Society/Culture Andrew Thorburn - Controversial appointment as Essendon CEO. Broader discussion not for the AFL board..

[gouki88]

I hope nobody wasted as much time reading that as you did writing it. Even scrolling past it took ages.

I am filled with regret.

 

[owen87]

The validity of the bible and God as the creator, we can be sure of.

I read this far, realised you had already made a statement you couldn't support, then for some silly reason continued on.

What a worthless load of nonsense. Believe what you want, but let's not pretend the Bible, or the Old Testament, are factual, scientific documents.

You have 'faith' that God is real, because you can't prove it. If your 'proof' is a book that someone has to believe in to accept as proof, then you have no proof.

Meanwhile, I can demonstrate gravity to someone whether they have faith in it or not.

 

[PrinceCharles]

I read this far, realised you had already made a statement you couldn't support, then for some silly reason continued on.

What a worthless load of nonsense. Believe what you want, but let's not pretend the Bible, or the Old Testament, are factual, scientific documents.

You have 'faith' that God is real, because you can't prove it. If your 'proof' is a book that someone has to believe in to accept as proof, then you have no proof.

Meanwhile, I can demonstrate gravity to someone whether they have faith in it or not.

I've never seen someone so brainwashed actually attempt to explain their thought process in such depth, it's fascinating and also kinda scary at the same time as it makes you wonder how it impacts their real world decisions.

 

[owen87]

The bible knows everything about the world before we did, and that is because the author is the creator of it all, and knows all.

Roylion might have some thoughts on this pearler.

 

[Gough]

I've never seen someone so brainwashed actually attempt to explain their thought process in such depth, it's fascinating and also kinda scary at the same time as it makes you wonder how it impacts their real world decisions.

It's the great thing about being a christian, your holy book can mean everything and nothing. You can pluck the parts you like, put your own spin on them and ignore the bits you don't.

 

[Roylion]

Roylion might have some thoughts on this pearler.

All my thoughts are to be located here in this thread.

GOTHELIONS16 is quite welcome to post there and I'm happy to explain to him how the Bible was authored and constructed. Genesis was definitely not written in 1400 BC for example.

 

[SleepingGiant]

Still no logical response yet on why Islamic people in the AFL or NRL do not get denounced for anti gay behaviour yet white/Christian people do? Either Andrew Thorburn gets a big lawsuit cheque or Houli gets cancelled. Which one? Same with female AFLW players of Islamic faith? Which one?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Still no logical response yet on why Islamic people in the AFL or NRL do not get denounced for anti gay behaviour yet white/Christian people do? Either Andrew Thorburn gets a big lawsuit cheque or Houli gets cancelled. Which one? Same with female AFLW players of Islamic faith? Which one?

Thorburn is an extremist christian.

Not all muslims are extremists.

I hope this helps, because it seems you are struggling for relevance. Your whataboutism is ludicrous.

 

[gouki88]

Still no logical response yet on why Islamic people in the AFL or NRL do not get denounced for anti gay behaviour yet white/Christian people do? Either Andrew Thorburn gets a big lawsuit cheque or Houli gets cancelled. Which one? Same with female AFLW players of Islamic faith? Which one?

There have been literally dozens of responses to this very question

 

[owen87]

There have been literally dozens of responses to this very question

Yes but if he refuses to acknowledge the existence of those posts, no logical response has been provided.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

Wait how did you arrive at that conclusion?

The sun has an orbit I just described as dragging our solar system around the Milky Way. The sun is like a strong man running a course: “Its rising is from one end of the heavens . . . to the other end of them; and there’s nothing hidden from its heat.” The sun is on a course to go through the heavens in a massive orbit. That’s what the Bible says. That’s scientifically accurate and well, well before humans discovered this.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

All my thoughts are to be located here in this thread.

GOTHELIONS16 is quite welcome to post there and I'm happy to explain to him how the Bible was authored and constructed. Genesis was definitely not written in 1400 BC for example.

Whatever year you believe it was written. The books of the Old Testament still shows scientific understanding well before it’s time

 

[owen87]

That’s scientifically accurate

I’m sure we all could have a lot of fun reinterpreting various bible passages to mean anything we want.

That wouldn’t make it scientifically accurate.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

It's the great thing about being a christian, your holy book can mean everything and nothing. You can pluck the parts you like, put your own spin on them and ignore the bits you don't.

A bit like atheists... Not all Christians do this.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

A bit like atheists... Not all Christians do this.

So you are saying that some christians are bad actors?

Yet you still count them among your peers..... interesting.

 

[Roylion]

The books of the Old Testament still shows scientific understanding well before it’s time

No they don't. Scientific discoveries are very rarely "predicted" by the Bible until after science has actually made the discovery. Observations that point to a rounded or spherical Earth pre-date most of the Bible. For example the first of the Greek thinkers that we know of to challenge the flat earth was the 6th century BC Pythagoras. Also experiments performed by the ancient Greeks calculated the curvature of the Earth and estimated its diameter to a reasonable accuracy. Many of the books of the Old Testament appeared in the final form after those discoveries.

I'm happy to go through these here in this thread.

 

[Gethelred]

Still no logical response yet on why Islamic people in the AFL or NRL do not get denounced for anti gay behaviour yet white/Christian people do? Either Andrew Thorburn gets a big lawsuit cheque or Houli gets cancelled. Which one? Same with female AFLW players of Islamic faith? Which one?

This thread is not about Islamic people in the AFL. Further attempts by you or others to try and make it about Islamic people in the AFL will be met with infractions worthy of the Islamaphobia inherent in such an attempted diversion.

 

[Gethelred]

While we're at it...

This thread topic if this thread is also not the Bible, Christianity or other religious discussion.

As Roylion suggests, take all conversation to that end over here:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[raskolnikov]

Yep, and on the other hand. The validity of the bible and God as the creator, we can be sure of.

Genesis was written 1400 BC! Wait, BC! This isn't part of my argument, but BC stands for before Christ. Anyway...

In Saudi Arabia, they are currently building what is to be the tallest building in the world. It’s called the Jeddah Tower. It will have 167 floors and be 1km high. The design of that has to compensate for the movement of the ground, the wind, the air, and all the massive complexity of weight and density in a building over 1km high. They’re on the way to building it. It’ll be four stories higher than another building that’s already finished, that’s 163 floors up. They have to design it with flexibility so it can move slightly. They have to design it to bear all the complexity of the weight and all the systems it contains. They do that with amazing engineering based on fixed laws. If there was any question about the absolute nature of those laws, the whole thing would crumble. And there isn't any question because, everything in the world has fixed laws.

And then theres the complex detail in the reality of the universe. Sitting on your laptops right now, you are 2.5 million km from where you were yesterday. Because our solar system is moving through the universe that fast. The earth spins at a specific tilt on its axis, perfectly designed to get 4 seasons which cause things to grow to feed people. But this also has to contend with the earth spinning at 1,600 km per hour.

Then you add the Earth's orbit, an orbit moving us around the sun going 100,000 kilometres per hour.

So in summary we are:

• spinning at 1,600 km an hour
• moving in an orbit going 100, 000km an hour
• our solar system is orbiting through space at 800,000 km per hour

And then all the galaxies in our neighbourhood are moving as well. NASA says we're all moving toward the Great Attractor, a region in space they say is 150 million light-years away. Where 1 light year equals 6 trillion miles. And they say the great attractor is a mass of one quintillion times greater than that of the Sun. This Great Attractor has a span of 500 million light years, made of visible material and is moving!

The solar system is going at almost 1 million km per hour, and is in an orbit that will take 230 billion years to complete. And yet we are sitting still at our laptops. Because we are moving at the exact same speed as our solar system. The atmosphere has to also move at the exact same speed. A genius must have figured that out!

The human race definitely didn't know this thousands of years ago.

The bible states "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. The sun like a strong man, runs its course. It's rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

SO the bible tells us the Sun runs a course, the orbit dragging our solar system around the Milky Way. The sun is on a course to go through the heavens in a massive orbit.

And then there is the atmoshpere that has to go with us. Now this is significant because if the earth stopped spinning, the atmosphere would keep moving, and it would rip everything off the Earth and the world would be instantaneously incinerated. And this is possible because we don't even know why the earth spins. This is exactly the fear said in the ultimate apocalyptic biohazard of NASA.

Again, what we know now, the bible understood thousands of years ago. 2 Peter 3:7-10 says "But by his word, the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. Do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but all to come to repentance. The day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

This rings true to NASA's grim predictions but try predicting that 2000 years ago

And this is the point. The Bible reflects the understanding of reality, current understanding, well before its time.

First reality: Genesis 1:1 tells you all 5 elements of the universe, the 5 elements of the universe only laid out by Science a century ago. "In the beginning(time), God (force) created (action) the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).

Second reality: The universe must be created by a power greater than itself. It is ludicrous to believe everything rose from something less than itself. The reality is it has to come from a source thats more than it is, and this source had to come from a person. Otherwise, material would need to be eternal, that is material without any information there to make it. We now understand that everything operates by information. Science can never demonstrate that you can have something simple become complex, or something spontaneously occur that reengineers an operating entity without any external information. So where does all this massive universe full of information come from? Every living thing is a complicated machine operated on information. 30 trillion cells in your body. There has to be a source of this information. The all-powerful creator speaks.

Third reality: the Bible knew things about creation that humankind and other religions didn't. The earth is spherical, turning on an axis, suspended in space. The bible knows the earth is sweeping through space in an orbit and rotation. He knows its attached to the Sun, which is running from one end of space to the other. He knows the stars, galaxies and the staggering reaches of space. He knows the cycles of air and water. So he knows chemistry, biology, maths, energy, atomic structure. He knows all because he made it all. So if he wrote a book, if the Creator wrote a book, it would reflect this knowledge. And the Bible does just that!

Other relgions got it wrong!
Hindu: The moon is 50000 leagues higher than the sun and has its own light. The earth is flat and triangular and sits on the heads of countless elephants who produce earthquakes when they shake.

Hindu Upanishad: The sun is the source of all energy in the universe.

Taoists: There are only 13 members of the body through which death can come.

Buddhists: Earthquakes are caused by wind moving water and water moving land.

And if you're not convinced, the bible says in Isaiah 40:26 that it is God who creates the universe; and it says He holds the stars together by His power, and not one of them is missing. This is the first law of thermodynamics, that nothing is ever destroyed.

Then in Ecclesiastes 1:10, 'Is there anything of which one might say, 'See this, it is new?' And the answer follows, "Already it has existed for ages which were before us"
These are by ancient writers of the Bible, thousands of years before the laws of thermodynamics were discovered, affirming the conservation of mass and energy- nothing is ever lost.

And the water cycle is an example of this law. Ecclesiastes 1 says All the rivers flow into the sea yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers flow, there they flow again. Isaiah 55:10 says "For the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth." Then Job 36 speaks of evaporation and condensation: "God draws up the drops of water, they distill rain from the mist, which the clouds pour down, they drip upon man abundantly." The Creator knows the cycle of water.

It was 1500s when Capernicus first presented the idea of a moving earth. It was around that time Galileo and Kepler came with modern astronomy, at the time they thought there were a thousand stars. Well, if they'd just read Genesis theyd know better than that. "I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. Only these days are scientists telling us there are trillions of galaxies. The Creator knew that too, the Bible tells us.

Job talks about the earth turning on its axis, Isaiah speaks of the circle of the earth, not flat!

The bible knows everything about the world before we did, and that is because the author is the creator of it all, and knows all.

That is some weed you're smoking there pal. Where can I get some?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Bill Maher talks about how there used to be thousands of gods but now there is just one.

So being atheist is pretty easy these days because all it takes is believing in one less god.

Plus many parts of the world you no longer get killed for it.

Not sure who copied who