And the winner is... Cuba (libre)

[Pessimistic]

Despite the murdoch rag not giving them any credit the performance of the 2000 games has to go to Cuba. In their 'medals per capita' table published today they highlighted that australia was top with one medal per 330,000 population. Cuba is second with one per 380,000 and way ahead of those capitalist pigs the US.

The effort matches up well to the aussies who had a massive home town advantage.

But the Murdoch (and like) media takes great delight in running down 'commy' countries but they certainly can't use these statistics to run socialism down.

Well done Cuba. I might try to visit one day.

 

[TigerTank]

"... but they certainly can't use these statistics to run socialism down"

... except for China.

 

[Pessimistic]

I quite happily live in a capitalist soceity but sometimes the press cranks me up when they go off about...

Here's an example - A Submarine tragedy and a burning TV tower was presented as 'the failure of communism' forgetting that Russia has supposedly seen the 'free market' light since 1992.

Can't we see that there are many colours of 'right' and everyone thinks they live in 'the best country in the world'.

But if olympic acheivment is to provide a window into the wellbeing of a country then surely the work needs to be done in Brazil and India, for example - Huge countries with huge potential but kept down by one thing or another.

 

[Pessimistic]

I quite happily live in a capitalist soceity but sometimes the press cranks me up when they go off about...

Here's an example - A Submarine tragedy and a burning TV tower was presented as 'the failure of communism' forgetting that Russia has supposedly seen the 'free market' light since 1992.

Can't we see that there are many colours of 'right' and everyone thinks they live in 'the best country in the world'.

But if olympic acheivment is to provide a window into the wellbeing of a country then surely the work needs to be done in Brazil and India, for example - Huge countries with huge potential but kept down by one thing or another.

 

[Gonzo]

Pess

Where did the Bahamas finish in the table

Their entire population is about 270000 (about the population of Tasmania) and they one a gold in the womens relay and a silver in the women's 200 sprint (I think)

I hope that the Aus media was not being selective in it's reporting - heaven forbid!!!

 

[JUBJUB]

Pessimistic -we got it the 1st time.

 

[maggie greg]

Pessimistic

Your real name wouldnt be Coxedge would it?

Dont forget how great East Germany was especially the women swimmers in the pool and the East German "girl" who defeated Raelene Boyle in 1972 at Munich.

Communist or re-named communists who call themselves Socialists are all the same. I know. My family had to escape from a communist country post WW2 before they were killed. That is, part of my family. My uncle who was 15 at the time and was unable to escape was incarcerated for 37 years as a result. It is a crime to leave a communist country.
Cuba is such a great place. that is why people risk drowning to get away from there.

Communist nations use athletes as propoganda to show allegedly how great their system is. They get the young and all these athletes know is their sports world. They never have to work and so become part of the "elite" or the ruling class in a socalled classless society. Many Commo countries use steriods and other such drugs to enhance their program such as East Germany and PRC.
Really Cuba is piss weak for not doing any better than they did.

Dont forget Nicaragua too!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Magpie Greg

and Western countries don't use performance enhancing drugs ?

pull the other one mate - its got bells on.

The only difference between Communist countries and the rest of us is that drug abuse in sport was officially sanctioned and officially organised in those countries. In the West it was disorganised, not officially sanctioned and not uniformly applied.

Western athletes are just as guilty of taking drugs than the communists :

- How about that Irish swimmer Michelle Smith at Atlanta 1996 ? she was so drug *uck*d she submitted a urine sample consisting of PURE WHISKY

- Florence Griffith-Joyner's body was so massively mutated by steroid abuse her heart literally exploded - at the age of 37.

- CJ Hunter (american shot put world champion) was tested positive for steroids 4 times in the last 12 months.

- Then there is the famous Ben Johnson episode - he was a Canadian I think ?

Everyone is guilty of it Magpie Greg - not just 'Commie' countries.

And what do you mean by remembering Nicaragua ? All I remember about Nicaragua is the USA waging a highly illegal, unsuccessful and expensive guerilla war against a tiny nation of 3.5 million people who had the courage and conviction to democratically elect the government of its chosing.

I suppose you think if someone such as the US State Dept labels somebody or some country a 'Commie' then I guess its OK to do whatever you like to them ?

just because they are 'commie' ?

get real Senator McCarthy !!!!

 

[Arch]

cuba always wins almost every boxing gold medal- you look at them in the standings and wonder how they do so well, but its all virtually in one sport.
I think they did better in Atlanta than sydney.

A.

 

[Arch]

oh and by the way- did China win a single gold medal in swimming this time round ????

hmmmm.....

A.

 

[Maggie Greg]

Comrade Angel

I was saying what you were saying re drugs. I wasnt saying the west was squeaky clean. I was saying in the west it is an individual's decision, whereas it was a state decision in Communist countries, and more systematic. In the west it was the athelete who was to beneift from cheating, in communist countries it was the state and the communist system.
And who killed 20 million russians? Your friend Joe Stalin.
Perhaps if some of your family members were caught trying to escape a commo country and were then tied to the end of a truck and dragged around for hours well after they were dead, or strung up, you might not feel soo sorry for the red-flaggers. In my view, the only good communist is a dead communist. But hey, I diagree with menzies trying to outlaw them because then we become like they are. Let them live here so we can all laugh at them like Hartley and Halfpenny and Joe Carmichael and the like.

HEE HEE. The Berlin wall must still be up to stop the West germans trying to get into East Germany, the paradise that it was. Ditto South Korea into North Korea.

Get real comrade, dont just look through your pinko anti-US glasses.

 

[you're not wrong]

for once I find myself actually agreeing with a collingwood supporter!

well said maggie greg

 

[so]

To strip it down to its truest meaning, communisim is a good thing. Everyone is equal and as important as the next person. Trouble is it doesnt really translate that way when put into practice. Way of the world i guess

 

[The Ball]

Magpie greg,

It's not always a a crime to leave a communist country. My family also left a communist country and it wasn't a crime to do so, the government even encouraged it.

Plus, Cuba would still be a poor country with or without a communist system. More likely then not, it would be a "gamblers paradise". It's also hard to get developed when certain countries put economic sanctions on you.

 

[sandie]

Magpie Greg
Beware the Reds under your bed, you are living in a 50's time warp.

------------------
Mantis

 

[Pessimistic]

Guys
I was really having a go at Murdoch bias. You should have seen the way his papers treated the Labour party in Britain during the thatcher years - not much balanced reporting there.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Don't call me comrade Magpie Greg

I understand where you are coming from - I know of many, many people personally who have the same experiences as your parents but for every victim of Stalin, Castro or Mao Zedong, I'll show you a victim of Hitler, Pinochet or Soeharto.

Political idealology has nothing to do with it. There are tyrants and ogres who have headed up authoritarian regimes of both Left and Right throughout the ages what particular political creed they say they adhere to really has nothing to do with it.

I agree with you - Communism as it has been practised in various parts of the world has been an abject failure, 'The Dictatorship of the Proletariat' has turned out to be just a dictatorship - no arguements from me there but I have to laugh at your simplistic analysis of this and it gets back to my original point :

Don't slag off somebody just because their view maybe a little to the left of your own, criticise people for the flaws and weaknesses of their arguements, not for what they believe in.

And another thing - don't call me Anti-American I'm not anti-American I'm just pointing out that the United States is not some kind of global 'good guy' in a white stetson on a white horse. The United States is just as guilty of crimes against humanity as any other country.

Its not about 'good guys' vs 'bad guys' or even about Left vs Right, its about whether you want authoritarian dictatorship or an open civil society. The choice is yours, but if want an open, civil society - then by definition that has to include people of all political, economic and religious persuasions.

cheers

 

[Maggie Greg]

Mr. Angel

I am saying the same thing really. I said I didnt agree with the banning of Communism in the 50s b/c that would be acting like them. I agree extreme left and extreme right really takes you round the circle on either side and brings you to the same point, totalitarianism.

I can tolerate other ideas or opinions but I dont have to like them. You know, my dad was involved in a plan to dethrone the dictator of his country and one of his cousins who was also involved was caught by the secret police and was severely tortured to say that my dad was involved but he did not do so. Some days later my father entered the room where his cousin had been tortured, and was told to look at the ceiling where there were sprays of blood. They said that was his cousin's blood from the torture inflicted and even so, he didnt put my father in. He was jailed for 42 years but somehow survived. My dather died in 1992. I was able to vists my father's homeland in 1995 for the first time( I couldnt go before hand b/c I would at the very least have been arrested) and met this man. I did not know him, but I cried for 10 minutes when I met him. He was now 80 years old. I am nearly crying while I am typing this.

So excuse me if I have a particular view also of Communism which is practically first hand. My parents were never able to return after escaping in 1950.They left loved ones behind whom they never saw again for the last 40 or so years of their lives. They were unable to write to them until 1990 and then finally were able to communciate. Can you imagine that.
Just b/c I am anti-communist doesnt make ne pro-fascist. I am slightly to the right of centre but staunchly anti-communist. But I cant stand people who stick up for Stalin, Hitler, Hirohito, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Mussolini or any other dictator or totalitarina regime. Surely I cant be criticised for that.

And Sandie, dont be so stupid. They werent under the bed they were right in front of my family with guns. So get stuffed dickhead.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thanks for clearing that up Greg

I agree with you 100 % and I also found your stories of what your father and cousins went through at the hands of the dictatorship a most moving and saddening story.

respectfully yours

 

[Pessimistic]

I read somewhere that the East Germans stasi had some ridiculously high proportion of the populus spying on the rest. They apparently had so much information the west's eyes popped out when they finally got to see it. Remember we were speculating for fifty odd years what happened to Hitler and they (or the russians) knew all along. Admittedly they didn't tell their own people either.

Another interesting opinion I read is that true communism (as 'defined' by Marx) has very little structure or authority and that the 'Stalinism' was just a 'step' on the way. Hitherto it has evaded everyone but some think the semi-anarchy and empowerment the net might bring about something similar. But the capitalists also claim the net will bring about 'one-person companies' and claim it as theirs also.

Granted the Communists saying "ah but id didn't work because we didn't try such and such' is very similar to the economic rationalists who also claim that we didn't go quite far enough

I remember a story where the thatcher mob spent millions of public money to privatise a company worth less than a million - so there's lunacy on both sides.

But my original point was that certain newspapers are dangerously biased.

 

[Maggie Greg]

No problem BS Angel. I have a treasure trove full of them from my parents, some more gory than what I have put in, but I wont as it is digressing a bit too much.

As I said, we are coming from the same angle.

Kind Regards.

 

[Maggie Greg]

Pess
Re your Stasi comment....

My uncle escaped as well b/c the secret police after jailing him for 4 years for his beliefs, agreed to release him on the basis that he would become a spy/informer back in his village. He agreed but escaped about two weeks later b/c he couldnt do it.

Fathers dobbed in kids and vice versa. the populations of these countries having been deprived of freedom and a decent standard of living for so long have lost their morals. Hence, as a result of the fall of communism they are in it for the here and now, looking for a quick fix, the quick buck etc, with the ends always justifying the means. Quite ripe for the picking by mafia, and corruption as a result is also rife. To say that what has a free market economy done right for these coutnries in the last ten years is really missing the point. You have to reverse the corruption that was in the communist system already (more widespread than here) which has now infected entire countries. Communism has ****ed these countries up and it appears there is nothing than can really help them in the short term. Freedom is not enough.

 

[Drakey]

It's not just communism. These countries have never had "freedom".

In Russia before the communists, you had the Szars. No slouches when it came to running a secret police. In E/Germany you had Hitler, before him anarchy & before that the Kaizer.

Eastern Europe has little or no history of democracy or "freedom".

Magpie greg. Your stories are a real eye opener. We should all be thankfull for our good fortune or good sence that have led to our calling Australia home.

Maybe we should also stop & think next time we see a boat load of illegals land here.