Amazon's "The Test"

Tassieboy

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I did state that England was an exception. NZ bowling probably not as good then, certainly South Africa's was, and India's attack had Srinath, Prasad, Kumble and Agarkar in it. A pretty fair attack. Blewett faced Donald, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Akram, Waqar, Shoaib Akhtar and Vaas amongst others.
India’s attack was nowhere near the quality it is now.
 

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BronCrow

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De Villiers never played against Blewitt. Schultz played one test v Blewitt in which he replaced Pollock. You could name 6 South African pace bowlers who played against Khawaja who are better than Klusener and McMillan.
A lot of that is probably true. Khawaja would also never dominate Donald and Pollock the way Blewett did at The Wanderers in 1997.
 

PhatBoy

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I would argue it's spin attack was better. I did omit Harbhajan from that list, a glaring omission on my behalf. Therefore making it's attack every bit as good as today's.
How are Harbhajan and Kumble - aside from longevity - any better than Ashwin and Jadeja? All 4 have the same modus operandi - deadly at home and relatively innocuous outside of Asia.
 

Art Vandelay_

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Always liked him as our skipper, and was disappointed when he went back to Tassie for family.
Behind a great man is an even better woman. So much respect for the Wade's.
 

BronCrow

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How are Harbhajan and Kumble - aside from longevity - any better than Ashwin and Jadeja? All 4 have the same modus operandi - deadly at home and relatively innocuous outside of Asia.
You and I can agree to disagree on that. I know which duo I would prefer. Ashwin is very good, and probably the equal of Harbhajan, but not Kumble. Please don't throw Jadeja in the same argument.
 

PhatBoy

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You and I can agree to disagree on that. I know which duo I would prefer. Ashwin is very good, and probably the equal of Harbhajan, but not Kumble. Please don't throw Jadeja in the same argument.
pound for pound Kumble was the best of the four but Harbhajan averaged 28 at home, his strength, Ashwin averages 22 there and Jadeja 21. Considering all 3 are junk away, those are pretty unarguable figures
 

BronCrow

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pound for pound Kumble was the best of the four but Harbhajan averaged 28 at home, his strength, Ashwin averages 22 there and Jadeja 21. Considering all 3 are junk away, those are pretty unarguable figures
They are only figures though. They do not tell the whole picture. I would counter that Ashwin and Jadeja play in a better Indian team than what Harbhajan did. Also the strength of the opposition that Harbhajan bowled against was better, especially in Australia's case.
 

Cursed_Cat

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My biggest take away from the 1st 2 eps is that there was a grand total of 1 effective tactic across the whole of the England ODI series and UAE test series and it was Khawaja reverse sweeping. A tactic he came up with by himself in spite of the coaches.

The coaches just spend so much time talking about nothing, it must be so exhausting. I understand the emotional talks make better TV than the tactical ones so we are more than likely missing those important aspects but they really seem to lose their meaning when it's just meeting after meeting about effort and "wanting it".
Finished watching this today and strongly agree with your assessment of what was put on the screen - at one point there were 9 blokes sitting around a table - 9; none of them current players - talking absolute rubbish, not a single one of them even interested in talking tactics or strategy. Just a whole lot of corporate-speak rubbish and insecure attempts at self-justification.

Tim Paine came across as a bit of a knob, I thought he'd be a lot more likeable; he nearly took the biscuit with his whole 'these aren't just words on a bit of paper' spiel when the country's most forensically supported team could come up with nothing better than some hoary old written contract of their 'code' or whatever it was - just cringeworthy; Geelong teams were doing this under Blight in the 90s to no discernible benefit.

Justin Langer barely uttered even a single constructive or insightful comment throughout the entire 8 episodes - watching Ricky Ponting with the players for a few minutes only served to illustrate what a good coach could and should look like. Langer tried to bluster and bully-boy his way into getting the team to perform, in the end I'd say he had very little impact on the side and that it was only the efforts of the returning Steve Smith and a generally solid (+ one very in-form Patty Cummins) bowling attack that turned around the team's fortunes.
To be fair his approach after Australia coughed up the game at Headingly was probably his strongest moment throughout the doco; didn't let Paine off the hook for a few questionable on-field decisions and refused to sweep a terrible choke under the carpet. He did well in those moments.

All in all it was a reasonably interesting, if perfunctorily presented, account of the post-ball tampering scandal era, in that it exposed Australia's premier sporting team as being padded out with hangers-on and bland, uninspiring leaders.
 
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PhatBoy

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They are only figures though. They do not tell the whole picture. I would counter that Ashwin and Jadeja play in a better Indian team than what Harbhajan did. Also the strength of the opposition that Harbhajan bowled against was better, especially in Australia's case.
do they? They play with a better pace attack - don’t think the batting matches Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir or a combination of those.
 

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corbies

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do they? They play with a better pace attack - don’t think the batting matches Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir or a combination of those.
His points are a bit all over the place. Ashwin and Jadeja aren't as good as they play in a better team but the Indian bowling attack that Blewitt faced is better than the one Khawaja faced.

The argument is basically everyone in the 90s > everyone today.
 

BronCrow

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do they? They play with a better pace attack - don’t think the batting matches Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir or a combination of those.
Yes of course they do. They play in a team that wins more often, therefore that should make them better. Against weaker opposition though.

Before you go any further, please remove Sehwag and Gambhir from that list. Sehwag at his best was brilliant, but didn't produce it often enough. Gambhir also is not good enough to be lumped in with the others. I also think that Ganguly is debatable. Best captain they have had for a long time, but no better than anyone in the current team.

Whilst Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman were all better players individually, they played in a team that had nowhere near the same success. Came close to winning here in 03/04, but that was as close as they got. Were a wonderful team at home, but terrible away. A better version of the current day Australian team.

His points are a bit all over the place. Ashwin and Jadeja aren't as good as they play in a better team but the Indian bowling attack that Blewitt faced is better than the one Khawaja faced.

The argument is basically everyone in the 90s > everyone today.
Yes, test cricket in the 90's was frankly of a better standard than today, as was test cricket 15 years ago. This very much my argument. I am comfortable in making that argument.

A case in point. Australia retained the Ashes last year in England. We lost the Ashes in England in 2005, yet I could only make an argument for Smith and Cummins being in the 2005 team.
 

eddiesmith

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Yes of course they do. They play in a team that wins more often, therefore that should make them better. Against weaker opposition though.

Before you go any further, please remove Sehwag and Gambhir from that list. Sehwag at his best was brilliant, but didn't produce it often enough. Gambhir also is not good enough to be lumped in with the others. I also think that Ganguly is debatable. Best captain they have had for a long time, but no better than anyone in the current team.

Whilst Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman were all better players individually, they played in a team that had nowhere near the same success. Came close to winning here in 03/04, but that was as close as they got. Were a wonderful team at home, but terrible away. A better version of the current day Australian team.



Yes, test cricket in the 90's was frankly of a better standard than today, as was test cricket 15 years ago. This very much my argument. I am comfortable in making that argument.

A case in point. Australia retained the Ashes last year in England. We lost the Ashes in England in 2005, yet I could only make an argument for Smith and Cummins being in the 2005 team.
And not a single English player from last year would make the 2005 team!
 

PhatBoy

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Yes of course they do. They play in a team that wins more often, therefore that should make them better. Against weaker opposition though.

Before you go any further, please remove Sehwag and Gambhir from that list. Sehwag at his best was brilliant, but didn't produce it often enough. Gambhir also is not good enough to be lumped in with the others. I also think that Ganguly is debatable. Best captain they have had for a long time, but no better than anyone in the current team.

Whilst Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman were all better players individually, they played in a team that had nowhere near the same success. Came close to winning here in 03/04, but that was as close as they got. Were a wonderful team at home, but terrible away. A better version of the current day Australian team.



Yes, test cricket in the 90's was frankly of a better standard than today, as was test cricket 15 years ago. This very much my argument. I am comfortable in making that argument.

A case in point. Australia retained the Ashes last year in England. We lost the Ashes in England in 2005, yet I could only make an argument for Smith and Cummins being in the 2005 team.
they also won in England which the current side hasn’t done.

your argument seems very confusing
 

BronCrow

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they also won in England which the current side hasn’t done.

your argument seems very confusing
I did specify earlier that England would be the one team where that would not be the case. They were a much weaker team in the 90's than they are now.

My argument is that the overall standard of test cricket was better 20 years ago than today.
 

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