?
During the fires 18 months to a year ago we would tell people who didn't want to evacuate to scratch their name and DOB into a five cent piece and swallow it before the fire arrived. For ease of identification. No one stayed to defend a home they could rebuild after we told them that.
 

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