An open letter to the Club

Matt_352

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 28, 2014
16,627
18,806
AFL Club
Collingwood
Excellent letter FIGJAM.

I am also a Legends member and expressed similar sentiments as this, to the club, and directly to Mark Anderson. I hope they read the feedback and take it on board - I truly do.

You see I'm not one of these supporters who can turn a blind eye to this gross incompetence. Some on here say we should be ashamed of the way we feel (club loyalty and all that). But to me the real argument is I wont stand by and let this go. We need to expect more, demand more as members as I believe as a collective we owe to ourselves and the club to expect an elite environment off the field, as well as on.

Maybe a letter isn't much - but it's a damn side more than saying nothing.
I think its the supporters that aren't letting this go are actually the ones that are more loyal, it hurts too much to see the club that we love in the state that it is in to not do anything about it.
 

Jelly Bean

Premiership Player
Dec 12, 2010
4,704
4,776
AFL Club
Collingwood
I agree with the OP, I think the thing that frustrates many the most is the value return for Treloar and Stephenson. We somehow traded a player who cost us two first round picks, and has been a frequent AA squad candidate, AND a 21 year old NAB Rising Star winner for a pick that will end up being pick 18 or so. It was known by everyone that we were looking to offload Treloar at all costs - so obviously we were going to sell cheap. The Beams fiasco is hard to take as well, but I'll let that one go.

I think we need to trade players out BEFORE we contract them for big dollars, rather than after. I'd have preferred to have traded out Grundy for what would have been very high picks, rather than a cap busting deal that sees us need to fire sale. I'd have considered the same for De Goey - someone would have bitten on De Goey for a top 5ish pick this year. Instead, we will sign him for a lot. You need some players on big contracts - I get it, but we need to find a better balance between big contracted players who come for free through FA, and letting go of big contract-seeking players who can generate draft returns.

If you look at a scenario - would we trade De Goey for Josh Kelly and pick 5-7? Absolutely we would. And that is essentially the decision we have had to make, and we've chosen De Goey (noting obviously that there is 12 months difference in the players in this specific example). Or another - would we trade Grundy for Cripps and pick 1-3? Absolutely we would. But we chose Grundy.

Additionally, when our players want big contracts when they are moving into FA, we need to assess that as well. Assess the compensation pick, and then consider matching and trading. The way GWS dealt with the Cameron exit was textbook. They got three first rounders for a player who was out the door. I know you need to match, etc, but it was always going to work.

So in summary, the principle the I think we need to head towards (with exceptions obviously, but as a general guide) is big dollar for FA only, cash in on trade / pick value for those who want salary cap busting deals from within.
 
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I agree with you that the LENGTH of the Grundy deal (and the Treloar deal before that) is the bigger of the two problems but let’s not kid ourselves, he’ll be on huge dollars too ($800K+) even if not $1 million per season. So its a big burden to deal with, whichever way you look at it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
It's not a big burden if he recapture 2018/2019 form. It'll be a boon.
 
I agree with the OP, I think the thing that frustrates many the most is the value return for Treloar and Stephenson. We somehow traded a player who cost us two first round picks, and has been a frequent AA squad candidate, AND a 21 year old NAB Rising Star winner for a pick that will end up being pick 18 or so. It was known by everyone that we were looking to offload Treloar at all costs - so obviously we were going to sell cheap. The Beams fiasco is hard to take as well, but I'll let that one go.

I think we need to trade players out BEFORE we contract them for big dollars, rather than after. I'd have preferred to have traded out Grundy for what would have been very high picks, rather than a cap busting deal that sees us need to fire sale. I'd have considered the same for De Goey - someone would have bitten on De Goey for a top 5ish pick this year. Instead, we will sign him for a lot. You need some players on big contracts - I get it, but we need to find a better balance between big contracted players who come for free through FA, and letting go of big contract-seeking players who can generate draft returns.

If you look at a scenario - would we trade De Goey for Josh Kelly and pick 5-7? Absolutely we would. And that is essentially the decision we have had to make, and we've chosen De Goey (noting obviously that there is 12 months difference in the players in this specific example). Or another - would we trade Grundy for Cripps and pick 1-3? Absolutely we would. But we chose Grundy.

Additionally, when our players want big contracts when they are moving into FA, we need to assess that as well. Assess the compensation pick, and then consider matching and trading. The way GWS dealt with the Cameron exit was textbook. They got three first rounders for a player who was out the door. I know you need to match, etc, but it was always going to work.

So in summary, the principle the I think we need to head towards (with exceptions obviously, but as a general guide) is big dollar for FA only, cash in on trade / pick value for those who want salary cap busting deals from within.


Yeah agree with most of that. But wouldn't it have been interesting if the cats decided to pull out of the Cameron deal? What would have GWS done?
There is still some risk there I suppose.
 

ottoman

Norm Smith Medallist
May 13, 2014
8,066
20,113
Istanbul
AFL Club
Collingwood
I agree with the OP, I think the thing that frustrates many the most is the value return for Treloar and Stephenson. We somehow traded a player who cost us two first round picks, and has been a frequent AA squad candidate, AND a 21 year old NAB Rising Star winner for a pick that will end up being pick 18 or so. It was known by everyone that we were looking to offload Treloar at all costs - so obviously we were going to sell cheap. The Beams fiasco is hard to take as well, but I'll let that one go.

I think we need to trade players out BEFORE we contract them for big dollars, rather than after. I'd have preferred to have traded out Grundy for what would have been very high picks, rather than a cap busting deal that sees us need to fire sale. I'd have considered the same for De Goey - someone would have bitten on De Goey for a top 5ish pick this year. Instead, we will sign him for a lot. You need some players on big contracts - I get it, but we need to find a better balance between big contracted players who come for free through FA, and letting go of big contract-seeking players who can generate draft returns.

If you look at a scenario - would we trade De Goey for Josh Kelly and pick 5-7? Absolutely we would. And that is essentially the decision we have had to make, and we've chosen De Goey (noting obviously that there is 12 months difference in the players in this specific example). Or another - would we trade Grundy for Cripps and pick 1-3? Absolutely we would. But we chose Grundy.

Additionally, when our players want big contracts when they are moving into FA, we need to assess that as well. Assess the compensation pick, and then consider matching and trading. The way GWS dealt with the Cameron exit was textbook. They got three first rounders for a player who was out the door. I know you need to match, etc, but it was always going to work.

So in summary, the principle the I think we need to head towards (with exceptions obviously, but as a general guide) is big dollar for FA only, cash in on trade / pick value for those who want salary cap busting deals from within.
The only problem I have with this is you are giving big money to people coming from other clubs but telling the talent from within to piss off if they want big money.

The Grundy deal in my opinion was a monumental stuff up. Let him walk. We would have received fantastic compensation. 7 years 7 mill for a ruck is crazy.

Note: Post has not yet been proof read by TKiL
 

TKiL

Cancelled
Jul 22, 2017
5,691
7,247
Eastern Suburbs, Melb
AFL Club
Collingwood
The only problem I have with this is you are giving big money to people coming from other clubs but telling the talent from within to piss off if they want big money.
The Grundy deal in my opinion was a monumental stuff up. Let him walk. We would have received fantastic compensation. 7 years 7 mill for a ruck is crazy.
Note: Post has not yet been proof read by TKiL
Just read it. Post approved!

Scores:

Clarity - 9.5/10

Message - 10/10

Grammer - 9/10 - pm me for tutorial

Carry on!
 

manicpie

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2019
10,948
17,633
AFL Club
Collingwood
I say we get together an army , then storm the Holden center and burn the *er to the ground, spare no one and take no prisoners
 

Jelly Bean

Premiership Player
Dec 12, 2010
4,704
4,776
AFL Club
Collingwood
Yeah agree with most of that. But wouldn't it have been interesting if the cats decided to pull out of the Cameron deal? What would have GWS done?
There is still some risk there I suppose.

Yep, that is the part that needs bravery. Worst comes to worst, you just need to be sure you could trade him for more than the compensation pick (or around the compensation pick to be roughly break even).
 
I say we get together an army , then storm the Holden center and burn the f***er to the ground, spare no one and take no prisoners
I say we then use our army to storm Richmond's training facility, burn it to the ground and take Dusty, Prestia, Bolton, Lynch, Edwards, Houli and Hardwick prisoner.
 

Darkyprotector

Premiership Player
Apr 10, 2017
4,871
2,379
AFL Club
Collingwood
As a near 20 year member of BigFooty and former Collingwood Board Moderator, I hope you will allow me this therapeutic indulgence:



Dear Collingwood FC,


DISCLAIMERS
We understand that we need to further replenish the top 6 talent that can win you flags and that Grundy, De Goey and Moore need more friends in this regard.

We appreciate the pointy end of the draft usually gets you these players.

I’d suggest that the trading team expected much more than what we got.

We acknowledge that the trade period is not yet over and we’ll still shift picks around.

We know the players traded out had flaws (defensively especially), that footy is a business and that they weren’t untradeable.

We note that the list sizes have shrunk and as has the player cap.

We acknowledge that moving on these players will clear up space for potential trades or free agents.

We also get that there may have been mitigating circumstances with regards to ‘HUB life’ that may have made some positions untenable and that there are simply things that we cannot know.


SO THEN WHY ARE WE SO ANGRY?
Because the above justifications aside, you simply cannot trade out so negligently below market value!

The current deal has seen us trade out Treloar, Stephenson, Phillips and Atu effectively for a mid to late first round pick (14) and a future second round pick (say in the mid to late 30’s). The Pick 65 for Phillips carries practically no points and we won’t use it. There isn’t a Collingwood supporter alive who thinks this passes the pub test!

In the past, we’ve had times to trade out players for behavioural concerns in the late 2000’s and early 2010’s, such as Tarrant and Shaw, but we got fair compensation by way of Pick 8 and Taylor Adams respectively.

But us getting horribly below market value on Thursday has actually been a slow-moving train wreck in the making. Our more recent trades in the Ned Guy era have been with Sam Murray 2017 that inexplicably involved a second round pick in the future for an NEAFL standard player who couldn’t get a game at Sydney, the loss of two first rounders in getting an ageing Beams with concerns, a pedestrian 2019 period with lots of noise and now the biggest fire sale in the history of trading. Our negotiations have been particularly weak since the 2015 trade period, which coincides with the Gubby Allen period and Ned Guy’s arrival.

There were recent claims that the recent Geelong final has prompted the sudden need to push contracted players out for draft and/or salary cap gain, but last year we had last year we had contracted players in Scharenberg, Phillips, Cox and Aish getting the tap on the shoulder from the Club, with Aish ultimately being traded. There were also murmurings of trading Treloar to the Gold Coast for a high pick just after the ink dried on his contract.

The claims that this is a sudden pivot are demonstrably false.

With regards to getting clearing cap space for potential FA / trades next year, we’ve been told this all before, yet have watched the likes of Charlie Dixon, Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron walk on by to other clubs despite the fact that we haven’t had a decent key position forward for close to 10 years.
Given the extremely low value of the recent trades, I’m interested to know how we trade in this ‘big fish’ given that we’ll likely need high amounts of capital for drafting Nick Daicos. They’ll presumably need to be unrestricted free agents only.

And on Tom Lynch, we know for a fact that Ned Guy was at his parents’ house and that Nathan Buckley caught up with him, so it is disgraceful for Geoff Walsh to claim that we never had any interest. Then Guy and Walsh continually feeding the spin that that we’re well positioned with “two first round picks” as though we just picked up both Pick 14 and Pick 16 is nothing short of pathetic.
Treating us like idiots right now isn’t helpful to your cause!


LIST MANAGER
Ned Guy was brought in in 2017 to ironically fix our salary cap issues and yet all of the current contracts causing issues relate to players that we’ve tried to get off our list in the past 2 years. Mason Cox’s trigger, Treloar’s massively back-ended contract, Stephenson’s back ended contract, Phillips getting paid miles over his worth, are all one his watch. As is the Beams into 4 years renegotiation.

As for Guy’s negotiation ability, that’s been covered above, but the desperation conveyed by Ned and his team was palpable and ultimately resulted in one of the biggest lose-win negotiations across 3 clubs in history.

Were he let go, there would be no suitors for his services as a list manager in opposition teams. His position is untenable.


GENERAL MANAGER
Geoff Walsh has given us tremendous service over the years and once upon a time nutted out some great trade results. Unfortunately his past 4 years involved in trading have been extremely poor and he seemingly has one foot in retirement. His disrespect to Collingwood fans on Ed’s breakfast show was unacceptable.


COACH
It is an indictment on the coach that I believe both Stephenson and Treloar with regards to the calls suggesting that they seek a trade and in the case of Treloar, that the players don’t want him there. He has form with his treatment of Heath Shaw.

On top of that behaviour, he is a coach that was appointment without due process, who has been afforded one of the longest stints of any coach without a Premiership. Most fans would acknowledge that he has strengths, but also significant weaknesses, particularly by way of being an exceedingly poor match day coach, who is not helped by having a bevy of best mates who are ‘yes men’ and never bring any ideas to the fore.

We will likely go into 2021 with diminished expectations with a probable and subsequent contract extension and the same ol’ same ol’ coaching staff who offer no contrary ideas or solutions.


PRESIDENT
When Ed came to us with the motto “Only the best”. We didn’t realise that he actually meant, “only the best mates”. The appointments of Buckley and his hand-picked team of mates, Geoff Walsh post the ‘Captains Call’ of Gubby Allen and of Ned Guy who had literally no list management experience before joining Collingwood, are all appointments by the President and were undertaken without due process.

For all the good that Ed did for us from 1999 and into the current century, we are and continue to be at the behest of the President and his many Captains Calls. Whilst the Board is an impressive list of business leaders, there would be a query over if there could possibly be sufficient numbers to question one of McGuire’s decisions.

So here we are, staring down the barrel of 2021, with the coach coming out of contract at year’s end. We’ve traded out two definite starting 22 players, potentially 3, so then we have our President with an excuse to justify another 2 or 3 years into the 2020’s for his mate Nathan as we “rebuild”, meaning that Buckley will end up become the longest serving coach in history not to have won a flag.

Another major issue is McGuire’s desire to fully comply with the soft cap. There’s nothing wrong with paying some tax for quality football requirements if we run a bit over and it brings competitive advantage. We are not a ‘for profit’ entity.

We were on seemingly track to good processes after Peter Murphy’s review, but regressed to type rapidly thereafter.

We need to bring in the process that makes the “only the best” motto an actuality with particular regard to the list manager, football manager and coach. If that requires a new President, then now is the time for that change.


CONCLUSION
We the members and fans are mortified at recent events, evidenced by a similar pattern of recent ineptitude and with a sense of powerlessness as we stand by and wait for more of the same. If you're taken aback by the fact that we ain't falling for the usual spin, then please re-read the above and take action.


FIGJAM (aka. JtP from EB&W)
A succession plan was agreed to by Malthouse (Ryan's book on 2010) and he agreed to support the club and the bloke who supported him
BALME was poached
Allan got screwed over ( hows stkilda , gws and the lions as examples)

Eddie's a easy target ,tall poppy syndrome and we are blessed to have him
Want 20 examples of the hatchet jobs done on him

The only thing we did wrong was employ eade
Walsh is a obvious improvement
You believe every bit of dribble Murdoch tells you
Really
2022 and onwards
Core players
Adams
Daicos
Daicos
De goey
Maynard
Moore
Grundy
Cox
Crispy
Magden
Howe
Quaynour
Seir
Murphy
Mihochek
Wilson
Bianco
Keane
McInnes
Elliott
Merrett
Rantall
Kelly
T brown
RUSCOE
Sidey
Pick 14
Pick16
Hows that looking
A GREAT 28


So the three things we got wrong figjam
1 Trusting Malthouse to be a man of his word
2 employing Eade
3 keeping the following
Sharenburg
Reid
Langdon
(Called that in 2018,all gone then, all with concerns over bodies incapable of enduring a tough season)
You don't compound it with paying blokes top dollar for no impact
4 employing Rivers and not keeping McRae or tapping
Really simple guys can't develop playing vfl
They need to play TO IMPROVE
I want sustained Success


PS Cox was tradeable only at the right price
 
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