An outsiders 2005 Magpie squad preview

[Asgardian]

That time of year again when I do the club list previews. It's not a plsstake, I try to be honest, some assessments you'll agree with, some you'll hate, that's cool, let's discuss them, but no flaming please, that's only for morons.

Nathan Buckley:- Still an elite player, talk of him as a half forward is prudent at 33
Scott Burns:- Still finding ball & crashing packs, at 30 it has to show soon though
James Clement:- Leads & organises defence, a smart player who reads ball superbly
Cameron Cloke:- Has shown juicey bits of talent, guessing a CHF long term
Jason Cloke:- The cons outweigh the pros, old fashioned player, born 30 years too late
Travis Cloke:- New kid, yet to see him play
Richard Cole:- Generates dash & creativity, but can lose sight of his opponent
Tom Davidson:- Hope he's not another Lee Walker, only had a ¼, too soon to judge
Leon Davis:- Learning new roles, look for more midfield time, maybe like Peter Burgoyne
Alan Didak:- Enigmatic, can be distracted, can be devastating, not yet a midfielder
Chris Egan:- New kid, yet to see him play
Josh Fraser:- Should be, but isn't a ruckman, no grunt, no anger, too nice a guy to play footy
Brent Hall:- Yet to make AFL debut
Brodie Holland:- Psycho Pie, sometimes plays with no brain at all, if he's on, he's pretty good
Adam Iacobucci:- New kid, yet to see him play
Ben Johnson:- Nice mover with good disposal, unobtrusive, a bit of Maxfield about him
David King:- Works hard, no real flash, but is very keen, will warm the bench a bit
Paul Licuria:- Stats machine, 60/40 by foot / by hand, very reliable
Tarkyn Lockyer:- Pies are a lot better with him on the field, happy knack of finding the ball
Matthew Lokan:- Really disappointed, let himself get taken away from ball, DUD
Ryan Lonie:- Play him as a midfielder & he'd star, beautiful disposal
Nick Maxwell:- Honest dour type, a bit old-fashioned, deprives his opponent of the ball
Billy Morrison:- Yet to make AFL debut
Chad Morrison:- A gamble, he seems to have lost some lateral movement, hope I'm wrong
Shane O'Bree:- Struggles for a permanent role, a spare parts player in 2005
Simon Prestigiacomo:- Best at FB, if ball gets behind him, he has a terrible turning circle
Guy Richards:- Very promising, not scared, nice spring, if body recovers he'll do well
Anthony Rocca:- Biggest gap in AFL between talent & brains, he could have been so much more
Julian Rowe:- Liked his game against Port, very confident, can burn the ball a bit though
Sean Rusling:- New kid, yet to see him play
Brayden Shaw:- Yet to make AFL debut
Heath Shaw:- Yet to make AFL debut
Rhyce Shaw:- Not a long term player, too often he can "spectate" a game
Dane Swan:- Plays with courage, but lacks natural vision, not a fast thinker re ball disposal
Chris Tarrant:- Footy interrupts him having a good time, huge talent yet to be harnessed
Shane Wakelin:- No Lynch means he'll not get injured, reliable in the air with punch or mark
Tristen Walker:- I want to see more before judging, maybe going to be very good?
Andrew Williams:- DUD, major DUD, useless DUD with a camera?
Shane Woewodin:- Ignored by many, does his job, makes team-mates look better than they are

Rookies:

I'll come back to finish this off once the other Drafts have been completed, plus then I'll do my predictions

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Reasonable preview. I reckon that Brodie Holland isn't a "Psycho kid" though, many are worse. If someone knocked me out on the footy field and I went to hospital, then the next time I played him, I'd be wanting to kick his @rse severely. I don't blame Brodie at all for kicking a Blue in the head, heck we all want to do it so he was the first one in. Well done Brodie! (Clap Clap) Thunderous claps and huge roars come from the crowd.

 

[Murray]

Fair,
I'd disagree on only a few.
Josh (Can play in several positions so that makes him extra value)
Maxwell (better than you say)
Tarrant (Gives it everything)

 

[Cassius_Clay]

shut the ****** up murray

 

[FIGJAM]

Again, a fair review Asgard.

To be fair, if I were to try and collate and review all clubs' lists, there would be starting 22 players at some clubs, who I don't even know, so I dip my hat to you for having a go!

That's two years in a row IIRC, that you've had a go at Anthony's head. I think Anthony's major issue is getting out on the park for a run of games. Yeah, his hit on Lade was unneccesary, but it's not really in keeping with his normal play either. He just needs to string games together and he's easily in the top 3 or 4 CHFs.

And Fraser might be weak overhead (ie. ruck and overhead marking) but I wouldn't question his aggression. In terms of drive to win, I reckon he's up in there with Buckley. He never shirks a fight and he's a natural inside ball winner. He bleeds for our Club.

Plenty more issues I could pull you up on, but it's good to get an outside opinion. Thanks!

 

[FIGJAM]

Reasonable preview. I reckon that Brodie Holland isn't a "Psycho kid" though, many are worse. If someone knocked me out on the footy field and I went to hospital, then the next time I played him, I'd be wanting to kick his @rse severely. I don't blame Brodie at all for kicking a Blue in the head, heck we all want to do it so he was the first one in. Well done Brodie! (Clap Clap) Thunderous claps and huge roars come from the crowd.

Sure, I've got nuthin against kicking Camporeale in the head, but it's not like it's Brodies only incident. He's a loose cannon.

I'd like to think age will mature him, but with Brodie, who's to say?!

 

[leonmagic]

Very good Asgardian, very good.

the only faults I can see are with Josh (very underrated these days, but I agree not as a ruckman), Maxwell (VERY excited by this kid) and Tarrant (he's grown up a lot over the past 24 months).

Oh, and you didn't cane Williams enough.

 

[MACDAICOS]

That time of year again when I do the club list previews. It's not a plsstake, I try to be honest, some assessments you'll agree with, some you'll hate, that's cool, let's discuss them, but no flaming please, that's only for morons.

Nathan Buckley:- Still an elite player, talk of him as a half forward is prudent at 33
Scott Burns:- Still finding ball & crashing packs, at 30 it has to show soon though
James Clement:- Leads & organises defence, a smart player who reads ball superbly
Cameron Cloke:- Has shown juicey bits of talent, guessing a CHF long term
Jason Cloke:- The cons outweigh the pros, old fashioned player, born 30 years too late
Travis Cloke:- New kid, yet to see him play
Richard Cole:- Generates dash & creativity, but can lose sight of his opponent
Tom Davidson:- Hope he's not another Lee Walker, only had a ¼, too soon to judge
Leon Davis:- Learning new roles, look for more midfield time, maybe like Peter Burgoyne
Alan Didak:- Enigmatic, can be distracted, can be devastating, not yet a midfielder
Chris Egan:- New kid, yet to see him play
Josh Fraser:- Should be, but isn't a ruckman, no grunt, no anger, too nice a guy to play footy
Brent Hall:- Yet to make AFL debut
Brodie Holland:- Psycho Pie, sometimes plays with no brain at all, if he's on, he's pretty good
Adam Iacobucci:- New kid, yet to see him play
Ben Johnson:- Nice mover with good disposal, unobtrusive, a bit of Maxfield about him
David King:- Works hard, no real flash, but is very keen, will warm the bench a bit
Paul Licuria:- Stats machine, 60/40 by foot / by hand, very reliable
Tarkyn Lockyer:- Pies are a lot better with him on the field, happy knack of finding the ball
Matthew Lokan:- Really disappointed, let himself get taken away from ball, DUD
Ryan Lonie:- Play him as a midfielder & he'd star, beautiful disposal
Nick Maxwell:- Honest dour type, a bit old-fashioned, deprives his opponent of the ball
Billy Morrison:- Yet to make AFL debut
Chad Morrison:- A gamble, he seems to have lost some lateral movement, hope I'm wrong
Shane O'Bree:- Struggles for a permanent role, a spare parts player in 2005
Simon Prestigiacomo:- Best at FB, if ball gets behind him, he has a terrible turning circle
Guy Richards:- Very promising, not scared, nice spring, if body recovers he'll do well
Anthony Rocca:- Biggest gap in AFL between talent & brains, he could have been so much more
Julian Rowe:- Liked his game against Port, very confident, can burn the ball a bit though
Sean Rusling:- New kid, yet to see him play
Brayden Shaw:- Yet to make AFL debut
Heath Shaw:- Yet to make AFL debut
Rhyce Shaw:- Not a long term player, too often he can "spectate" a game
Dane Swan:- Plays with courage, but lacks natural vision, not a fast thinker re ball disposal
Chris Tarrant:- Footy interrupts him having a good time, huge talent yet to be harnessed
Shane Wakelin:- No Lynch means he'll not get injured, reliable in the air with punch or mark
Tristen Walker:- I want to see more before judging, maybe going to be very good?
Andrew Williams:- DUD, major DUD, useless DUD with a camera?
Shane Woewodin:- Ignored by many, does his job, makes team-mates look better than they are

Rookies:

I'll come back to finish this off once the other Drafts have been completed, plus then I'll do my predictions

You must have alot of spare time on your hands....

 

[hotpie]

Fair revue,

My spin on it:

Buckley will spent more time at half back than half forward, directing traffic.
Burns will be a near-permanent forward pocket. He's a better forward than Buckley.
The game is not yet over for J Cloke. This year will me make or break for him, but there is a role for him to play.
Cole only loses sight of his opponent because (a) he's young and (b) he gets the quickest, most slippery and best small forward week after week. Why does he get this role? Because MM loves him. Expect a promotion to midfield this season.
L Davis - an old dog who cannot learn new tricks. Any experiment in the midfield is doomed to failure. If he has a future at Collingwood its in the forward pocket. Will be replaced by the likes of Egan hopefully, before too long.
J Fraser - quality player. underestimate at your peril. Not a first ruck, but sensational second ruck/utility/key forward.
Holland - needs to be given freedom to chase the pill. Let somebody else do the tagging (Licuria, Cole).
Tarrant - despite reputation off field is a very dedicated player. Needs a big decoy at CHF (Rocca, C Cloke) to be most effective.
Rocca - brain not the main problem, its at the other end, ankles, knees etc. Probably has only 1-2 years left as a genuine CHF, then FF for him.

 

[grayza]

fair job Asgardian.....but as with mostly everyone else i dont agree with your take on fraser and rocca
get rocca out on the park for some extended periods and see how he goes
i agree on what you said about lokan, and i also hope you are wrong about chad

 

[Asgardian]

Fair revue,

Thank you for that thunderous praise...

My spin on it:

Buckley will spent more time at half back than half forward, directing traffic.

Bucks is 33, I cannot see his body withstanding a full year in the midfield, I think we all pretty much agree. The reason I see him in the forward lines is that he's so damn good at attracting the ball, when he gets it, he'll be in goal range. Remember you win games by scoring goals, Bucks can do that. I reckon that'll be where he is most value for the Pies

Burns will be a near-permanent forward pocket. He's a better forward than Buckley.

Possibly correct, but picture this, Bucks & Burns changing off the half forward flank between midfield spurts. This'll keep the opposition under constant midfield and defence pressure. I reckon it could work

The game is not yet over for J Cloke. This year will me make or break for him, but there is a role for him to play.

A very limited role IMO, too short & too slow to be a year 2000 player, but an excellent 1960's player

Cole only loses sight of his opponent because (a) he's young and (b) he gets the quickest, most slippery and best small forward week after week. Why does he get this role? Because MM loves him. Expect a promotion to midfield this season.

Yes, but he DOES lose his opponent occasionally, I agree, he could be a very exciting midfielder

L Davis - an old dog who cannot learn new tricks. Any experiment in the midfield is doomed to failure. If he has a future at Collingwood its in the forward pocket. Will be replaced by the likes of Egan hopefully, before too long.

Maybe, maybe not, will have to wait & see

J Fraser - quality player. underestimate at your peril. Not a first ruck, but sensational second ruck/utility/key forward.

Not doubting his talent, but I do question his application, I look forward to him proving me wrong, coz it's always fun to watch an extreme talent fight his way to the top

Holland - needs to be given freedom to chase the pill. Let somebody else do the tagging (Licuria, Cole).

Can't really see that happening

Tarrant - despite reputation off field is a very dedicated player. Needs a big decoy at CHF (Rocca, C Cloke) to be most effective.

Okay, I admit I've been harsh, and even unfair on Tarrant, but it's frustrationg watching a bloke who could be an absolute superstar, but doesn't reach those heights coz of "other" influences

Rocca - brain not the main problem, its at the other end, ankles, knees etc. Probably has only 1-2 years left as a genuine CHF, then FF for him.

He does the silly things onfield, runs to the wrong pocket, taps the ball the wrong way, reads the ball incorrectly. An okay player, but not even close to the star he should have been

 

[hotpie]

Thereason I see him in the forward lines is that he's so damn good at attracting the ball, when he gets it, he'll be in goal range.

He actually doesnt get it very often when he plays forward. I've never seen him play well in the forward line, in that respect of his game he's miles behind Voss and Hird. When was the last time you saw Buckley swung to full forward to win us the game? It doesn't happen, because he's not that good at it. Will spend some time forward, but he'll be far more effective playing loose in defence (or even manning up on the opposition third tall) and occassionally streaming forward and bombing goals from 50.

 

[hotpie]

Possibly correct, but picture this, Bucks & Burns changing off the half forward flank between midfield spurts. This'll keep the opposition under constant midfield and defence pressure. I reckon it could work

Burns, Johnson, Cole, Davis and Didak rotating through these positions is even more exciting, with Buckley nailing 60 metre short passes from the hbf with precision to Fraser Tarrant Rocca and C Cloke.

 

[captain ebert]

only one 4 letter word is needed to describe the pie's list for '05

ah, i love it when you turkeys are down - just love it!!

 

[twaters]

Cole to midfield seems a great bonus for us - speed, ball carry, tackling. The trouble is MM having confidence in anyone else to hold our goals-against down against the quick small forwards. Cole going back let Johnson get more run in 2004. Options seem to be Swan (disposal? more a back or forward flanker?), Yakkabouchie or O'Brien (if chosen as a rookie) - but both would be 12 months away - or King (blooded last year but not in the back pocket despite often playing there with Willi).

Perhaps it's Johnson, Didak, even Davis to more midfield duties in 2005; with Cole stepping up there in 2006, once his BP replacement is found.

 

[gezza78]

Very good wrap Asgardian!You obviously have a fantastic knowledge of all the clubs lists,well done!

 

[jefffff34]

Tarrant and Rocca are the only ones I believe you haven't summed up right.

Prediction - C.Tarrant Copeland 2005 (and basically the best player on our list by then)

 

[Lockyer24]

Pretty much spot on.

The only thing that kept Tarrant from superstar status last season was hamstring injuries and the Tribunal suspending him for ********ing nothing.

 

[Lensen]

It was mentioned in this topic, but I realised it while watching a game today on Fox - Burns would be a better key forward than Bucks, by a substational margin. Of course, I've never thought Bucks could become a dominant key forward - but I can see it in Burns, the same way I can see it in Voss.

The only problem is who's going to kick it to him if those two are out of the midfield.

 

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Great job, Chris.

 

[BlahzeyBlah]

Quite an excellent summary for an opposition supporter. Any alterations I could suggest have already been mentioned. I just thought I'd post to let you know your time is appreciated, and 90% plus of your views are quite accurate.

It's impressive to find someone who has a knowledgable view on an opposition team's list.

 

[B&W Army]

Awesome review considering you don't support the club. Look forward to more posts. Feel welcome...

 

[dogga16]

Fair revue,

My spin on it:

Buckley will spent more time at half back than half forward, directing traffic.
Burns will be a near-permanent forward pocket. He's a better forward than Buckley.
The game is not yet over for J Cloke. This year will me make or break for him, but there is a role for him to play.
Cole only loses sight of his opponent because (a) he's young and (b) he gets the quickest, most slippery and best small forward week after week. Why does he get this role? Because MM loves him. Expect a promotion to midfield this season.
L Davis - an old dog who cannot learn new tricks. Any experiment in the midfield is doomed to failure. If he has a future at Collingwood its in the forward pocket. Will be replaced by the likes of Egan hopefully, before too long.
J Fraser - quality player. underestimate at your peril. Not a first ruck, but sensational second ruck/utility/key forward.
Holland - needs to be given freedom to chase the pill. Let somebody else do the tagging (Licuria, Cole).
Tarrant - despite reputation off field is a very dedicated player. Needs a big decoy at CHF (Rocca, C Cloke) to be most effective.
Rocca - brain not the main problem, its at the other end, ankles, knees etc. Probably has only 1-2 years left as a genuine CHF, then FF for him.

Agree with most points especially on Rocca. Has more problems with his thumbs. I'm thinking of him playing FF more this year with Fraser & Taz across HF were they are better suited !! Rocca has been unfairly treated by most 'pundits' due to his dual role of up until the last year or so of Ruck/CHF.....don't see Tredrea, Brown or Hall doing centre bounce work....recruiting inefficiencies from the early 90's have resulted in Rocca's ability being diluted by the constant grind of doing both

 

[eddiesmith]

Great effort, glad to see Pies supporters are more appreciative and intelligent than the ******** from Bomberland

Just a few
Nathan Buckley:- As some said, cant play forward, seems to lack the set shot, better streaming in from downfield or setting them up with perfect passes
Jason Cloke:- The most hated player in the AFL, severely underrated. Has a lot more heart and guts than alot of players in the AFL. In the top 20 or so for courage, guts and determination
Richard Cole:- Agree, needs some brains though as he to often runs way too far without bouncing
Tom Davidson:- Reminds of Walker to much, showed good promise in that qtr
Leon Davis:- Will never play midfield unfortunately, lose spot to taller forward line and Caracella
Alan Didak:- Played quite well against Geelong in the midfield before getting injured, could be a good player to allow to Burns and Bux to rest
Josh Fraser:- Was never a ruckman, could be a great CHF/FP with likely the 3rd or 4th defender on him. Doesnt lack mongrel at all
Ryan Lonie:- More likely a wing player, really needs to pick up in 2005 though as at his best is quite damaging
Nick Maxwell:- The James Hird of Collingwood. Loved by most, overrated to the extreme
Chad Morrison:- A gamble that will pay off. Replaces Molloy and Rintoul who were good players for us in bits and pieces
Anthony Rocca:- Bit harsh. Could destroy any team if on form. Bad knees and ankles have stopped his improvement
Rhyce Shaw:- If he got the guts of Cole and ran with it could be very damaging but doesnt back his own pace
Chris Tarrant:- If the Essendon players stay away from him he will be fine. Completely forgotten after injury interrupted season and Riewoldts flukish season. Was sensational in 2003 and just as good as Riewoldt when in form
Shane Wakelin:- Great player still and is a great mark, agreed. Most reliable backman
Tristen Walker:- Will not be very good, another Ben Kinnear
Andrew Williams:- Could be a huge wildcard this year. Is needed for team depth
Shane Woewodin:- Top 10 bagged players since leaving Melbourne, still good despite interrupted pre season

 

[silverphoenix]

Tristen Walker:- Will not be very good, another Ben Kinnear

I disagree with a few assessments, but this one takes the cake IMO, i have faith in Tex and can see him becoming an awesome chb, wakes will be gone probs after 2006, which will be the perfect time for Tex to take the helm