Alternate guernsey designs

[topdon]

Fuuck Dan....that was one mutha of a post!!

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by Dan

It's got a lot to do with it. Why? Because people, are claiming that the AFL are doing it
for the money. Why would they be doing it for the money, when the amount they would
make from an alternate guenrseny would be chicken feed? Obviously the club would sell
the new jumper. They'd be stupid not to. But that is a bonus.

That doesn't alter our view that the changes are bad for the game. Bad in that they are changing the look of the game. And I, along with most other people in this thread, and probably most other football followers, do believe this is bad. And this is what we are debating. You raised a good example below when you mentioned Essendon Vs Collingwood. If you must know, and if you can't tell by my argument; then yes - it does bother me that Collingwood have changed their guernsey. Why? For the same reason it bothers me that Essendon may have to change theirs - all for the bullsh!t rubbish reason of an, arguable, "colour clash".

I agree. I don't want the jumper changed. But this is not a club issue. It is an AFL issue.
Looking atthe big picture, the jumper should be changed for the good of the game. But
only for two games a year when there is a colour clash.

"For the good of the game?" Since when did your opinion of what is good for the game become the correct opinion? Are you telling me that the jumpers should be changed for, what you believe, is "the good of the game"?

I'm am not saying that I am right when i say that the jumper shouldn't be changed. I'm simply saying that that's my opinion, and also simply pointing out that it is the opinion shared by the majority of people in this thread, and most likely, people in general.

Just because it wasn't an issue in 1900 does not mean it isn't an issue now.

Why? Who said it was an issue now? The same people who said that players bumping into umpires was an issue all of a sudden? The same people who change the rules every year? The same people who believe that we should name the 1st placed team at the end of the H&A season the "Premiers" and then play a useless "finals" system afterwards?

The bottom line is, it's become an issue,

Has it? To whom?

and 13 of the 16 clubs (including Carlton even) agree that
alternate jumpers are necessary for one or two games a year.

And let's not forget that Carlton are the same club that played in a light blue disgrace of a jumper all for a cheap tasteless M&M's promotion.

Those people that want to easily tell the difference between the teams care. Now, I
could tell the difference between St.Kilda and Essendon two weeks ago. But if there was
a jumble of 10 players around the ball, and all the players were in motion, it was
sometimes difficult to ascertian just how many Essendon players were in the pack. Both
teams had red, white and black (we had white shorts.) Both teams should be
immediately distinguishable.

They are immediately distinguishable - they wear different jumpers. We play on well drained grounds these days. I remember when the only time you heard about the so-called "colour clashes" were games like Essendon Vs St Kilda in the mud pit at Moorabbin.

Another thing - (and i think somebody else has brought this up already) - if "colour clashes" are the real reason behind a compulsory 2nd jumper, why are clubs like Hawthorn required to have a 2nd jumper? Why are Essendon being asked to have an alternate Ansett Cup jumper? What, are the AFL planning on matching up Essendon versus St Kilda and Melbourne twice?

The fact that all the other clubs are being asked to have 2nd (and even 3rd) jumpers kind of makes your "colour clash" argument even more doubtfull.

I actually remember a St.Kilda-Essendon match at
Waverley in 1998, where players handballed to the oppositon on a couple of occasions.
Gary Moorcroft did it against Melbourne last year too.

Big deal. It's part of football. Have you actually ever played football? Or are you one of these people who knows everything about the game despite having never actually played it?

What's to stop Gary Moorcroft running past David Schwartz and calling for the handball? Do you think that doesn't happen? I suppose you'll want ban that too, and report players for 'fraudulent play'?

Who is to say they are going to be wanky artsy f*cked up jumpers? Stop assuming!
The clubs themselves will design the jumpers (not the AFL) and then the clubs will
submit those design to the AFL.

LOL Take a look at some of the disgraceful jumpers we've been priviliged enough to lay eyes on over the past few years! All approved by the AFL. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Another thing - I believe colour clashes are much worse now anyway. Clubs are cluttering up their guernseys with fancy patterns (and generally darker designs) making it harder for people in the stands to actually see who's who. COLOUR CLASHES ARE WORSE THANKS TO ALL THESE MAGNIFICENT NEW JUMPERS.

Anybody else agree?

All we need is a jumper with more red than black. It
could simply be a reverse jumper.

Somebody has already told you to go and look at the reverse jumper on the other page of this thread. Obviously you didn't listen, so i'll tell you again:

Go and have a look at the reverse jumper on the other page of this thread.

If you think that jumper is acceptable, then i can safely say that you have no idea.

So? And how will that affect the sport? When was the last time ManU and Arsenal wore
their traditional jumpers against each other? NEVER! Does it affect the passion of the
supporters? No, of course not!

Are we discussing soccer?

It is quite possible we will never ever again play Collingwood in their traditional jumper
with black numbers on a white background. This year they have "reversed " their jumper.
I don't recall any sadness from you that no Dons-Pies game ever again will ever have
the traditional Magpie colours versus the Bombers.

Ah! So you "have no time for people who can't back up what they say, and spend all thier time assuming and guessing" yet here you are assuming that it doesn't bother me that Collingwood changed their jumper? It certainly didn't look like a question. And you were calling me a hypocrite were you?

This has got nothing to do with English Soccer.

Then stop comparing the two games.

This has got nothing to do with the game of Australian Football. All we are talking about
is what teams are wearing. The actual game itself is irrelevant to this discussion.

Then why don't we just dress the players up in Armani suits, since it apparently has nothing to do with the game? White suits for the away team - dark suits for the home team. It could be like chess. No chance of a colour clash there.

The game is all about the jumpers. (Think about that and you'll find it's true.)

That sounds hypocritical to me. YOU don't respect what I say. Yep, hypocritical.

Ha! But you don't respect anything anybody has to say.

As for the rest of your post; I would just like to see some things stay the same. Just as i hope to god that Test cricketers never wear coloured clothes.

Am i a traditionalist? Yeah. And is that a bad thing?

How much is 125 years of history worth?

How much is it worth to be able to see Essendon & Collingwood line up in their original guernseys?

Footy isn't just a rule book you know.

cheers.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by gPhonque
That doesn't alter our view that the changes are bad for the game. Bad in that they are changing the look of the game.

Look of the game? It's not like teams are coming out in their non-traditional colours. There is no indication that teams wil change theit actual colours. How is it bad for the game? Will people stop going to the footy? Will teams be unable to win premierships with their new jumpers? Will people stop watching on TV? How is it bad for the game? Give me some proof that the game of Aussie Rules will be in a worse state when we wear our new jumper. It's bad for the game if the game is worse off. Tell me how the game will be worse off. Tell me. Give me some proof.

Originally posted by gPhonque
"For the good of the game?" Since when did your opinion of what is good for the game become the correct opinion?

My opinion is just that. My opinion.

Originally posted by gPhonque
Are you telling me that the jumpers should be changed for, what you believe, is "the good of the game"?

Yes. For two games a year, to avoid the colour clash that presents itself when we play St.Kilda. For the good of the competition.

Originally posted by gPhonque
Why? Who said it was an issue now?

It isn't just an issue now. It's been an issue for a number of years, but the AFL havn't done anything about it. Probably because they don't see it as a big deal. I don't see us changing our jumper for two games per year as a big deal either. You are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's been brought up in the media (only occasionally by the AFL themselves) at various times over the last 10 years.

Originally posted by gPhonque
Has it? To whom?

You are aking who has it become an issue to. For Gods sake man, have a look. The fact that it is being discussed so fervently in the media should tell you that it is an issue.

Originally posted by gPhonque
They are immediately distinguishable - they wear different jumpers.

This is a dead-set idiotic comment from you. I gave you the logical explanation that a pack of Essendon and St.Kilda players all moving closely together resembles a mess of red, white, and black. You "mock" the comment, and embarrass yourself, by using sarcasm. You say : "They are immediately distinguishable - they wear different jumpers.

Obviously they wear different jumpers. Duh! But the jumpers have the same colours on them. When there is a big pack of players, it is hard to count exactly how many Bombers players there are without making the "effort" to count. Normally, against, say, North Melbourne we can tell at a "glance" how many Essendon players are around the ball. We don't need to make the effort to count. Against St.Kilda we had to make the effort. We shouldn't have to make the effort. As our eyes scan the play, we should be able to tell at a "glance" which team is which.

Obviosuly, if we come out with red, white, and black, and the Saints wear red, white and black, then there are going to be times, where a pack of players makes it hard to instantaneously distinguish between the two teams.

Teams should be immediately distinguishable at a glance. Players often have to give away a quick handball out of the corner of their eye. They don't have time to look. They have to make the decison after a quick "glance". Obviously, if all 36 players have red, white and black on them then errors are more frequent.

Originally posted by gPhonque
Big deal. it's part of football

Stupid comment. You said this in relation to Gary Moorcroft handballing to a Melbourne player last year in Round 9. Colour clashes are part of football are they? Well at least you admit there are colour clashes. Moorcroft admitted on radio after that game that he had mistaken the red and dark blue (nearly black) jumper for a teammate. He made a mistake due to the similarity of the jumpers. Don't assume that he didn't. It's a fact that he did - he said so. If you think players handballing to opponents due to them thinking they are teammates because of similar jumpers is part of football, then that is a part of football we don't want!

Originally posted by gPhonque
Have you actually ever played football? Or are you one of these people who knows everything about the game despite having never actually played it?

Yes, I have played it. Once again, you are assuming and guessing. I have no time for people who assume and guess. Back up what you say.

Originally posted by gPhonque
Then stop comparing the two games

Look. Soccer is a different sport, but the "principle" of the jumper changes is the same. The sport is irrelevant, it's the principle. Changing a jumper is NOT changing the sport. It's a clothing item. It's relevant to use the soccer example because they started having alternate jumpers long before there were any financial spin-offs. The jumpers were made with the SOLE reason to differentiate between teams with similar colours.

Originally posted by gPhonque
But you don't repect anything, anyone has to say.

Yes I do. I just don't agree with you.

Once again, you have given me your ramble about how much tradition is worth. Explain to me how we lose our tradition again?

We will still wear red and black for all 22 games.

We will still be the Essendon Football Club

We will still have the same history, and will continue to add to it.

We will still be able to strive for premeirships

We will still be supporteed by the same people.

Think about it, man! When we moved to the MCG in 1992, I suppose you still wanted to be at Windy Hill for the sake of "tradition" How does the tradition of the club get affected by playing at the MCG in 1992? How? HOW? We are still the same club, right? Still being able to strive for premeirships, and being supported by the same people, right? Were we worse off by playing at the MCG? Because we stopped the tradition of playing at Windy Hill, I suppose you must logically think (using your logic) that the club went downhill.

Same story with the jumper change next year. How will it affect tradition? TELL ME. HOW WILL THE CLUB BE WORSE OFF?

We will still be the same club, with the same colours, in the same league, striving for premierships, with the same history. What price traditon, you ask? What the hell do you mean? How does changing the jumper for two games affect the history or tradition? How? You seem to think that the jumper is the "sport" of Aussie Rules. A jumper is a jumper. Changing a jumper is NOT changing the sport. If we put a rule in to stop flooding, then that is changing the sport. If we force a club to play in a mainly red jumper with a bit of black twice a year, that is NOT CHANGING THE BLOODY SPORT.

You are a dead-set dinosaur. You are probably one of those fans that want the VFL back, and want to get rid of Sydney and Brisbane, even though those two cities are in states that comprise 60% of Australias population and are vital for the growth of the game of Aussie Rules.

Well you had better get used to the jumper change, because it will happen, for a couple of games every year for the next 100 years. Oh my god, how will we all live?

 

[Smokin]

Here we go again!! lol

About 15 of us watched Carlscum-Port on Sunday and we all found the jumpers a little too close. Yea, when you look hard you can distinguish them, but it makes you focus on the bloody jumpers and not the game. Then there is the issue with the sun/shaded areas of the ground, and sometimes its impossible to tell who's who. Its probably a bigger issue on tv than live, but it is a problem and if anybody says its not, is kidding themselves.

I cant see how changing the jumper is an AFL marketing ploy, as Essendon would gain the most from this, not the AFL. This argument is riddiculous IMO.

The Essendon FC has changed its jumper in the past, and is going to be forced to change its jumper again. It wont change its colours, simply the location of those colours.

And not going to watch Essendon because the AFL has forced Essendon to alter the location of its colours is the most childish, almost unbelievable comment Ive heard in a while! What a load of crap!

It is stupid to look at this issue from the viewpoint of the EFC, because the EFC doesnt want to change! Thats FACT, if the EFC had its way it wouldnt change. Most people here are looking at this from Essendons viewpoint - thats stupid because ESSENDON DOESNT WANT TO CHANGE!

This is an AFL issue - Essendon is simply one of 16 clubs in the AFL. The AFl cant say "this team must change, but that one doesnt" - it must make a uniform rule if it wants to get rid of this problem. Essendon shouldnt get special treatment and were not gonna!!

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Dan25
My poitn was that while we only wear one guernsey, we still cash in on 143 different clothing designs. Making it 144 is nearly irrelevant. We already cash in on alternate jumper anyway - training jumpers which can be bought.

Exactly, they are TRAINING tops. How many different TRAINING tops has the club had in it's history Dan? 10? 20? 100? How many match day jumpers? ONE! Spot the difference yet?

The fact that the CLUB makes money out of these 143 items is irrelevant to the AFL's desire to make more money out of another jumper. Do you understand the difference between the club & the AFL? Essendon makes money out of the various paraphanelia that is sold through the club, not the AFL, and most of these items would be sold through the club (I haven't seen 143 items on sale at Kmart!). The AFL will make more money out of a new jumper because jumpers are the biggest selling item at outlets like Kmart etc.

Obviosuly the AFL will make some cash out of the alternate jumpers (duh!) But that is a bonus to the main issue of avoiding a colour clash.

You've got that arse about Dan. Avoiding the so-called clashes is the "bonus" associated with making lots of extra money. That's not a guess, it's a fact. A fact proven by all the decisions taken by the league over the past ten years. Colonial. Reserved seats in the AFL at the GF despite most members opposition. Removing the $2 rebate for away club members. Awarding the tv rights to the highest bidder despite their past record of mistreating sports they have the rights to. Scrapping the reserves. They have all been decision made with the dollars to be made being the central factor.

Not guessing at all Dan.

They have just signed a 100 million dollar tv rights deal. Making a few thousand bucks from the sale of an alternate jumper (how many would buy it anyway) is only gioing to make them a small amount of money (in relative terms) The main issue is to avoid clour clashes.

Rubbish. It doesn't matter how much money they make from TV rights sales. They are never satisfied with what they've got. They will always want more. The AFL have shown that in that regard they're no different from any other business. When presented with the concerns of fans this year Wayne Jacksons response was to the effect that crowds were growing and "we only ever hear this stuff from Melbourne anyway". Sounds like an organisation that's really has the best interests of it's customers (that's us Dan) at heart.

Dave, as for the Ansett Cup design, the club themsevles have said no to that. There is no point.

Exactly, so WHY did the league demand it in the first place? If it wasn't to avoid a so-called jumper clash what was it's purpose? Could it have been, shocking concept I know, money? Or is that a guess? Seems fairly logical to me, and given that it throws significant doubt on the altruism of their other demands no matter how you attempt to spin it.

If the AFL didn't care about the colour clash and only cared about the money, then they wouldn't care what the new design is, right? But they do care, because they have to approve the design first!

Obviously if a new team comes in they cannot have a jumper that's the same as an existing one. That does not mean that jumper clashes are the leagues number one concern. If they didn't care about marketing why did they advise Freo to come up with a non traditional style guernsey incorporating colors that had not been traditionally associated with football clubs?

The AFL are using the so-called jumper clash issue as a red herring and nothing more.

We will not be changng our colours We will only be changing the amount of red and black on the jumper.

That remains to be seen. It's not a fait accompli.

And we will only be doing it for two games a year.

Yeah, just like there'd be no lockouts at Colonial...just like all victorian teams would have their interstate games televised in full. Am I guessing that they'll be no more trustworthy on this issue than any other, or is a track record of broken promises a good inidication that an organisation cannot be trusted?

If you didn't have a problem witht the Essendon-St.Kilda match then you must be very special.

I wish. Just a normal bloke who hasn't been sucked in by the AFL's publicity machine. I've been going to the footy for over 25 years and I had more trouble telling players apart in the old days when we played on mud heaps than I ever have these days.

We wore red, white and black (white shorts.) St.KIoda wore red, white and black. Now, I could tell the teams apart, obviosuly, but it wasn't immediately apparent if you were taking a quick glance at a pack of players around the ball.

I don't take quick glances at the football. I watch it continuously. Perhaps that's why the AFL think there's such a problem, they're full of people who only glance at the football.

If you guys don't want to suppor the club anynore when they change next year, fine. I'll still be supporting "ESSENDON." We will still be wearing red and black (just with more red for two games a year) and I will support the "CLUB" no matter what. [/B]

I didn't say I wouldn't be supporting the club. But I will take action if the AFL orverride the wishes of the membership in their endless pursuit of the allmighty dollar. AND I can respect Wally if he believes the issue is worth taking a stand such as not attending those games. Actually, given they are away games he wont be hurting the club at all as the gate for those matches goes to the other team. Hadn't thought of that had you Dan?

It's OUR club, OUR jumper and THEY have no right to force us to change it simply because THEY want to make a extra buck or two.
It's not in the best interests of the game, it's in the best interests of the AFL's bottom line. Well, THEY can get stuffed.


You are also wrong about tradition being history and history always being with us. Essendon have a tradition of always having worn the same jumper for every competitive match they've ever played. If that is taken away, how is the tradition still there? If we wear a different jumper, how is that tradition maintained? Even if the history is there the tradition is not. Once broken, gone forever.


You still haven't answered my question about what's changed either Dan. Why is it an issue now when it wasn't 100, or even 50 years ago? Are people today less intelligent? Do we have worse eyesight? Lower attention spans? What's changed?


Your comments re Windy Hill are not a valad comparision as the club didn't always play there either. We've had a number of different home grounds, we've only ever had one competition jumper. But yes, football at colonial or even the MCG is not quite the same as it was at the Hill. And it does sadden me that I will never be able to take my son to the footy there the way my dad did and his dad did before him. There was an atmosphere there that just is not the same these days. It may not be something that can be quantified into dollars and cents or premiership points, but it is something that is very important to me nonetheless.


You want to know how the club will be worse off Dan? I'll tell you. We'll have lost a tradition that's marks us as unique amongst all the clubs currently in the AFL competition. Obviously to you that's not a "big deal" but to a number of the rest of us seeing the club lose a little of it's soul is a big deal. The identity of our club is made up of it's history and tradition. Lose too much of it and you lose what it is that differentiates us from any other club.
That is what is important to me. Why do you think Freo are struggling? Because they are an artificial club with no culture, no history and no tradition. They'd have been better off admitting one of the two wafl freo clubs. No, changing the jumper wont mean the club is unrecognisable from that which it is today, but it's yet another step down the path Dan. It's one step closer to being so. It's a step that will enable in future people to say "it's no big deal, after all we already changed our jumper once before" in the same manner that you have used the move from Windy Hill in your arguments. It's one step down a path I'd rather not see us take. That doesn't make me a dinosaur Dan, it simply makes me a member who doesn't want to see his clubs tradition pissed away in the pursuit of the dollar. It makes me a member who cherishes our clubs identity. Who thinks it's great that we can say, see that jumper, we've played in that every game in every competition we've ever played in and I don't want to see it changed. Who wants to be able to take his son to the footy and have him see the side wearing the same jumper every time, as they did when he went to his first game. Who wants to be able to give his grandson the first jumper he ever wore and not have him say "That's not our jumper grandad", or "I want the other jumper Grandad". That's important to me Dan and if you think that makes me worth less to the club as a member than you then so be it.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Smokin
The Essendon FC has changed its jumper in the past

Once, and before we started playing competition football. We have played every competitive match in the same jumper since 1877.

And you and Dan are wrong. There is no problem. You said it yourself, you could tell the difference, it was just harder. Well boo hoo, you've got to put some effort into it. Excuse me if I believe that changing our colors because some people can't be bothered making an effort is not worthwhile or in the "best interests of the game".

 

[gPhonque]

Thankyou Dave.

 

[Dave]

gPhonque,

cheers mate.

As you can tell I'm fairly fired up about this one.

 

[M29]

Top stuff Dave.

Dan I suppose your one of those people as well that beleive that the Team of The Century things aren't a marketting ploy as well.

 

[Anton Grbac]

Originally posted by Smokin

And not going to watch Essendon because the AFL has forced Essendon to alter the location of its colours is the most childish, almost unbelievable comment Ive heard in a while! What a load of crap!

Are you insinuating that i'm a liar?
Look, i take out a Silver membership each year as well as annual seats at Colonial and the MCG for our 11 home games. This year the cost was around $380.00. No doubt it will rise again next year. This membership doesn't cover away games. As Dave pointed out, all money at the gate goes to the home team.
I can't see how i'm hurting our club by not attending away games when the $$$ goes to the other mob. This may seem "childish" and a crock of sh!t to the likes of you and Dan. But i don't care, it's my money, and i'll attend games when i see fit.

Also, I don't believe this "it's for the good of the game" crap for one second. Every decision the AFL is a business decision based on profit....read Dave's post. Joe Public's feelings and opinions are not an issue. Wayne Jackson and his mates have picked up the baton from Oakley, willing to spin any line or sell anything to bleed every last cent from him.

Football costs enough as it is, i refuse to give 'em any more than i already do. If that means not attending games (yes Dan, finals included) 'cause i don't approve of Wayne Jackson's decision to change our jumper then so be it. Christ knows, i wouldn't be the first bloke to become disillusioned with the way the game's headed, and i sure as sh!t wouldn't be the last. I am finished with this subject.

where's wally?

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Wally
Football costs enough as it is, i refuse to give 'em any more than i already do. If that means not attending games (yes Dan, finals included) 'cause i don't approve of Wayne Jackson's decision to change our jumper then so be it. Christ knows, i wouldn't be the first bloke to become disillusioned with the way the game's headed, and i sure as sh!t wouldn't be the last. I am finished with this subject.

Amen! Bloody well said Wally.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Dave
You've got that arse about Dan. Avoiding the so-called clashes is the "bonus" associated with making lots of extra money. That's not a guess, it's a fact

No, it's a guess. The AFL has said that they want to aviod the issue of colour clashes. You are assuming and guessing that they are lying. Do you make a habit of deliberatley not believeing what you are told? Your credibility is in tatters, because you are deliberatley not believing the AFL, and then you pass of your "guesses" and "assumptions" as a fact.

Very poor Dave,

Originally posted by Dave
A fact proven by all the decisions taken by the league over the past ten years.

That doesn't prove it, you dill

Originally posted by Dave
Reserved seats in the AFL at the GF despite most members opposition.

Wrong. AFL Members were asked to vote. I know this because I received a voting form. Most members elected to have reserved seats for the Grand Final for a small cost. (I voted for first in, first served by the way)

I suppose you are going to "assume" that they rigged the results now?

Originally posted by Dave
That does not mean that jumper clashes are the leagues number one concern. If they didn't care about marketing why did they advise Freo to come up with a non traditional style guernsey incorporating colors that had not been traditionally associated with football clubs?

They asked Freo to come up with a marketable desing so that they could sell it. Duh! Do you think if Freo weren't given this ultimatum, that they would have come up with a boring, non-financial design? Given that they are a new club, it is in their best interested to come up with something appealing.

And I never said jumper clashes were the leagues number one concern. But they are a concern, nevertheless.

Originally posted by Dave
The AFL are using the so-called jumper clash issue as a red herring and nothing more.

Rubbish. You are assumng and guessing, as always. I'm telling you the financial benefits are microscopic compared to the total merchandising revenue. It's not worth the AFL incurring so much wrath unless they have another agenda. The agenda they have is to avoid colour clahes. The fact that they will be able to reap the financial benefits will be a bonus.

Dave, if the AFL ONLY cared about the money, then they wouldn't care what design clubs came up with, as long as they could be sold in K-Mart's, right? But the AFL have explicitly stated that clubs must come up with designs that do not clash with the opposition. Is it that hard to accept that the AFL might just not want to have clour clashes?

Look at me as an example. If I worked at the AFL, I would suggest that all clubs have a jumper to avoid clashes. I wouldn't be recommending it for the money at all. Why wouldn't there be someone like me in the AFL? Sure, they will reap the financial rearrds. Good on 'em. But that is a BONUS. You can't just call someone (the AFL) a liar without any proof.

Originally posted by Dave
Am I guessing that they'll be no more trustworthy on this issue than any other, or is a track record of broken promises a good inidication that an organisation cannot be trusted?

This has got nothing to do with those other issues. This is a separate issue. You're being far too cynical. All they are doing is ensuring that teams won't clash. All sports do it. many other sports did it long before the financial spin-offs, but do you bring this up? No!

Originally posted by Dave
I don't take quick glances at the football. I watch it continuously. Perhaps that's why the AFL think there's such a problem, they're full of people who only glance at the football.

This is an idiotic comment. If you don't think there is a problem with "dark and red" (Essendon-Melbourne) all over the field, then you are blind. It's not a major football issue but it is an issue.

You also ask why it hasn't been a problem before. It has been a problem, and it has been brought up at various times over the last 15 years. Jumper changes have not been seen as being a big issue (I don't think it is a big issue), so nothing has ever been done. The bottom line is, it is a problem now (cause I say it is) and it is time we make changes for two games a year.

Originally posted by Dave
It's not in the best interests of the game

Yes it is.

Originally posted by Dave
You are also wrong about tradition being history and history always being with us. Essendon have a tradition of always having worn the same jumper for every competitive match they've ever played. If that is taken away, how is the tradition still there? If we wear a different jumper, how is that tradition maintained? Even if the history is there the tradition is not. Once broken, gone forever.

And how will it affect the football club? How will it be bad for the game?

For God's sake tell me! If we wear a red jumper with a bit of black for two games a year, it will mean we will have stopped the continuous "black with red sash" design. So, what? It's only for two games a year.

The club will still be the sme club, right? The club will still have the same supporters. We will still be striving to win premierships, and we will still be red and black. What is the problem? How will we be worse off?

How will you, or I be worse off? How will the club be worse off?

You annoy me so much because you write your post with the implication that it will be bad for the club if we change our jumper for two games a year. HOW IN THE BLOODY HELL WILL IT BE BAD FOR THE CLUB? What will happen that will make the club worse off? We will still wear the traditional jumper for 20 games a year, right? So what's the problem?

Carlton changed their jumper for the first time EVER in 1998 with the light blue. Admittedly this was for money, but how was this bad for them? How was the "break of tradition" bad for the club? They are still one of the great clubs, and they have continued to wear their traditionl jumper ever since? What has happened since that break in tradiiton in 1998, that has been so terrible for Carlton, or the AFL? How have they been worse off? How have their fans been worse off? The answer, Dave is the NO ONE has been worse off. You "emotional" story does not explain how anybody will be worse off. You are just telling how much you love the jumper (as I do). You are actually telling me any reasons why we will be worse off.

You also say that the AFL could make us wear the new design 11 times. This is the most stupid comment of all. IF you are right and the AFL were doing it solely for the money, how would they benefit if we wear it 11 times instead of two? How? If we wear it twice, we will still cash in on it, right? It will still be sold in K-Mart whether we wear it 11 times, or twice. How will we cash in more if we wear it 11 times? What do the AFL gain financially by making us wear it 11 times, instead of 2? I'll give you an example. ManU make extra jumpers for the money, right? But they only wear their alternate strip if there is a clash. Even if ManU are the away team, they still wear their normal red strip. The ONLY exception is, when they play another team that wears red.

Originally posted by Dave
Your comments re Windy Hill are not a valid comparision as the club didn't always play there either.

It IS a valid comparison. We stopped the 70 year tradition of playing there. How are we worse off? How are YOU worse off? HOW IS THE SPORT WORSE OFF?

Collingwod had been playing at Victoria Park since the VFL's inception in 1897. They stopped doing it in 1999? They stopped the tradition of playing at Victoria Park. How has this affected them? Are they worse off as a club now? Have people stopped supporting them becasue they moved to the MCG? Are they any less "great" as a club because they stopped the 102 year tradition?

Dave, you've got to understand Essendon has been a great club, with a great tradition of success. Part of the reason for that is that we respect our traditions but we DON'T remain stagnant. We move with the times when they are appropriate. Changing the jumper twice a year will not affect you or the club? It will simply allow the supporters to more easily distinguish between the teams. NO ONE WILL BE WORSE OFF. I repeat, no one will be worse off.

If we change our jumper twice a year, and do this for the next 100 years, what will happen over the next 100 years that you think will be so terrible? Tell me....what? The "reasons" you gave explaining how we wil be worse off are not reasons at all. I want REASONS, not an emotional story about how your grandfather and grandson love the jumper (which we will still wear for the next 100 years anyway)

 

[gPhonque]

F~ck this - i haven't finished yet:

Who the f~ck is Wayne Jackson? Who the f~ck does he think he is? How the f~ck did this embarressment of a human being get the right to waltz over here from Fairyland and decide that $$ are more important than our tradition-soaked 125 year old guernsey?

(excuse the language but i'm * i n g angry now. )

If i was big enough (he's a big bastard lol) and i saw him on the street, i'd f~cking deck him. Simple as that. Actually, f~ck it. I'll deck him anyway. He can't retaliate or he'll lose his job......

.....wait a sec, now there's a thought!!!! (silly rant ahead - don't take it seriously......unless you want to.... )

Ok - if every person promises to punch Jackson in the head, he'll be sure to hit one of us eventually. Now, i know that violence isn't supposed to solve anything, but when the problem is a meathead idiot like Wayne Jackson, can there be any other way?

(end mini rant)

(start next rant...)

Wally - you're definately not the 1st person to be disillusioned by where the game is going. I haven't been a member since '99 (no, it had nothing to do with Preliminary Final day. lol) The reason is because the game is a ghost of what it once was. It's plastic. It's not "footy" anymore. If i want to sit in my seat like a good little boy, i'll go to a bloody basketball game...... but i don't want to. I would like to be able to go to the football again one day. But not until it's in the hands of somebody who actually respects where this competition came from.

Jackson doesn't respect anything. This whole argument proves that.

My only hope for our game is that everybody cancels their memberships and the AFL go broke. Would they listen to people then? Of course they would! WE ARE THE GAME.

Without us, there is no AFL.

(Yet we are continually being ignored. Come on people, stand up against these idiots. If every Essendon member was to cancel their membership as a protest against the jumper change, do you think the jumper would still change next year......?)

As i said earlier Dan, football is not just a rule book. It's the jumpers; the people; the grounds; the traditions.

Footy's just not the same anymore, and all because of people like you Dan.

Can't we just have ONE YEAR where we leave the f~cking game alone????

It would maybe inspire me to renew my membership, and probably a lot of other people too.

Dan - as for calling me, and people who actually have a little respect for tradition "dinosaurs" - * Y O U.

What is wrong with continuing our great tradition? It is a good tradition is it not?

If our club tradition was to lose Grand Finals, then that would be something we would want to change. (hehe)

If our club tradition was to discriminate against Aboriginal people, THAT would be something we would want to change.

The Essendon FC has a rich tradition, and a big part of that is our jumper, and the fact that we have never changed it.

Colour clash my arse.

If you can't see, then * off and watch another sport.

Dan and Wayne Jackson are exactly alike. Both know that the majority of people DO NOT WANT Essendon to change their jumper, whether it be for 2 games a year, or 2 QUARTERS a year. We do NOT want it changed.

Yet both insist on ignoring everybody in order to get what they want.

And no Dan - i am not ignoring your view. I'm simply a part of the silent majority, the difference being that i'm speaking my mind.

Dan - NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER SAID YOUR FINALS IDEA IS GOOD.

And in my opinion, that makes you wrong. Just as you are wrong about our jumper.

Notice that, once again, it's Dan Vs The Rest?

Go and get a life Dan. Overseas preferably. And take your 'red with black sash' with you. And i want you to wear it on the plane. And i also want you to let me know when your flight leaves so i can come and p!ss myself laughing at you.

Good ****ing day.

 

[Dan26]

gPhonque,

What the hell has this got to do with my finals system? 13 of the 16 clubs agree with jumper changes, as do the AFL and thousands of supporters. Don't bring up irrelevant points.

Whether you are with me or against me, there is no excuse for the insulting garbage you just wrote in your last post. I am not going to respond to anything you write on this topic after what I am writing now, because you don't have any credibility with me whatsoever after that. You are one of those people that think they know a lot about football, but really knows nothing.

At least Dave presents a challenge for me, and is not insulting (well, not as insulting as you anyway)

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Dan25


...

Liverpoool came out in a yellow strip for the FA Cup final against Arsenal (both clubs are traditionally red). My god, the Liverpool fans must have been aghast

...

Actually Dan, it was YELLOW and BLACK!

And the same argument from a Richmond perspective...

Going to New Jersey - Tiger Tank

(This is the text of the document. You will need to take the link above to see the jumper designs. Sorry, I tried to make this as non spammy as possible.)

It would seem that the majority of Richmond supporters don't want to leave tradition and are against using a different "away" jersey.

While I admire their respect for club tradition (although I for one am beginning to take a different view on tradition - see Being Honest), some changes aren't necessarily a bad idea.
The fact of the matter is that there are colour clashes between some clubs, and that in this age of professional sport this is ridiculous. And if Richmond supporters are going to lecture, say, Melbourne supporters, about this issue then surely we should also 'do the right thing'.

Richmond's only obvious clashes are with Essendon, West Coast and Hawthorn - something that is usually accentuated when Richmond wears white shorts. And if it is an Essendon home game, for example, we can't expect Essendon to 'don' the white shorts.

As you all know, I reckon Richmond look sh!thouse in white shorts anyway (see Short Stories ). Unless the AFL gives Richmond special consideration to wear black shorts every week then this problem will not go away.

Richmond will continue to look tough when we play at home and insipid when we play away.

A logical solution is to design an away jumper that (shock!) actually looks good with white shorts. I know this is a 'revolutionary concept' but I'm sure it's not impossible.

Now I imagine that some Richmond supporters would want me executed for speaking such heresy (if the Tigers finish ninth again then feel free). But even proud, successful clubs like Manchester United wear away strips (some that aren't even in 'traditional' club colours), and from a merchandising perspective it is a proven money spinner for the club.

If you'll indulge me further, I have an idea of what I reckon the jumper could look like. (See left) I don't claim to be Michelangelo (or any other Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, for that matter) but I could see this work with white shorts. It the very least it looks nothing like an Essendon jumper.

One newspaper suggested that Richmond's alternative strip should be a simple inversion of gold with black sash. This looks even WORSE with white shorts. I would not let my children (if I had them) bear witness to such an abomination.


Still, what the jersey looks like is not the issue really. Yes, the classic Richmond jumper is sacred for home games, but supporters must be realistic. Jumper clashes are not 'good for the game', so to speak, and if a new jersey can pay at least some homage to the classic jersey, then that's fine by me.

 

[gPhonque]

You are the single most arrogant person i've ever.....well, i can't say "met".......seen.

What the hell has this got to do with my finals system? 13 of the 16 clubs agree with jumper changes, as do the AFL and thousands of supporters. Don't bring up irrelevant points.

It's not irrelevant at all. If a person is up on a murder charge and they have a history of violent behaviour, is that persons history deemed irrelevent to the case?

Of course not.

We're establishing behaviour patterns.

Your pattern is to argue with people. I was pointing out that you were convicted of being wrong. (ie. nobody agreed with you on your finals system. Nobody. Doesn't that mean anything to you?)

Therefore, is it so hard to believe that you could be wrong again?

Whether you are with me or against me, there is no excuse for the insulting garbage you just wrote in your last post.

And i apologize. But you shouldn't take it so seriously at the same time. This is just a message board you know.

God help you if i was to tell you what i really think of you. (LOL )

I am not going to respond to anything you write on this topic after what I am writing now, because you don't have any credibility with me whatsoever after that.

LOL! I remember saying that very thing to you in another thread.

You are one of those people that think they know a lot about football, but really knows nothing.

Did i not already say that to you earlier in this thread.....?

And also, what, may i ask, is your definition of somebody who "knows about football"?

Are you saying i need to know that there are 143 clothing items for sale or something do i?

Get a clue.

At least Dave presents a challenge for me, and is not insulting (well, not as insulting as you anyway)

Haha! Dave has shot you to pieces every time! Regurgitating the same post over & over doesn't cut it Dan.

cheers.

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Dave


...

My mum's over 60, wears glasses, and even she had no trouble telling who was who sitting in the top bloody deck!!! For crying out loud, you lose any credibility you had when you make outlandish claims like this Daniel.

...

Dave,

As you know I was once an umpire. I once umpired a game where Devon Meadows (St. Kilda - traditional jumper) hosted Hampton Park (Essendon - with white shorts)

It was an absolute nightmare.

Never mind you dear mum sitting in the top deck... I was only about 15 - 20 metres away from the players and had great difficulty telling them apart. Especially when they went into a pack (this was low grade football - their were heaps of packs). All I could see was this seething mass of red, black and white.

This is not an entirely new issue - as far as I can remember, people where bitching about this from in the 70's. I remember as a little tacker watching the Big League on a Saturday night (pre - color TV days) watching North Melbourne and Collingwood get about in their vertical stripe jumpers. You think that wasn't a problem!

When Dan mentioned about the mess that was Essendon/St. Kilda the other week, someone shot him down, saying players weren't exactly kicking it straight to the opposition. While not paying too much attention to that game at the time, I would expect Dan's assertion to be correct.

Only 2 weeks ago, we were playing Carlton. In the first quarter Joel Bowden gains possession in the half back line and rebounds out of defence. He was under no real pressure at the time but managed to pick out Silvagni who was 20m by himself in the centre square. Bowden (who is obviously a skilful kick) did not appear to miskick it - he actually spotted Silvagni's dark jumper and kicked straight too it. I kept count of the times during that game when a player turned a ball directly over to the opposition in similar circumstances. By my reckoning, this happened 6 times (3 each). It was embarrasing to watch (and thus increased by resolve to push for alternative jumpers!)

This same debate is raging amongst Richmond fans who are seemingly equally divided (and fired up) on this issue as it appears Essendon is.

We've had basically the same arguments go back and forth as I've read on this thread and have not made any headway in either direction.

Until some bloke (Calvin Wordsmith) wrote in with something very smart:

"While I think it is admirable for supporters in this day and age of corporatisation of the game to get sentimental in how they view our club's guernsey (which is without question the best in the league - he says totally unbiased !) it appears that some people may not appreciate the entire history of the Richmond Football Club.

The black with yellow sash is not the only guernsey Richmond have ever worn in competition. When formed in 1885 Richmond originally wore a guernsey with black and yellow vertical stripes. This jumper was also worn for our first game in the VFL in 1908.

In addition to this, the jumper was changed in 1995 by having the sash removed from the back to make the numbers more visible (a change I believe actually enhanced the look of the jumper). I don't remeber us members being consulted about such a move at the time.

The reality is that AFL clubs need to maximise every money making opportunity (in particular Victorian clubs) to remain competitive on the field. Think of the marketing opportunities associated with an away strip.

My suggestion is that in order to satisfy the traditionalists, we should have an away jumper based on Richmond's first it wore in competition in 1885 (they could even embroider a special Est. 1885 on the front). In this way we won't get left behind other clubs in the marketing sense, while we are paying homage to our past."

I near on stood up and applauded. How better to quell the traditionalist argument by going full on with tradition! We can look to the future whilelooking at the past at the same time.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by CJH
Dave,

As you know I was once an umpire. I once umpired a game where Devon Meadows (St. Kilda - traditional jumper) hosted Hampton Park (Essendon - with white shorts)

It was an absolute nightmare.

Never mind you dear mum sitting in the top deck... I was only about 15 - 20 metres away from the players and had great difficulty telling them apart. Especially when they went into a pack (this was low grade football - their were heaps of packs). All I could see was this seething mass of red, black and white.

Fair 'nuf, I'll take your word for it. I've never had too much trouble, infact the old days when Moorabin & Windy Hill were often mud heaps presented more of a challenge. Hampton park wear red&black vertical stripes don't they? MP league? Out my way!

This same debate is raging amongst Richmond fans who are seemingly equally divided (and fired up) on this issue as it appears Essendon is.

We've had basically the same arguments go back and forth as I've read on this thread and have not made any headway in either direction.

Until some bloke (Calvin Wordsmith) wrote in with something very smart:

"While I think it is admirable for supporters in this day and age of corporatisation of the game to get sentimental in how they view our club's guernsey (which is without question the best in the league - he says totally unbiased !) it appears that some people may not appreciate the entire history of the Richmond Football Club.

The black with yellow sash is not the only guernsey Richmond have ever worn in competition. When formed in 1885 Richmond originally wore a guernsey with black and yellow vertical stripes. This jumper was also worn for our first game in the VFL in 1908.

In addition to this, the jumper was changed in 1995 by having the sash removed from the back to make the numbers more visible (a change I believe actually enhanced the look of the jumper). I don't remeber us members being consulted about such a move at the time.

The reality is that AFL clubs need to maximise every money making opportunity (in particular Victorian clubs) to remain competitive on the field. Think of the marketing opportunities associated with an away strip.

My suggestion is that in order to satisfy the traditionalists, we should have an away jumper based on Richmond's first it wore in competition in 1885 (they could even embroider a special Est. 1885 on the front). In this way we won't get left behind other clubs in the marketing sense, while we are paying homage to our past."

I near on stood up and applauded. How better to quell the traditionalist argument by going full on with tradition! We can look to the future whilelooking at the past at the same time.

Yeah I read that, and in your situation I'd agree with him. Unfortunately we have nothing similar to fall back on. We've only ever had one competition jumper and I don't want to see us lose it. aybe that's illogical and over emotional but that's what footy's about. Dan doesn't quite seem to understand that.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Dan25
No, it's a guess. The AFL has said that they want to aviod the issue of colour clashes. You are assuming and guessing that they are lying. Do you make a habit of deliberatley not believeing what you are told? Your credibility is in tatters, because you are deliberatley not believing the AFL, and then you pass of your "guesses" and "assumptions" as a fact.

That's your opinion Dan. If anyone round here suffers a credibility problem Dan it's the AFL. They told us there would be no sellouts at colonial. Did they tell the truth then Dan? Or was that a convenient lie to suck the public into accepting a situation knowing full well by the time the truth came out it would be TOO LATE to do anything about it. I believe that this is issue is no different to Colonial and I have yet to be provided with any evidence to the contrary.

That doesn't prove it, you dill

Past behaviour IS an indication of an organisations character Dan. Ask any lawyer. And go shove your damn rolleyes where the son doesn't shine "dill".

Wrong. AFL Members were asked to vote. I know this because I received a voting form. Most members elected to have reserved seats for the Grand Final for a small cost. (I voted for first in, first served by the way)

I suppose you are going to "assume" that they rigged the results now?

You are the only AFL memer I know of who even received a survey, and I've spoken to plenty in the last three years. No one I've spoken to was in favour of it so how it get through Dan? If they publish the survey results as well as how many people were asked then I'll believe it, not before. I was also told in a letter that the $30 charge was to cover the wages of the additional staff required on the day. 3/4 of a million dollars in wages for one day? *snort* Bull****! Of course, money couldn't have been a otivating factor, could it, Dan?

They asked Freo to come up with a marketable desing so that they could sell it. Duh! Do you think if Freo weren't given this ultimatum, that they would have come up with a boring, non-financial design?

We'll never know will we, but I doubt they'd have come up with the abortion they're wearing now. A jumper's purpose is not to make as much money for the marketing boys as possible!

And I never said jumper clashes were the leagues number one concern. But they are a concern, nevertheless.

And one that I don't accept is bad enough to warrant them mandating clubs change their strips. Why is it so hard for you to accept that someone else can have a different opinion than you?

And how will it affect the football club? How will it be bad for the game?

Did you read any of my reply Dan? Any of it? Do you understand the concept of identity? That once you start down a path, to coin a phrase "forever will it consume your destiny"? Do you comprehend the fact that once we start compromising the little things it's not that much of a jump to compromise the big ones? You've proved it using the move from Windy Hill to justify this one. How long would it be after we change our jumper before it's used to justify something else, lets say changing the clubs name for a game for a sponsor. After all, it'd only be for one or two games Hey I could used to these

You also say that the AFL could make us wear the new design 11 times. This is the most stupid comment of all. IF you are right and the AFL were doing it solely for the money, how would they benefit if we wear it 11 times instead of two? How?

5.5 times the exposure blockhead. And on national tv too when we play interstate. Exposure = money. Ask any marketing guru.

It IS a valid comparison. We stopped the 70 year tradition of playing there. How are we worse off? How are YOU worse off? HOW IS THE SPORT WORSE OFF?

We are worse off because I can't take my son there to watch them play. That's BAD Dan. BAD. Not becuase we've lost premiership points, not because we've lost money, but because he'll never be able to say "I saw Essendon play at Windy Hill". Now maybe that's not materialistic enough for you Dan but IMO it's bad. Football is about emotion, not logic, not materialistic thins Dan. I can't quantify what it is about the EFC that makes me love as I do, it's a combination of many, many things, and, similar to the love I have for my wife, at times far from logical. Windy Hill on a frezing day pissing down with rain. The first GF I saw. The first game I took my son too at Waverley (yes he's 2 but he's been!!!). The days in the outer at WH with Dad. In the stands with Mum & my sister. That's something I'll never have with him, and to me that's BAD. Emotional? You bet? You got a problem with that? Too bad! When we change our jumper we start down a path that is about discarding our heritage in the pursuit of a dollar, becauase Dan, as much as you refuse to accept it, that is what I believe this push by the AFL is all about.

Change too much about a football club and you change the magical qualities that keep so many of us spellbound by it's charms. I tried to explain that to you in my last post but it seems that you either ignored it or didn't understand it, but perhaps one day you'll come to realise that emotion is what ties us to our clubs. Not logic. Not money. Not "things". Emotion.

I've now said all I'm going to say on this Dan. You're just going to have to accept that

a) I don't agree with you on this

b) Neither you nor anybody else will change my mind about it

c) You are wrong

d) Wally is not a worthless supporter

 

[Dan26]

Dave,

I guarantee I received a from from the AFL membership department in 1997. I recall them giving a letter to all AFL members some months later telling us the results of the survey. Not all AFL members were surveyed. Just a percentage which was supposed to reflect the population of AFL members.

I have no doubt the survey was legit. The AFL worded the survey carefully to ensure that most members would vote, "yes."

You also say that if we wear the "new" jumper 11 times, it would mean 5.5 times the exposure. This would NOT increase sales. We only need to wear it twice for it to have an impact. All Bomber fans would know the jumper exists once we wear it for the first time. I'll give you an example:

Manchester United. I told you about the ManU example before, but you ignored it. They have an alternate jumper, but they ONLY wear it for certain away games where there is a clash. THEY DON'T WEAR IT FOR EVERY AWAY GAME.Now, soccer is the biggest "money-making " sport in the world. Yet, despite this ManU only wear their alternate jumper when the HAVE to. They don't wear it for all away games.....only for a few games (eg agaisnt Arsenal, Liverpool etc)

The fact that they wear the alternate jumper for a handful of games only ensures that it will sell. They don't need to wear it for all 19 away games for it to sell. They only need to wear it a couple of times for peopel to be awarre of its prescense. They wear their traditional red jumper for all games where it is possible to do so. They ONLY wear the alternate design when there is a colour clash. And this is in the money-hungriest sport in the world!!

You really need to stop being so cynical. the AFL wouldn't gain a thing from making us wear it 11 times, as opposed to twice.

Then - unbelievably - you start talking about how a jumper change for two games a year will lead us down the "dark path" from which we will never return. Oh, for God's sake, stop assuming and guessing. All that is being propsed is that we will wear our new RED AND BLACKjumper for a couple of games a year only. All other times we will be in our normal strip. Stop giving us all hypothetical scenarios of how it is the first step down the path of evil.

Stop assuming, and gussing that we will head down the "evil" path. Please, Dave...... I'm tired of hearing about what is going to happen if this gahstly change occurs. Stop beng so cynical.

You've already heard CJH's acount of how it is difficult when two teams wear the same colours. Alternate jumpers are simply a form of common-sense. I'm sorry you don't see that.

 

[gPhonque]

originally posted by Dan
Alternate jumpers are simply a form of common-sense. I'm sorry you
don't see that.

As is keeping 125 years of tradition intact.

And i'm sorry for you that you can't see that.

And you don't have to reply if you don't want.

I'll see you in another thread.

 

[Smokin]

Geez, Dave and whoever else are struggling with concepts here!

Essendon DONT WANT TO CHANGE - forget about tradition, our jumper, our identity, it makes NO DIFFERENCE here because THE ESSENDON FOOTBALL CLUB DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE!!! Tradition is a useless point because its not the clubs decision to change.

The AFL is FORCING us to change, therefore the arguments must come by looking at this as an AFL ISSUE.

Why is the AFL FORCING the change? Because of jumper clashes, obviously.

Now, it seems dave doesnt have a problem with clashes, his eye sight is perfect, actually he sees better than most people apparently. However, mere mortals such as Wayne Carey and Mick Malthouse (and numerous others, but these are the higher profile - Mick went so far to have copped a fine for it - thats how strongly he feels about it) have publicly come out stating that there is a problem, and it can be confusing out on the ground.

Now the AFL, if doing its job correctly, must at least address this issue as many in the game have stated there is a problem. Its a shame that not everyone was blessed with great eyesight such as Dave, however we must do the best we can with what God gave us!

To everyone who has played here - many times in a game you dont get a chance to look at players directly, when forced to do something. You must use a thing called peripheral vision. Better players use this a lot more than others, and obviously if two jumpers are similar you have little chance in making a split second decision on which jumper the guy is wearing.

It HAS happened already in the AFL where players have commented on being confused as to the jumpers.

It is such as obvious problem (I reckon its a blight on the game) that something has to be done. Yea, there will be people who always look for the bad in situations and will suggest the AFL has an alterior motive, but its not the case.

And if anybody thinks this is a new issue they havnt been around footy very long.

Dave dismissed a post regarding Richmond for the reason than Essendon doesnt share the same attributes in our history etc. That is already one fundamental problem here - the AFL cant and shouldnt single out clubs when making a decision, it must make a stand for the WHOLE comp. Forget about Essendon, think of the competition.

Gee, reading some of these posts you would think the AFL is doing this ONLY to get under Essendon's skin. Essendon is being FORCED to change - our tradition will be slighly altered by no fault of the club, it is a forced change - something out of our power. Forget about Essendon. Remember, we are just 1 of 16 clubs in the AFL. We are nobody special!

If anyone disagrees with the AFL its because they dont see a problem with clashes, and believe this is an AFL marketing ploy. Forget tradition and whatever else because the vast majority of the AFL dont regard jumpers as highly as us, and even if some think we arnt, we are just a member of the 16 AFL clubs. The AFL can hardly treat any club with more preference than the others. In the eyes of the AFL the competition has spoken - over 80% (at worst) are happy to change. In any democrasy, thats enough.

 

[Dan26]

Good post, Smokin.

 

[topdon]

I can see this post lasting forever!

I've posted my opinion once...maybe twice...and i am not doing it again!!

 

[M29]

Hey Dan, maybe you should change your Avatar to this.