Andrew Gaff hit on Brayshaw

Andrew Gaff's penalty will be...


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Scotland

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Hypothetical #1: Gaff (or Bugg, Houli - whoever) is reported for something that is referred to the tribunal in a year or two year's time. Does 'character' then come into it? People were adamant that for all the character references in the world Gaff should be punished for the action (fair enough) but if it's another similar or even completely different but serious action?

Hypothetical #2: Jeremy Cameron got 5 weeks for his hit on Harris Andrews and 4 for Rhys Mathieson the other year (WTF did the Lions do?). He also copped a week for Rough(ead) conduct a few years ago. That takes his tally up to 10 weeks, so he should have received an official warning that he risks deregistration if he is suspended again. If we see another hit like the one on Harris Andrews the lynch mob will be out and any suspension higher than 5 weeks would tip him into 16 week territory. Where would the AFL fall on this? Do they try and sell that 5 weeks is enough and he's not a repeat offender despite repeatedly offending, or do they deregister one of their expansion club superstars?
 

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FreoMonocle

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What are you even talking about? It didn’t happen outside a nightclub. It happened on a football field.

This is you hosing it up, not papi Brayshaw hosing it down. He’s just got a more accurate perspective than you.
Go back and watch the video. He squared up to brayshaw, put his arm on his shoulder to try and keep him in place and whacked him with as much force as he could. It is no different to being whacked outside of a nightclub - except he get's some magical exemption because he is standing on the lawn of a footy oval.

And for perspective, this was the previous week. Pretty well the same act, belted this kid except we don't have a good guy narative happening for the aggressor (coz he aint), also the aggressor has a mother - where is the sympathy for her? Same action and it has charges applied, made somewhat worse because the tribunal only gave him a 3 week suspension.
https://www.standard.net.au/story/5560285/footballer-on-parole-leaves-teen-with-broken-jaw/

This incident was a month ago. A teenage girl got punched 10 times on the footy field, could end up permanently blind in one eye and has spinal damage. The girl assaulting is only 13 and is going through the bail process - banned in this time from footy. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cr...ing-perth-junior-football-match-ng-b88920581z

These 2 up the ante somewhat in that in the one instance it's a "bad bloke" laying a punch. The one with the girl, is someone going over the top. But mate, it's all on a footy field, let's all just shake hands and have a beer and a laugh about it in the shed after?
 

FreoMonocle

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It's interesting you say 24 hours of football in an attempt to make it sound like 8 weeks is nothing and I'd suggest his punishment will actually be far greater than that in having to live with and being known for what he's done for the rest of his life. I'm also pretty sure the club will be paying the medical expenses not the Brayshaw family so any talk of 'awarding costs' is just hysterical nonsense.
People go to jail, pay damages, lose their career, forever more have to state their criminal conviction in job applications, visa applications, working with children checks for assault causing grievous bodily injury. Additionally, they have to "live with and being known for what he's done for the rest of his life" - this last little bit is not a part of the punishment of the act, it is just a consequence of your stuff up.
 

Scotland

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People go to jail, pay damages, lose their career, forever more have to state their criminal conviction in job applications, visa applications, working with children checks for assault causing grievous bodily injury. Additionally, they have to "live with and being known for what he's done for the rest of his life" - this last little bit is not a part of the punishment of the act, it is just a consequence of your stuff up.
Much like footy isn't played on paper it's also not played 'on the street'.

How many players in the AFL have thrown punches this year? 5? 10? 20? More? If someone is invading my personal space on the train and I belt them in the stomach or kidneys is that OK? I wouldn't have thought so. Probably better for them than a left hook to the jaw or a flying elbow but these are things you see on the footy field and not generally in day to day life.

The tribunal exists for a reason. If people would prefer to see punches and elbows and high bumps etc. scrutinised by police instead then that conversation can be had, but it's a bit rich to have a system in place to deal with such acts in an AFL environment and then pick and choose when it should be circumvented. I mean if a player brings a gun or a knife onto the field or something then sure, but should every player involved in the 2004 Hawks/Bombers brawl be charged with affray? Because on the street that is a distinct possibility.

I 100% agree with people that say if Andrew Gaff punched Andrew Brayshaw in a pub or a local park or whatever he'd be in deep poop but the reality is so would Jeremy Cameron and so would Jordan Lewis and so would plenty of players before them.

Another aspect to consider is how the Australian justice system functions. Can you imagine the uproar if Andrew Gaff was charged under the criminal code, released on bail (which he would be) and then given a non-custodial sentence with a good behaviour bond? People would be crying out that the justice system is inadequate and he should be banned by the AFL anyway. But yes with a criminal conviction he'd have difficulty traveling abroad, getting a WCC etc.
 
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Hello, welcome to BigFooty. I presume your outrage as a neutral Geelong fan caused you to sign up to post a ridiculous tirade about Fremantle.

Great job.

Number 1 - players are bumped and blocked off the ball in every game - only Gaff this season decided to swing a jaw-breaking, teeth-destroying haymaker.
Number 2 - How the **** do you know what Ross Lyon does or doesn't 'instruct'. Ridiculous comment.
Number 3 - I thought Johnson would've got a week.

Are you presuming I am an Eagles fan? It's not only Eagles fans that don't like the dockers. Maybe if the dockers realise that they have to beat more than just one team in the competition, they may one day have some success. Hilarious watching the build- up for the DERBY.... Just a game.
1 - Didn't your own captain elbow someone in the face this year because he didn't like the treatment he was getting? May have been last year. Just lucky to not do major damage. Houli had the potential to do as much damage, just lucky.
2 - My mistake, I thought Ross was the coach. Must be just the bloke who does the gags for the media or do the players just run around and do what ever they like? Very naïve if you think targeting Gaff, and someone else every week, is not a pre- determined plan.
3 - 1 week? Still think everyone who has got the same or more for accidental head high contact, or accidental injury with too rough of a tackle, should feel ripped off.
 

mick0

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incidents occur , Gaff I believe was going for a chest punch and then run off, but we know that he connected with Brayshaws jaw, is (?) the condemnation about the contact or the injury to Brayshaw as bad as we have seen in the past, I be leave the incident with docker Alax Silvagni had more potential for injury ,was also of the ball just lucky where it connected it did not do more damage (potential for more),where was the trial by media , hate by opposition supporters to the extent of whats on now, easily a broken jaw out of this but no media outburst , Dockers are appalled at the cheering of Gaff at the ground - were you there- as a Docker supporter said as they left the ground they did not see the incident on the big screen (was not replayed) along with everyone else , all eagles supporters saw was Gaff being targeted and now old news

---
WEST Coast forward Jamie Cripps has a suspected fractured jaw as a result of Alex Silvagni's off-the-ball elbow, but coach Adam Simpson said he deliberately did not watch a replay of the incident to avoid making comment.

Silvagni was reported during the second term of Sunday's Western Derby for a crude hit that occurred 70m off the ball.

PS Simson under control of his emotions was Lyon
 

Monkey King

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Go back and watch the video. He squared up to brayshaw, put his arm on his shoulder to try and keep him in place and whacked him with as much force as he could. It is no different to being whacked outside of a nightclub - except he get's some magical exemption because he is standing on the lawn of a footy oval.
Yeah mate, all you’re really doing here is demonstrating what I’ve been saying, papi Brayshaw was very level headed, kept the incident in perspective and saw the bigger picture for all involved, which is impressive for someone so deeply involved, while so many peripheral to the incident blow it out of proportion.
 

XXRL

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Are you presuming I am an Eagles fan? It's not only Eagles fans that don't like the dockers. Maybe if the dockers realise that they have to beat more than just one team in the competition, they may one day have some success. Hilarious watching the build- up for the DERBY.... Just a game.
1 - Didn't your own captain elbow someone in the face this year because he didn't like the treatment he was getting? May have been last year. Just lucky to not do major damage. Houli had the potential to do as much damage, just lucky.
2 - My mistake, I thought Ross was the coach. Must be just the bloke who does the gags for the media or do the players just run around and do what ever they like? Very naïve if you think targeting Gaff, and someone else every week, is not a pre- determined plan.
3 - 1 week? Still think everyone who has got the same or more for accidental head high contact, or accidental injury with too rough of a tackle, should feel ripped off.
Just welcoming you to bigfooty. You could be an Eagles fan - you post like one.
  1. Fyfe got suspended this year but it wasn't anything to do with frustration for being targeted.
  2. Sick of people trying to excuse extreme violence with provocation as an excuse. There's no excuse.
  3. Well he got a fine, so the MRO ruled on it. I thought it could've easily been a week, but there you go.
 

FreoMonocle

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Yeah mate, all you’re really doing here is demonstrating what I’ve been saying, papi Brayshaw was very level headed, kept the incident in perspective and saw the bigger picture for all involved, which is impressive for someone so deeply involved, while so many peripheral to the incident blow it out of proportion.
Except it is not being blown out of proportion, it's being swept under the rug.

This incident here makes the 4th teenager with serious damage to the head in 6 weeks from being punched on the footy field, this is another broken jaw. I haven't gone looking for any of these, so hopefully there aren't any others but there could be.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...er-punch-which-broke-jaw-20180809-p4zwli.html

Also in that article, a whole footy team in Dandenong is forfeiting the last 2 matches due to a few too many incidences, was a club in Kelmscott as well that I understand closed down for a while for the same reasons (the one that Nisbett himself raved against after his nephew had his jaw broken).


So plenty of shit is going down in the lower leagues, but what do they see from the lower leagues? Gaff has his team rally around him, cheered off the ground and get's through this with a good guy narrative, his penalty for Assault causing grievous bodily harm is to not play 24 hours of football. The punishment does not fit the crime, it is highly visible and makes a crap statement particularly given the violence in lower leagues.

Maybe, the tribunal should be giving him 8 weeks of dedicated community service (8x36 hours) with no time back at the club in that time and a hefty fine with the proceeds going to the one punch campaign or similar - that would be closer to what a magistrate would be giving (Jail is not the first option by the magistrate unless the other guy was killed or there was a prior history), 24 hours of not playing footy is total and pure bullshit for what was a deliberate hit causing so much damage.

Given that undercurrent of violence in the lower league, their should be no public rallying by the industry around Gaff. This has turned in many ways into a case of "Poor Gaff" - but he is the aggressor in this. Sure, he is a good guy, I hope he is for another 70 years, he doesn't need to be personally pilloried - but the act does and the "Poor Gaff" narrative drowns out the severity of the act.
 

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FreoMonocle

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Another aspect to consider is how the Australian justice system functions. Can you imagine the uproar if Andrew Gaff was charged under the criminal code, released on bail (which he would be) and then given a non-custodial sentence with a good behaviour bond? People would be crying out that the justice system is inadequate and he should be banned by the AFL anyway. But yes with a criminal conviction he'd have difficulty traveling abroad, getting a WCC etc.
I'm perfectly fine with someone breaking the criminal code having to face up to a magistrate, it is frankly bizarre that it doesn't happen just because it's on the footy field. If the sentencing is not deemed suitable, it is also not going to be suitable for a similar act on the other side of the fence and would need to be looked at by parliament.
 

greatwhiteshark

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Except it is not being blown out of proportion, it's being swept under the rug.

This incident here makes the 4th teenager with serious damage to the head in 6 weeks from being punched on the footy field, this is another broken jaw. I haven't gone looking for any of these, so hopefully there aren't any others but there could be.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...er-punch-which-broke-jaw-20180809-p4zwli.html

Also in that article, a whole footy team in Dandenong is forfeiting the last 2 matches due to a few too many incidences, was a club in Kelmscott as well that I understand closed down for a while for the same reasons (the one that Nisbett himself raved against after his nephew had his jaw broken).


So plenty of shit is going down in the lower leagues, but what do they see from the lower leagues? Gaff has his team rally around him, cheered off the ground and get's through this with a good guy narrative, his penalty for Assault causing grievous bodily harm is to not play 24 hours of football. The punishment does not fit the crime, it is highly visible and makes a crap statement particularly given the violence in lower leagues.

Maybe, the tribunal should be giving him 8 weeks of dedicated community service (8x36 hours) with no time back at the club in that time and a hefty fine with the proceeds going to the one punch campaign or similar - that would be closer to what a magistrate would be giving (Jail is not the first option by the magistrate unless the other guy was killed or there was a prior history), 24 hours of not playing footy is total and pure bullshit for what was a deliberate hit causing so much damage.

Given that undercurrent of violence in the lower league, their should be no public rallying by the industry around Gaff. This has turned in many ways into a case of "Poor Gaff" - but he is the aggressor in this. Sure, he is a good guy, I hope he is for another 70 years, he doesn't need to be personally pilloried - but the act does and the "Poor Gaff" narrative drowns out the severity of the act.
In lower leagues there is always a few mugs that do these things and if you think bigger penalties at the top will equate to these things not happening by these mugs in lower leagues then you are wrong. It will have no impact on these idiots that do it. I have seen a handful of bad incidents in 30 years in the amateurs and generally the bad ones are from the very low levels in amateurs.
The Gaff penalty is a pretty big statement but it will have zero impact on footballers at lower levels.
It will happen again at AFL level.
I like your points that Gaff maybe could of got some community service etc but the AFL is a bit of a closed society.
In a utopia none of these things would ever happen, but in real life every human is different and every now and again some people do very stupid things. There is nothing that can ever be done to stop that.
 

FreoMonocle

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Drawing comparisons to a nightclub assault is blowing it out of proportion and if that’s your baseline, it’s no wonder you think papi Brayshaw was hosing it down.
It is illegal on both sides of the boundary fence at a footy oval to assault someone and cause grievous bodily harm.

So, how is it different?
 

Monkey King

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It is illegal on both sides of the boundary fence at a footy oval to assault someone and cause grievous bodily harm.

So, how is it different?
Because swinging an arm into an opponent’s chest on the footy field is an oft performed action that, given the lack of penalty, seemed a fairly accepted practice up to this point. Try the same thing among the general public however and you’ll be charged with assault. The difference is as obvious as it is staggering.
 

FreoMonocle

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Of course you have a point which is why the league should act swiftly and decisively
Aye.

If sport wants to continue applying sanctions instead of the court for these sorts of things, it needs to make the sentencing more in line with real world sentencing. Minus the jails, minus the criminal conviction because it can't do those. So fines, costs and community service orders instead of not playing 24 hours of football.
 

CazC30

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Aye.

If sport wants to continue applying sanctions instead of the court for these sorts of things, it needs to make the sentencing more in line with real world sentencing. Minus the jails, minus the criminal conviction because it can't do those. So fines, costs and community service orders instead of not playing 24 hours of football.
Andrew Gaff going to speak to nuns on the merits of football in today's society for six months.... Or, cleaning the bins at the local hospital for liposuction... ?
 

FreoMonocle

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Because swinging an arm into an opponent’s chest on the footy field is an oft performed action that, given the lack of penalty, seemed a fairly accepted practice up to this point. Try the same thing among the general public however and you’ll be charged with assault. The difference is as obvious as it is staggering.
A very small point that I'm sure is easy to overlook... Gaff didn't hit Brayshaws chest, he hit his face and hospitalised him.

Assault at the lower levels of footy does go to court, I don't know of any cases for body punches - but broken jaws and similar often do.

I don't hear of many body punches without damage, out in the real world that get taken to court - but then, it would only be the more salacious ones that make the news I guess (broken heads etc).
 

FreoMonocle

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Andrew Gaff going to speak to nuns on the merits of football in today's society for six months.... Or, cleaning the bins at the local hospital for liposuction... ?
It would be unfair to make the hospital employees empty out those yucky liposuction bins and sometimes there just aren't enough interns, which is where the occasional sod with a community service order comes in handy ;)
 

Borisdog

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I genuinely believe that Umpiring has a role to play in these type of incidents. The amount of off-the ball niggle, pushing, bumping, jumper punching and associated shit that goes unpunished must surely frustrate even the most level headed players.

Solution - Use your whistle umps. Stop the coaching, all this "No holding, no blocking" from the umpires before they bounce or throw it in just shits me.

Stamp out all that niggle and maybe, just maybe some of these acts of random idiot violence might not occur on the field.

I reckon it's absolutely inevitable that someone, somewhere will lash out when pushed and pushed and pushed. Now I'm not saying Gaff was or wasn't, nor am I saying he has an excuse for what he did. What I am saying is that I'd be surprised if incidents like this would happen if the umpires policed the off the ball stuff that, in my opinion, they aren't doing now.
 

SloppyJoe

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I genuinely believe that Umpiring has a role to play in these type of incidents. The amount of off-the ball niggle, pushing, bumping, jumper punching and associated shit that goes unpunished must surely frustrate even the most level headed players.

Solution - Use your whistle umps. Stop the coaching, all this "No holding, no blocking" from the umpires before they bounce or throw it in just shits me.

Stamp out all that niggle and maybe, just maybe some of these acts of random idiot violence might not occur on the field.

I reckon it's absolutely inevitable that someone, somewhere will lash out when pushed and pushed and pushed. Now I'm not saying Gaff was or wasn't, nor am I saying he has an excuse for what he did. What I am saying is that I'd be surprised if incidents like this would happen if the umpires policed the off the ball stuff that, in my opinion, they aren't doing now.
Yeah, it's absolutely no excuse, but if someone like Gaff (the last guy in our side I'd pick to belt someone before last week) is capable of responding in this way due to close checking, whether he was aiming for the chest or not, makes me think that anyone could be pushed to do it.

It needs to be a combined effort of closer umpire monitoring and giving frees for off the ball checking (scragging, holding, bumping to block runs etc) and punishing any type of strike with at least a week off.
 
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