Andrew Gaff hit on Brayshaw

Andrew Gaff's penalty will be...


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AFL's darkest day. What a disgraceful trial by media, witch hunt on Andrew Gaff. How anybody can compare that, to the punch by Hall, a trained boxer, is a joke. It is widely acknowledged that it wasn't his intention to hit him in the face. Is he innocent?.... No, but I place him 3rd on the list of responsible parties. Number 1....AFL/Umpires. Why these players are continually allowed to be infringed off the ball is a joke. Don't just look at the 3 seconds of footage continually played by the media. This has been building for 174 games. No wonder players like him, Selwood, Dangerfield, get frustrated eventually. Number 2..... Ross Lyon. Why is he instructing his players to go outside of the rules and infringe players 100m off the ball, in a game he wasn't going to win. That's what he should be explaining to Brayshaws mother. And finally to Johnson. Apparently having no other intention than to take somebody out with a head high bump is only worth a fine. What a joke. Every player that has been suspended recently for making accidental head high contact, should feel ripped off. I hope every team that plays Fremantle for the next 10 years employs these tactics, because the AFL has made it clear as to what is acceptable.
 

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Socrates2

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AFL's darkest day. What a disgraceful trial by media, witch hunt on Andrew Gaff. How anybody can compare that, to the punch by Hall, a trained boxer, is a joke. It is widely acknowledged that it wasn't his intention to hit him in the face. Is he innocent?.... No, but I place him 3rd on the list of responsible parties. Number 1....AFL/Umpires. Why these players are continually allowed to be infringed off the ball is a joke. Don't just look at the 3 seconds of footage continually played by the media. This has been building for 174 games. No wonder players like him, Selwood, Dangerfield, get frustrated eventually. Number 2..... Ross Lyon. Why is he instructing his players to go outside of the rules and infringe players 100m off the ball, in a game he wasn't going to win. That's what he should be explaining to Brayshaws mother. And finally to Johnson. Apparently having no other intention than to take somebody out with a head high bump is only worth a fine. What a joke. Every player that has been suspended recently for making accidental head high contact, should feel ripped off. I hope every team that plays Fremantle for the next 10 years employs these tactics, because the AFL has made it clear as to what is acceptable.
It wasn't accepted that he didn't mean to hit him, in fact it was stated in the tribunal that he did mean to hit him in the face.They should have given 10 to 12 weeks. It would not have been a big deal if he was missing 3 or 4 more games early next year. If he does it again, he should get 2 to 4 years because the game doesn't need thuggish behaviour like that, even though he has been a fair player up until now.Barry dickhead Hall should have got 12 to 15 as well.
 

frenchconnection

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Excellent. I'm glad we agree you were making light of the fact that Andrew Brayshaw was sent to hospital in an incident off the ball.

Stay classy


Here's what you wrote "I wasn't necessarily blaming the umpires but just pointing out if they had payed free kicks for any illegal tactics then maybe this incident could have been avoided".
And where in that did I say what you are insinuating. Think you have a problem mate or you don't comprehend English. Whichever, it needs attention!
 

WilloTree

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And where in that did I say what you are insinuating. Think you have a problem mate or you don't comprehend English. Whichever, it needs attention!
You wrote ""I wasn't necessarily blaming the umpires but just pointing out if they had payed free kicks for any illegal tactics then maybe this incident could have been avoided".

Maybe I've misunderstood. What do you mean by this?
 

Trebor57

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It wasn't accepted that he didn't mean to hit him, in fact it was stated in the tribunal that he did mean to hit him in the face.They should have given 10 to 12 weeks. It would not have been a big deal if he was missing 3 or 4 more games early next year. If he does it again, he should get 2 to 4 years because the game doesn't need thuggish behaviour like that, even though he has been a fair player up until now.Barry dickhead Hall should have got 12 to 15 as well.
Not Gaff or anyone else speaking on behalf of the WCE said he didn't mean to hit him. What Gaff said is he meant to hit him in the chest. Even Brayshaw's dad spoke about his son lowering his center of gravity so the punch hit his face not his chest. One quote from Brayshaw's dad - “None of us have any interest whatsoever in anything other than what happened tonight. It is a rotten bit of luck — and personally I am absolutely convinced he meant to give him a good whack in the chest.”
And on the AFL web site -
Mark Brayshaw also opened up about the relationship between Gaff and his other son Hamish, who are teammates at West Coast.
"The other dimension of this is my other son, Hamish," he said.
"He gave me a lift home from the ground. By the time we got home, we had analysed (the incident) and he had some footage.
"You can actually see my Andrew spread his legs a little bit and lower his centre of gravity.
"Hamish said to me, Andrew Gaff is one of his best mates, he is just the most delightful bloke you've ever met.
"My Andrew has inadvertently has lowered his centre of gravity and a chest punch has become a face punch.

The person at the tribunal suggesting he meant to hit him in the face would have been the AFL counsel, certainly not Gaff or his counsel. It seems the people closest to the issue can think rationally, while people who have nothing more than an opinion are experts on what Gaff really intended.

The suspension is fair because no one should be throwing punches of any description at anyone on the field, but to suggest he meant to hit him in the face lacks foundation.
 

FreoMonocle

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Quite frankly, Mark is just hosing it down. What can the ceo of the coaches association say when he is the representative of a whole industry that is complicit in "what happens on the field stays on the field", as a player he would have turned a blind eye to a few indiscretions against him (as he was a clean player) and others on the field.

Nice of him, gentlemanly of him, good sportsmanship. But does nothing to say that it's not okay to wack other players. Yes, it is his son - but there are several kids in the last few months in the lower competitions that have been hospitalised by a punch, not just Andy. It would have been better if he took a stand on this as an issue for the sake of everyone else's kids going into the future - didn't have to be piling on to Gaff to do it, but certainly upping the ante in the whole competition - he's one of the most powerful figures in the industry and people would have gone with him on this.
 

BartBart

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The washup is 1/West Coast season is in trouble 2/ Gaff probably won't go to Melbourne Demons due to Angus being there 3/ Gaff loses some value to other clubs 4/ Gaff probably has to leave West Coast regardless of if he wants to 5/Andrew Brayshaw has probable ongoing dental issues and 6/ Richmond firms in betting for the flag.
I think club self interest will override point 3. They will quickly forget about it if it means gaining a player they want.
 

Tugga27

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The washup is 1/West Coast season is in trouble 2/ Gaff probably won't go to Melbourne Demons due to Angus being there 3/ Gaff loses some value to other clubs 4/ Gaff probably has to leave West Coast regardless of if he wants to 5/Andrew Brayshaw has probable ongoing dental issues and 6/ Richmond firms in betting for the flag.
Why would any clubs have lose interest in Gaff?
 

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XXRL

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AFL's darkest day. What a disgraceful trial by media, witch hunt on Andrew Gaff. How anybody can compare that, to the punch by Hall, a trained boxer, is a joke. It is widely acknowledged that it wasn't his intention to hit him in the face. Is he innocent?.... No, but I place him 3rd on the list of responsible parties. Number 1....AFL/Umpires. Why these players are continually allowed to be infringed off the ball is a joke. Don't just look at the 3 seconds of footage continually played by the media. This has been building for 174 games. No wonder players like him, Selwood, Dangerfield, get frustrated eventually. Number 2..... Ross Lyon. Why is he instructing his players to go outside of the rules and infringe players 100m off the ball, in a game he wasn't going to win. That's what he should be explaining to Brayshaws mother. And finally to Johnson. Apparently having no other intention than to take somebody out with a head high bump is only worth a fine. What a joke. Every player that has been suspended recently for making accidental head high contact, should feel ripped off. I hope every team that plays Fremantle for the next 10 years employs these tactics, because the AFL has made it clear as to what is acceptable.
Hello, welcome to BigFooty. I presume your outrage as a neutral Geelong fan caused you to sign up to post a ridiculous tirade about Fremantle.

Great job.

Number 1 - players are bumped and blocked off the ball in every game - only Gaff this season decided to swing a jaw-breaking, teeth-destroying haymaker.
Number 2 - How the **** do you know what Ross Lyon does or doesn't 'instruct'. Ridiculous comment.
Number 3 - I thought Johnson would've got a week.
 

Dockerjonz

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AFL's darkest day. What a disgraceful trial by media, witch hunt on Andrew Gaff. How anybody can compare that, to the punch by Hall, a trained boxer, is a joke. It is widely acknowledged that it wasn't his intention to hit him in the face. Is he innocent?.... No, but I place him 3rd on the list of responsible parties. Number 1....AFL/Umpires. Why these players are continually allowed to be infringed off the ball is a joke. Don't just look at the 3 seconds of footage continually played by the media. This has been building for 174 games. No wonder players like him, Selwood, Dangerfield, get frustrated eventually. Number 2..... Ross Lyon. Why is he instructing his players to go outside of the rules and infringe players 100m off the ball, in a game he wasn't going to win. That's what he should be explaining to Brayshaws mother. And finally to Johnson. Apparently having no other intention than to take somebody out with a head high bump is only worth a fine. What a joke. Every player that has been suspended recently for making accidental head high contact, should feel ripped off. I hope every team that plays Fremantle for the next 10 years employs these tactics, because the AFL has made it clear as to what is acceptable.
LOL you've only now realised what a joke of a system we have in the AFL after all these years of inconsistent judgments. The trial by media of Nhyuis on Gray was worse-made it sound like Nhyuis wanted to put Gray 6 foot under the new stadium with Gray's noggin as the shovel
 
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Not Gaff or anyone else speaking on behalf of the WCE said he didn't mean to hit him. What Gaff said is he meant to hit him in the chest. Even Brayshaw's dad spoke about his son lowering his center of gravity so the punch hit his face not his chest. One quote from Brayshaw's dad - “None of us have any interest whatsoever in anything other than what happened tonight. It is a rotten bit of luck — and personally I am absolutely convinced he meant to give him a good whack in the chest.”
And on the AFL web site -
Mark Brayshaw also opened up about the relationship between Gaff and his other son Hamish, who are teammates at West Coast.
"The other dimension of this is my other son, Hamish," he said.
"He gave me a lift home from the ground. By the time we got home, we had analysed (the incident) and he had some footage.
"You can actually see my Andrew spread his legs a little bit and lower his centre of gravity.
"Hamish said to me, Andrew Gaff is one of his best mates, he is just the most delightful bloke you've ever met.
"My Andrew has inadvertently has lowered his centre of gravity and a chest punch has become a face punch.

The person at the tribunal suggesting he meant to hit him in the face would have been the AFL counsel, certainly not Gaff or his counsel. It seems the people closest to the issue can think rationally, while people who have nothing more than an opinion are experts on what Gaff really intended.

The suspension is fair because no one should be throwing punches of any description at anyone on the field, but to suggest he meant to hit him in the face lacks foundation.
The fact you throw a punch with that much force that you don't know where its going to land is an issue in itself, and this is overlooking that most football clubs include a boxing program as part of their training where players hit punches on a moving target at high velocity.

Where did the cricketer Phil Hughes get hit?
 

Nolo180

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AFL's darkest day. What a disgraceful trial by media, witch hunt on Andrew Gaff. How anybody can compare that, to the punch by Hall, a trained boxer, is a joke. It is widely acknowledged that it wasn't his intention to hit him in the face. Is he innocent?.... No, but I place him 3rd on the list of responsible parties. Number 1....AFL/Umpires. Why these players are continually allowed to be infringed off the ball is a joke. Don't just look at the 3 seconds of footage continually played by the media. This has been building for 174 games. No wonder players like him, Selwood, Dangerfield, get frustrated eventually. Number 2..... Ross Lyon. Why is he instructing his players to go outside of the rules and infringe players 100m off the ball, in a game he wasn't going to win. That's what he should be explaining to Brayshaws mother. And finally to Johnson. Apparently having no other intention than to take somebody out with a head high bump is only worth a fine. What a joke. Every player that has been suspended recently for making accidental head high contact, should feel ripped off. I hope every team that plays Fremantle for the next 10 years employs these tactics, because the AFL has made it clear as to what is acceptable.
Ok u can use ur regular account now. Lol.


LOL you've only now realised what a joke of a system we have in the AFL after all these years of inconsistent judgments. The trial by media of Nhyuis on Gray was worse-made it sound like Nhyuis wanted to put Gray 6 foot under the new stadium with Gray's noggin as the shovel
Atleast Nhyuis had the decency to accept the penalty instead of trying to defend it. I can forgive Gaff but I have utter contempt for the way WC have handled themselves since the incident. Finally trying to defend his actions as a wayward body shot was just the nail in the coffin (Plea for 3 weeks lol). It's embarrassing.
 

frenchconnection

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You wrote ""I wasn't necessarily blaming the umpires but just pointing out if they had payed free kicks for any illegal tactics then maybe this incident could have been avoided".

Maybe I've misunderstood. What do you mean by this?
What I'm saying is the whole game needs addressing which is what some in the media are also saying.
If free kicks were awarded when any player/s are doing illegal acts off the ball, eg any kind of punch to the belly, niggling OUT OF PLAY then perhaps these kind of instances could be avoided -eg Gaff even admitted that he punched Brayshaw in the belly region not long before, then Gaff should have been penalised for this. This has been happening a lot off the ball since they made jumper punches illegal. It should be the same for any player from any team who does any illegal act off the ball. The AFL have been very slow in addressing this even though it has been discussed numerous times over the years. It's supposed to be a football match and let the best player win. All this impeding off the ball just has to stop. During play - okay, but just not off the ball.
Eg there have been cases of a forward attempting to go for the mark (and this is during play) and gets impeded off the ball then a free kick is awarded, so a similar thing should happen no matter where on the ground this occurs. After a few free kicks are awarded would think the players would soon learn, otherwise it's only time before a similar action could occur again which has happened over the years from time to time unfortunately.
It's all up to the AFL of course - not holding my breath though!
 
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FreoMonocle

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You get half marks and half fail there frenchconnection.

Illegal acts off the ball, no. All illegal acts...

As for impeding the other player, mate it is game on. Or should we remove all defenders and just have forwards only on each side of the ground? Tackling someone is impeding them, blocking for you team mate with the ball is impeding, Ruckmen trying to get in position and turn their back to the other ruckmen so they can't get to the ball. Impeding the other player doesn't matter if it's on or off the ball, it is a rubbish suggestion, this game is about you overcoming the opposition and getting the ball through the sticks at the end, it's not my turn, your turn like basketball is. Niggling is also fine, this is a mental game as much as it is a physical one, it is only an issue when you go beyond the rules, otherwise, game on.

Besides the narrative is, if Brayshaw didn't do the niggling and prevent him getting to the ball, all would be fine. Where is any record of a penalty that should have been awarded against him? More critically, Gaff himself said that he had already punched Brayshaw off the ball not long before - where no ump can see it and unless Brayshaw reports it (you don't dob, it's all supposed to stay on the field) he just get's away with it until he does something batshit stupid and hits him hard enough and in a place that will put him down - as he did.

As Gaff has self reported about his second incident, the earlier punch to the games authorities, where is the infraction for this? That should be another 1 or 2 weeks on a separate charge, but the whole AFL has shut down the narrative and moving on, coz Gaff is a good bloke, how he must be suffering etc - and while those things are true, the main point at the moment is not his "good career" but his "bad career" where he just hospitalised someone and his only punishment is that he doesn't play 24 hours of football instead of having costs awarded him at the least (and Brayshaws medical costs are going to be significant) and the 8 weeks penalty served as community service or similar.
 

FreoMonocle

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I listened to the interview. Genuine, no fluff, no hosing anything down.

He’s just more level headed than many supporters and media commentators it seems.
If it was a stranger outside a nightclub punching his son, Marks words would have been different, so yes, he was hosing it down.

So, if you had a family member or friend who had been snotted outside of a nightclub and they are eating liquids through a straw... Are we supposed to get all mushy inside for the perpetrator because they are otherwise a good bloke and "oh their poor mums"? This is what Mark has done.

The only difference here, is that it's on the grass of a footy field. He didn't have his perceptions clouded by alcohol or drugs yet he squared up, put his arm on the shoulder to hold his victim in place and snotted him with all his force. Gaff hopefully has another 70 years of being a good bloke, but in terms of this incident he is not one, he snotted him and ran off, hospitalising someone in the process and he should be facing the music for this punch - not celebrated as a good bloke.

The whole industry is diminishing his action with the good bloke routine and it is wrong, you have to answer for what you do. Sometimes you get a brownlow because what you've done is excellent, other times you should be paying your victims expenses and at the least doing a lot of community service as atonement because what you have done is bad.
 
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Besides the narrative is, if Brayshaw didn't do the niggling and prevent him getting to the ball, all would be fine.
Whose narrative? I haven't heard that narrative at all. The prevailing narrative to me appears to be Gaff did the wrong thing and he's been punished for it.

As Gaff has self reported about his second incident, the earlier punch to the games authorities, where is the infraction for this?
It's not against the rules to punch at the moment. It'd be deemed insufficient force.

That should be another 1 or 2 weeks on a separate charge, but the whole AFL has shut down the narrative
Another narrative? How many are there?

his only punishment is that he doesn't play 24 hours of football instead of having costs awarded him at the least (and Brayshaws medical costs are going to be significant) and the 8 weeks penalty served as community service or similar.
It's interesting you say 24 hours of football in an attempt to make it sound like 8 weeks is nothing and I'd suggest his punishment will actually be far greater than that in having to live with and being known for what he's done for the rest of his life. I'm also pretty sure the club will be paying the medical expenses not the Brayshaw family so any talk of 'awarding costs' is just hysterical nonsense.
 

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I agree, the blocking and niggle is and always should IMO be part of the game. Sometimes it may be technically illegal and if seen can be paid a free kick. However most umpires turn a blind eye to these sorts of tactics unless they cross the line.
To date, the response to these sorts of tactics have been return of serve via a few wacks to the arms, chest of guts to make the tagger earn it. Now these things have been going on for a long long time without any indication by the AFL that you will get a suspension. Unless you get them in the breadbasket and they drop or of course the head, this has been fair play as far as the AFL is concerned. I dont know if anyone has seen the earlier whack that Gaff gave Brayshaw? I haven't and am not aware of any footage. However it would probably be fair to assume it was one of those to the arms or chest that I just described. Obviously the AFL have probably had a look at it and decided the same- I guess we wont really know unless someone comes up with the footage.
So this was the thing that somewhat gated with me and many others, is that this action has essentially been given the green light by the AFL- we see it many times every week. Most pundits with a fairly unbiased view (even some with a biased view such as Brayshaw's dad) tend to agree that Gaffs intent was to do the same although perhaps a bit harder this time as the first one didn't stop him. We all know the unfortunate outcome.
So I think to prevent this happening in the future, giving Gaff an over the top ban would not have achieved any more than the 8 weeks he copped- probably a reasonable outcome. What will more likely prevent this occurring again is to have a no tolerance policy on deliberate (obviously got to allow for accidental spoils etc) hitting with a clenched fist- anywhere on the body. 1 week for striking regardless of where and how hard, with worse cases going up from there in line with the normal assessment. More than likely if this had been implemented earlier then the whole sorry saga would not have played out. Guys will just need to find other methods to deal with the niggle.
 

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Hello, welcome to BigFooty. I presume your outrage as a neutral Geelong fan caused you to sign up to post a ridiculous tirade about Fremantle.

Great job.

Number 1 - players are bumped and blocked off the ball in every game - only Gaff this season decided to swing a jaw-breaking, teeth-destroying haymaker.
Number 2 - How the **** do you know what Ross Lyon does or doesn't 'instruct'. Ridiculous comment.
Number 3 - I thought Johnson would've got a week.
Players have commented that there was no such instruction from Lyon ,According to the report i heard Lyon did not mention the hit at the 3/4 time break. Some players knew about it and the opposite instructions were given to them .Exact words verbatim "don't do anything that will bring you into disrepute".
 

Fyfster

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I like the idea of zero tolerance for punches fullstop, no matter how hard or what damage occurs.
Absolutely if all clenched fist punches copped a penalty then Gaff more than likely would not have thrown any punch. Why players are allowed to throw clenched fist punches in a game of footy baffles me. You may have some defence for having a clenched fist in a ball contest where your trying to punch the ball away .
But 30 mtrs off the ball ?
 

Dogs_R_Us

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Players have commented that there was no such instruction from Lyon ,According to the report i heard Lyon did not mention the hit at the 3/4 time break. Some players knew about it and the opposite instructions were given to them .Exact words verbatim "don't do anything that will bring you into disrepute".
Nick Riewoldt on 360 last night, and knows RL well, said he could lip-read what he said to Ballantyne, which was "No punching".
 

Monkey King

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If it was a stranger outside a nightclub punching his son, Marks words would have been different, so yes, he was hosing it down.
What are you even talking about? It didn’t happen outside a nightclub. It happened on a football field.

This is you hosing it up, not papi Brayshaw hosing it down. He’s just got a more accurate perspective than you.
 
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